skeptic

le Voyageur; Thanks; Amen.

Right now on eBay there are 8 copies being offered, including one 1944 edition for $12 and "buy it now". 7 of the 8 are the first edition, various printings. Suspect the offerings will continue as people clean out garages, attics, and basements, along with houses of parents who have passed away or are downsizing. Take a look.

Thanks for the additional link info. I am paper collector, and now have one more unusual type to aspire to find, even if it is unlikely. At least I know it exists now. You never know what sort of just shows up somewhere.

Try this; it works for me in Mozilla browser. Tried it in IE, and it did not for some reason. Odd. Has the earlier late 40's to late 50's program; also a couple of patches from the new program from late 50's. Probably with a bit of digging, you can find some other representations. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826/explorers.html

Yes, the first edition, the old dirt brown cover, is definitely the best. Minor correction; the first edition was in 1944, with subsequent printings almost every year from there on. The earliest has a pebbled type surface and a copyright date of 1944. There is a second printing in 1944 that does not have the pebbled surface. Also was a public copy of the 3rd edition that was sold in bookstores. Would like to see that happen again. I still look for copies of the first issue to give to assistants and friends, as I do with the classic Rockwell Scoutmaster HB. Also look for BSHB's from adult youth periods for thank yous. Many have lost their original books, and it seems appreciated.

In regard to Boys' Life, it is definitely read by kids in the schools that have them in their library. National should seriously consider finding a way to get it into every school in the country. And that would be both Cub and Boy Scout printings in the elementary schools, since that is the cross over level. I donate old copies to various schools in which I sub, and the librarians always say they wish they had them regularly, and more of them. One school says that more than once she has had keep the pieces for the boys to read; and she also said a lot of girls like them too. I also occasionally talk a bit about some outing I was on with my troop, and I always have a number of boys show serious interest, if it is outdoors; and even service that they see as fun and interesting, such as flags at Memorial Day. Now, if they put out a contact piece as part of the mag itself with the recruiting link for on-line, and maybe an 800 type number for local council, that would really be a good tool it seems to me.

Well, until after WWII scouts were registered as First Class or below, never the other "higher" ranks. If they were Star, Life, or even Eagle, they were just First Class with merit badges. The name "First Class" is specifically referring to being the best, as having the epitome of scouting skills. Unless somehow getting older takes away the earning of the other ranks, it would seem to me to be simply logic that if once an Eagle, always an Eagle would apply similarly to the ranks earned prior to. But of course that is just my opinion.

Yep; that would be accurate.

Okay Stosh; since I am in California and unlikely to have the chance, maybe you can give me the recipe and I can make my own. Of course it likely will not measure up to yours at first, but maybe with practice. I made sweet chili at Camporee using four different beans,crushed tomatoes Italian style, Mexican tomatoes, fresh onions, pre-cooked sirloin to get out the grease, garlic, and would you believe powdered hot chocolate. The kids ate every morsel (no plates with half left), and the adults said it was some of the best they ever had. I normally use molasses, but forgot to bring with. Had read somewhere about chocolate, and gave it a try. No cobbler though, as we are already on fire restriction here, and we could not even have charcoal, except in a large open area with a cement slab that was a quarter mile away. They used it for Dutch oven contest and string burning. Did the beans in a number 12 on a large Coleman single burner so I could stay in the site.

Because we eventually talk about pie, and other delectable's.

Stop; I need to try to reach the upper limit of my weight range.

While the outdoor material has something to do with skills, it is more focused on how to run things, the ins and outs of a weekend in the outdoors with kids. If it is too basic for you, then you can simply become the mentor for those for whom it is all new or strange, just like a senior scout. Also, you many be surprised; someone may introduce you to something new, or a different, possibly better way to do something. Good luck. Scout is Outing.

Ed; it is from a late nineteenth century version of the Vulgate bible, which predates basically the King James version. It has a number of Old Testament books not included in the more familiar version with which most of us are familiar. It also has slight variations in the New Testament. You can find a number of substantial descriptions by Googling.

Don't forget the district award of merit; most districts also have recognition awards and certificates at all levels, they just do not have a square knot. It has always seemed to me that cubbing has too many of them, though I know they serve a purpose. At one time, all volunteers were pretty much on the same level, and the few awards just used devices to distinguish them. In some ways, it would be good to revert back, but realistically it could not happen without real confusion and even upset people. Find a way, if only on the troop level. I have given old skill awards to leaders for camping contributions, and one got an old camping meritbadge on a magnet.

Not the same thing Pack; she had no right to ask you in the first place, as it has nothing to do with voter registration. So, no it was not wrong that she had to register you. It is another thing to fire, or threaten to fire someone when you change the rules and they will be forced to go against their personal beliefs for some reason.

So, when the court said Gays could marry anyway in California, and the county clerk suddenly found themselves going against their beliefs, it was okay to tell them to give a license or be fired? How is that right? As long as there are others who can perform the task without it infringing on their beliefs, the individual for whom it is a problem should simply be able to refer them. In regard to medical procedures, I doubt there are many doctors who would not over-ride their normal objections if it was truly life or death at the moment. But they might choose to refer a patient to some other physician in non emergency situations which are matters of choice.

Nolesrule: While I do not countenance the comments of this thread's beginning, I feel you need to know the Vulgate is an authentic text, and there are numerous variations known. While most of us were raised with the more or less standard King James Version, it is nowhere nearly the oldest translations of the texts. And various biblical scholars continue today to reinterpret parts of the material, attempting to go back as early as possible. It will always have variations, and often major errors; but the best are clearly valid. Still, the basic material is fairly consistent for the most part. No matter which biblical text you may choose, there will always be cogent versions that challenge the meanings and interpretations. How can it be otherwise, with 2 centuries and 4 major languages, possibly more if you add in the Germanic ones, and some of the earliest Arabic material?

