skeptic

"Is it possible that SOME parents have completely out of the box unrealistic expectations?" Yes!!!!!!!!!

In 1958, I had to pass the California Constitution test to graduate 8th grade. Most of us in scouts used it as the basis for the Nation merit badge at the same time. The test was very intensive, as some on this board may remember. In high school, we had social science and history as separate classes. In social science we studied civics type of things for one, including voting importance, poly sci, geography, and so on. We also spent an entire quarter on income tax preparation in that class in my senior year; we were given raw data with which to prepare a long form then in use. We also studied banking issues and simple budgeting. Four years of history, four of social studies, 4 of math, 4 of P.E. (and you had to actually perform and deal with taking a public shower); 7 periods total every year. Campus was closed, and parents had to have a really valid reason to take you out of school; and when they did, you were not only responsible to catch up, but often were assigned a special report if the reason was some kind of trip. That was back when California was almost the best system in the country of course. It also was before personal responsibility was held in high esteem, and "honor" actually meant something. Ah, the good old days.

Or you could simply review all the old "Jaywalking" tapes.

Thanks for the clarification Eamonn. The "do my best" part is always part of my intro to a new scout and my expectations. I try to make it clear that they ultimately are their own judge of how well they live up to the various components of the Scouting guidelines. My observations and comments will be guided by how well I feel they may be doing based on what I have grown to understand about them, and they will become greater as they advance and grow in the Scouting program. The back of our troop T says "Live the Twelve", and they are spread throughout the landscape depicted as the coast of Ventura. The same phrase is atop our blackboard in block letters, soon to be replaced with a carved wood version they all have worked on to go above the board. With luck, they occasionally take that personal measure.

Last night our council had its annual Eagle Recognition dinner, and we had the privilege of having Alvin Townley as the key-note speaker. He really connected with the audience, and is extremely friendly and focused. Our council arranged to have every attendee receive a free copy of his new book (do not know, but probably taken from the budget for the event), and he patiently signed every one that requested it. I was able to visit a few minutes afterward with him, and felt he is truly attempting to highlight the best things about scouting, rather than spotlight the few things that make the movement so controversial. I look forward to his continued authorship of works that advance that goal.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

Embarrassing story from years back. We went on a training hike in the San Gabriel Mountains. We went in near Wrightwood, and our goal was to hike to the head water area of the San Gabriel River. As we prepared to leave, we dutifully spread our topo map on the hood of one of the vehicles to double check the route. It took us two or three minutes to realize our error; and it was a couple of the scouts who pointed it out as we "experienced leaders" scratched our heads trying to figure out why nothing looked quite right. Looking back, all I can say is duhhhhhhh! At least having an unseen nail in a table top makes more sense.

Not sure about the comment regarding Tates? Link did not work for me. Often, when the poles are reversed, it has had contact with something that caused it. It may have been fine until then. I have one that got stored too near a large metal source and it reversed. I gave it a solid tap and it went back, sort of like the little trick magnet toys. Of course, maybe you just got one meant for the southern hemisphere.

Has something changed with Spielberg? He cut all ties after the Dale decision. Has he had a change of heart?

Ditto! Something I wrote after visiting before the 85 Jambo. ARLINGTON A hush hangs silent on rolling hills, verdant green and shade trees, monuments of aging granite, myriad rows of crosses interspersed with stars and wheels. Crowds throng, walk softly, speak with quiet voices, though subdued laughter still is heard above the guides dull drones. At the Unknowns Tomb The hush is dense; hundreds watch the changing guards salute, blank faced, in perfect rote, the simple stone sarcophagus. A wreath is laid; a bugle sounds; Taps echoes, somber, wrenching notes rising hauntingly past half-staffed Flag towards heaven. Below, the Eternal Flame flares, flickering before the grave of a generations shattered dreams; in front, chiseled on an arcing wall, his challenge; Ask not what your country can do for you; but, what you can do for your country! Crowds stand reading. Above it all Arlington House stands, the Custis-Lee mansion, a joining of North and South. A squirrel chatters; birds sing and warble; God blesses this quiet place of Honor, a silent tribute to Freedom. 8-2-85; edited 5-25-08 (This message has been edited by skeptic)

It appears that this is still in BETA; but look forward to it being open for comment from rank and file, not just those with BSA credentials. Saw some really good ideas on there, and some I am not sure which planet they live on. Still, everything needs to have a glimpse to find what fits. One I particularly like is the suggestion to have a National team to work closely with councils in trouble, not just criticize or send them paper orders and suggestions. I actually suggested that for camp problems in councils, as every camp lost is another nail in the coffin of keeping "Outing in Scouting". Time will tell.

