skeptic

"A background check and insurance can't possibly cost $60." https://blog.verifirst.com/blog/bid/305407/cost-of-a-background-check-how-much-should-you-pay Add the cost of fingerprinting in many cases, anywhere from fifty plus dollars from what I have seen. Locally for the minimum it approaches one hundred dollars. Juat saying: a background without a complete search is not what they need, especially today.

So, again we will see comments that ignore other youth activity costs. That is the standard, and has been such for a while now. BSA kept cost per member low for decades in comparison to most other groups, and they still are on averge less. Here is one comparative example, and there are others. It is not clear what additional costs may incur in relation these, and it does not indicate what the cost includes. A little digging may clarify; but one likely would expect it to cover similar organizational needs, such as hopefully some form of YP/background process, including vetting adults. My impression is that the YP issues may yet not be broadly faced by many groups as they are smaller and also have not attracted the lawyers. https://www.playgroundequipment.com/the-average-cost-of-each-childrens-sport/#:~:text=The average cost of youth,child each year is %24693. And, my observations locally over a long while is that many that yell the loudest have little issue with numerous frivioul costs for their youth, icluding yearly trips to major theme parks, regular fast food, video games, and phones, to note a few. Just saying, it is not easily assessed, and not likely apples to oranges.

It was stopped due to Covid; but is that now lifted? It should be. Of course, many areas have them active in local cemeteries.

They are offering old light houses for historic care and maintencance, some as donations, and some available to purchase. Most appear to be on the East coast, which is somewhat to be expected I suppose. Is on near one of our High Adventure bases? It certainly could add to a program, though the upkeep is likely not viable. All of them are hostorical though it appears.

Scouting is local. The unit is local and owned or allowed space by a CO or now church agreement. Whether or not the CO, or other connected organization is on the shirt or necker designs is up to them and is not advertiaing. Advertising is trying to sell something at the expense of the troop logo. Today we seldom see real advertising with BSA connections due to the laws in place. In the early decades Scouts often were seen in actual ads, and some were well paid I think, though the really early ones probably less likely. So, come to an agreement or move in another direction. It is still a local issue it seems to me, specific to your situation.

How is this connected to Scouting.? It looks like a typical sport team shirt or something. Just asking.

Yes, there it is, in theory anyway, and writing. Still, we continue to see adults with all of the things noted in your share be second guessed or criticized by other adults. And those qualified leaders or supervisors are pushed sometimes to just give up. IF they are there, unless they are letting something dangerous happen, they should be allowed to act as they feel is proper. It happens outside of Scouting too. But, thank you for that very concise link.

It seems too often that I read here and elsewhere that certain "rules or restrictions" must be put in place to make everything safe and smooth running. And one of those is that we MUST have adult supervision. So what does that mean? Too often I see it meaning that some other adult must make that judgment with those restrictions and rules, and that we that are in theory the "adult supervision" are unable to do the job. This makes little sense in many instances, and it is often a subject here as to what that means somehow. Just as we need to allow the youth to learn from doing and even failing or having poor outcomes, do we not also need to allow the leaders to actually be leaders; the "adult supervision"? I realize of course that much of this is due to our societal concerns that seem to overreact to too many things and then make it into litigation. Still, what is the point if we live with the idea that "adult supervision" is never actually allowed. If the adult is not allowed to make judgment calls. Just my frustration I suppose. Or, am I on target?

Unless they "fix" the so called election process, including restructuring how many can be elected per unit, somewhat like twenty or so years ago, they will not see much improvement. As already noted here ad nausium, it is no longer something most youth aspire to, as it has lost any real image or valid honor position. Add the lack of barely any accountibility at ordeals on violating the simple rules, and we are where we seem to be now. Additionally, unless the mystique is reestablished in ceremonies with those doing them prepared and "knowing" thier lines (not reading), it will continue to have little real interest other than the checked box.