"Public school charters haven't worked very well, have they? The BSA removed them all when the ACLU threatened to sue any public school that chartered a BSA unit that discriminated." And the circle of regurgitation is completed. Shall we start again? Nah! What is the point?

"Here you are advocating that public schools ought to be able to operate private, "no atheists" clubs, ignoring the civil rights of atheists students and dismissing any concern for their rights as "PC", as if that makes trampling their rights acceptable: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=200165&p=5" Actually, all I said was that perhaps rational reasoning and common sense would be able to win out over PC nonsense. Even if the school was the actual sponsor, it would still NOT be required that the Atheist or whomever actually participate. And, if it so bothered them that they were on school property, with some school support, then they could START their own group and meet there also. Of course it highly unlikely they would have enough interest to make it work; but that gives them an excuse to claim it is unfair. No matter what rationale someone puts forward, you just continue to regurgitate that they are infringing on Atheists and other fringe groups' rights somehow. They have the same exact rights, other than to FORCE the others to admit them and change their rules and precepts. They can develop their own programs and use the facilities just the same as the scouts. So far though, that has not worked very well, as can be seen by the lack of success of the few who tried. Oh, that must be the BSA's fault too, somehow, or Christians, or whomever else they don't like and agree with. Yep, that's it.

"Once again skeptic, you seem to think atheists have fewer rights than you. It doesn't work that way. You just can't take criticism." Huh??? Do you ever listen to yourself?

It is a two way street Merlyn; but somehow you seem to think it only one way. It is not the religious suing the Atheist, it is the Atheist suing the religious. I have never said, or even suggested you do not have a right to your beliefs. What I have said, and say again, is that you should not have the right to try to change rules to suit the few, just because you disagree with them. We live in communities, and they will cease to function if minority opinion can run rough shod over the majority through legal intimidation and big pockets. Obviously, you care very little about society as a cohesive, and cooperative endeavor. You will continue your ego-centric attitude no matter what anyone else thinks, does, or even how much negative affects your litigious attacks cause. To me, it is simply sad that community seems to be unimportant to so many. You have the right to believe anything you want, but that does not make it right; nor does your right outweigh mine. The amount of funds that is spent jousting at windmills could do so much more for the public good. And when you lose the match, you become even more vicious in your attacks. See the terrible things done in California when Prop 8 won; people publicly attacked and businesses picketed, just because they voted their conscience. Yet, somehow, many think that is okay. If it was turned around, the perpetrators would be branded as Nazi's or worse. I voted against Prop 8, because I felt it went too far. But, I still do not feel personal living decisions should be anybody's business but those involved. I fail to understand how any moderately intelligent individual can be so insecure or shallow that they cannot ignore symbols and words with which they disagree and find it necessary to make an issue of it. While certainly I cannot prove or disprove it, I would suspect that if we ever implemented the legal methods in Europe, where litigants who lost would have to pay all the legal costs of those who they sued, we would see far fewer of these types of suits. As long as it is less expensive to simply roll over, or pay a settlement, it will continue. And very often to the detriment of community, especially when the payee is government. There are your taxes being put to good use. Enough; shield up. Later.

Merlyn: Perhaps the word should be coerce, or manipulate, rather than force. By constantly taking issue with others' beliefs, and bringing legal actions, especially in ambiguous areas of public accommodation, they indirectly cause many groups to either spend time and funds to defend, or make spurious adjustments to try to evade the attacks. Somehow, the beliefs and feelings of the few continue to be seen as more important and valid than the many. And when someone, or some organization actually stands up to them, they find every way possible to demonize and marginalize. Force; Pressure? Call it something else, but it is real, and too often totally self serving.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

Perhaps a separate spin-off, but related. What are the thoughts on contacting businesses that fly flags that are either threadbare, or just done incorrectly, such as at night with no light? Every time I drive to the neighboring community along the 101, I see a motel with a flag at half staff, or almost so. I suspect the pulley or rope is bad, but do not know. Over the years, I cannot count how many frayed and discolored flags I have seen in front of places. Same for flags at night with no obvious lighting, unless nearby buildings is acceptable. Just wonder if anyone feels it is worth the effort to contact at least the most egregious ones?

Calico; It seems to me that a truer measurement or comparison might be to average what similar, you say type B space, is going for in the immediate environs of the building. I am led to understand that this is an older, and less desirable section of town; if so, then the per square foot costs would likely be substantially lower. But, I could be mistaken on this. Perhaps you can clarify that for us. Whatever the case, the city has basically taken the building because they can. When it was built and given to the city, it was a different time. Today, no one would be likely to enter into such an arrangement under the terms of that time, as they would recognize that they would need to protect themselves more securely. In some respects there are very similar conditions with the camp on Mission Bay. 42 youth organizations and the city "asked" the scouts to build the Fiesta Island. They did, at their own expense; now we have the law suit that is basically trying to take the camp away, even though it was built with the blessing of the city and the other groups, and is open to anyone. This continued ego-centric, sometimes amoral attitude is counterproductive in most cases. And it rarely serves the best interests of the general populous, often causes far more damage to positive programs that benefit large portions of the community. Of course this really does not matter to those who push the issues, as they "are ego-centric". JMO; armor on.

Just for info, there is now an official request tendered to the Supreme Court about the San Diego cases. See the BSA legal links for details. Any bets on how long this will drag on? Surely, it will be months or more before a decision is reached to even hear it. Will the SC have a new member by then?