IMHO it is our screwed up legal system that allows lawyers to cause issues where there are none, or they are minor. Far too many ridiculous monetary payouts for things that are mostly part of the larger human race. The issue we face(d) likely would never have even gone to court in much of the world, and our media just makes it worse by their skewed focus on sensationalism.

Another example of some adults overstepping. It sounds as if they are suggesting the youth, or the troop, or both do not have the intelligence or understanding to follow the pretty much bullet pointed form. Oh my gosh, someone might use imagination or out of the box thinking. Seems sad to me, and if it was from my district I would be on them directly, as I did once when someone on the district "Eagle Committee" told us that we had approved a project that was out of line with the intent. I had to actually read the detailed phrases and then ask them to explain how it was not done right or acceptible. The district head resigned, but sometimes it is just too much.

Two seeparate versions of the program. The British or likely original BP concept leading to hopefully a smoother transition. In the Patrol system, as noted by Hillcourt, yes the patrol members would vote for a patrol leader, ideally. But, as understood, I believe, there is an adult option to veto that in "rare" circumstances. But, that should be the last option; often the floundering youth finds his way and surprises us. As adults, it can be very hard to watch the new leaders struggle, but that is part of the process.

My councill is not on this list. What does that possibly indicate? Are these ones that sold property, or just what they are being asked for? I do not know for sure, but we had a settlement from a wildfire loss during this period, so that may be related?

That just goes to show that I was not up on any such change. I had thought the 20 miles was part of the badge since "always", and it was one reason it was often not attempted.

Like most of these types of things, it is variable as to the best approach. Ultimately, it is the leader that needs to decide, an d as long as it does not obviously contradict vague "rules or guides" there is not wrong answer. This idea that everything is black or white is just ignorant. Sky changes with the light it receives, and so do most human perspectives.

We may need to be careful to not equate understanding cultura elements of various NA groups, with the inuendo of of Cultural Appropriation. Too many, it seems to me, jump overboard if even a mention of NA history or culture is put into discussion. Many of our issues in todays society seem to be overreactions to simple knowledge of others and their thoughts and histories. And often, that accusation is aimed specifically at the WAS parts of our society. Again, just my opininion.

As an addin. Much of my early knowledge and views of Native Americans came from the generation of which I spoke above. But, I was an avid reader of good historical novels, as well as off the wall bits of history. That on occasion, with the better writers, touched on realities and inequities, but also on real intercultural mixing. Then when I took two courses in NA History, as well as an anthro course on NA language connections, I finally began understanding better. Episodes of cultural history can happen instantaeously, but the real picture takes dcades and longer.

While I surely agree we need to review and in many instances adjust our approach, I do not see this being as great an issue as some are tyring to make it. Again, there are numerous examples of tribes working to display their customs and histories with others, both within and without the Native American groups. And there are many example of non NA individuals honoring customs and history , often with the support of local tribes. Once again, we cannot rewrite history, good or bad. But we can adjust and find shared interests and efforts to recognize and honor. We seem to have many suggesting that any study and hands on cultural study and sharing by non NA is somehow wrong. That is foolish and gains nothing but stress and misunderstaanding. Do we simply somehow erase all the history prior to a certain time, including that dealing with the intertribes and their treatment of others? Do we destroy all the early "westerns" that are poorly made in regard to NA culture and history? Most who review this issue likely understand that it is a evolving discussion. Many of us grew up when the stories of the Indians and White man conflicts was common and often the subject of B movies and yes, cowboys and indians. I hope most of us of that generation also can recognize much of the real errors of that period and can adjust. That includes the NA culture as well I would profer. Learn from history and adjust to make the future better and more cohesive across cultures and ethnic groups. That is why we study the past, or should be, in my view. And this suggestion extends beyond the immediate discucssion to other cultural groups and so on. We need to get back to the melting pot idea.

If you have received the survey, you should note that there are soptions that suggest some of what you suggest. To me, it is very open and actually allowed me to give honest thoughts. To me, it is most important to respect both local and far flung tribes and to always work with them locally. We have had a number of visits from Chumash elders and they blessed our call out with a smoke ceremony in a few incidences. The most care needs to be taken, IMHO, in learning as much as possible and NOT appropriate things without the involvement of the local tribes. In regard to the Delaware, the initial tribe, the ceremonies may need serious review ans changes, and where possible maybe develop partner ceremonies for the local locations that reflect the originals if possible. In regard to the MB, it is in need of serious rewrite, and that shoud include input from Nationl level Native groups so as to NOT overstep. On the OA level, we need to FIX the poor ceremonial presentations that are far too common. Certainly, if possible do NOT read ceremonial lines, and also be sure if regalia is in play that it is worn correctly and is not looked at as simply costume.

With the ongoing challenge we are dealing with in regard to a youth with Autism and a meltdown I find this important. It appears we have no committee on disabilities in our council, and the SE seems unwilling to consider it as a need, even though a number of adults have broahed it and are willing to work with it. Mean, our young person is in limbo and no clear info is available. We want to put him into a Lone Scout program which allows separation if his issues are flaring, but still lets him be involved. Meanwhile, we seem to be wheel spinning. Anyway, this is a good piece by Aaron. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2023/03/16/guiding-a-scout-with-neurodivergent-issues-through-their-eagle-scout-service-project/

Sadly, too true today, though we still have the units that do NOT fit that picture. But, too often, those units are dependent on too few adults that know how to sit in the background with occasional prods. And that is because they were not allowed to function in that manner. Add the modern issues with which we have now struggled for more than two decades, and it truly makes it harder. Yet, the program survives, and on occasion the public actually recognized it for its overall worth, rather than the image too often propagandized by the media and others. I recently have thought how fortunate I have been that few of the negatives have largely affected my century+ unit, but as I have aged, and the needed YP guides have come into play, I also recognize how lucky I was in a few instances. When I first took over the unit, still in my thirties, two deep was NOT absolute. And some of my earliest adventures were with me and a few older youth that were traiining me in some respects. But we dodged a couple of bullets a few times, and it made me insist that I have at least one other adult with me at all times, not just for transport. I can pleasantly look back though and honestly boast that I have had a few exceptional men come out of the melee, and many more simply "solid" men with the keen focus. And that is what we still can do, even though often challenged by the guidelines taken too often to extremes, perhaps. Balance, one of myu favorite concepts. But I am soon to enter my last year of my seventies, and maybe my perspective is clouded. ????

Will see if this works; thanks.

The young man who had never exhibited this kind of behavior and is in the extended program for youth/adults has been balanced and deemed no longer a danger. But the local council has refused to discuss his being put into the Lone Scout Program, or any program actually and the local SE has demonized him. We are not able to get info on where to go above the council, and we have been told the decisiion is that of the SE as he deems fit. When asked who we could appeal to he refuses us any info, and we have not found links on the net. Help, if possible.

It is not really that uncommon to find yourself suddenly one on one, at least for a moment. Youth come into your space with questions or simply to get something in the general area. You can be sittingon the porch at camp with coffee and on occasion they will appear and your realize there are no others there at the immediate moment. That was one of my most diddicult things with which to deal as a sub teacher. The kids would just appear on occasion and I would find myself migrating very quickly to the open area outside the door if the student was alone. Most of these instances are completely innocent, but easily happen.

Years ago one of the parents in my kids pack asked me 'when do we pay for all of this? we're getting a lot more than it is costing us." That is an interesting comment if I am reading it correctly. A parent asking when the other shoe of cost may drop? It is usually not that kind of comment we hear, so it must have been refreshing. Yes, we can find many ways of spreading the wealth while spreading the cost too. Sadly, far too many choose to ignore those realities and just seem to feel they have little need to contribute. Meanwhile we hope to keep heads above water, or simply absorb because it is fun or rewarding for us, as well as them. Then you have a Scout Sunday at your church where your unit has met for a centry plus, and the congregation smiles and loves the scouts and makes it clear it IS important.