For me, it must have been canoeing. I flunked it. I can still remember two things about being on Jenks Lake next to Camp Arataba in the San Bernardino Mountains in summer of 1959. The swamping requirement found me talking to a row boat of girl scouts about how I did not need help. As a 15 year old, it was a bit embarrassing; but looking back just humorous. But, for whatever reason I could not master the j-stroke, and so could never paddle a straight course. I have tried over the years, but still for whatever reason cannot do it consistently. Now, I just laugh and zig-zag as needed. Of course, unfortunately, today in many camps they would have passed me I am afraid.

Don't you have to have an international letter of some sort to take scouts outside the country? Or is that only required when going places not connected to our borders?

We have our church van listed separately with the church's insurance info. Then annotate to indicate driver(s), their licenses, and their insurance info. Good luck.

Okay. If OGE says it was "overwhelming" to close the thread, so be it. However, I find it particularly odd that the attacks made on myself and others in these threads by a few are allowed, but when a pattern that dates back a long way is verified and pointed out, then it is somehow wrong to point it out. Mr. Westley: (corrected name) I apologize for hurting your feelings. I will try harder to live by the "live and let live" idea that I have tried to follow. More importantly, I will try to do a better job of living the scout law, specifically "friendly", "courteous", "kind", "cheerful", and "reverent (reflected in turning the other cheek in my beliefs, while accepting your right to disbelieve anything)". Mr. Kroh: My name is Wes Fish. You may Google me all you like, as I have nothing to hide, unless you feel liking Rod McKuen is somehow weird, as some do. Sincerely, Skeptic; AKA Wes Fish(This message has been edited by skeptic)(This message has been edited by skeptic)(This message has been edited by skeptic)

http://www.myreader.co.uk/message/1486544.aspx This saga is from back in 2005. Looks like we are not the only recipients of this nonsense. If you do a bit of Googling, you can find numerous similar things in bits and pieces. And very often, our buddy starts calling people liars. Oh well, guess everyone needs a hobby. Just kind of sad that this one is so negative.

Calico; At least in the larger cities, it is the latter. Many stores no longer have real display windows; and few are willing to give up space to a display of something they do not sell. With many larger retailers, the fear of PC backlash is likely a factor too. I know that at least was part of the reason that JCPenney Co. quit selling scout stuff;they got threats from certain groups about boycotts and negative publicity. I worked for them in middle management for years, and inquired directly when I could no longer even get stuff in catalog.

What does most of what you gripe and moan about have to do with scouting? You are NOT a Scouter. And this is the political thread in which you go on and on and on ................ about how persecuted Atheists are. So, answer your own question. Frankly, I just found it amusing to have a major paper actually publish something that points out how insecure and thin skinned the strident few of you are. And, I really could care less what you think or say, as you long ago proved yourself to be everything you keep calling the BSA and people of religious bent. So, have fun ranting.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-allen17-2009may17,0,491082.story Okay, for some reason, the link will not post completely, so cut and paste to include the last part. Some quotes from an L.A. Times Opinion Piece today by Charlotte Allen. "What primarily seems to motivate atheists isn't rationalism but anger -- anger that the world isn't perfect, that someone forced them to go to church as children, that the Bible contains apparent contradictions, that human beings can be hypocrites and commit crimes in the name of faith. The vitriol is extraordinary." "My problem with atheists is their tiresome -- and way old -- insistence that they are being oppressed and their fixation with the fine points of Christianity. What -- did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?" "Maybe atheists wouldn't be so unpopular if they stopped beating the drum until the hide splits on their second-favorite topic: How stupid people are who believe in God." "Maybe Darwin-o-mania stems from the fact that this year marks the bicentennial of Charles Darwin's birth in 1809, but haven't atheists heard that many religious people (including the late Pope John Paul II) don't have a problem with evolution but, rather, regard it as God's way of letting his living creation unfold? Furthermore, even if human nature as we know it is a matter of lucky adaptations, how exactly does that disprove the existence of God?" "If there is no God -- and you'd be way beyond stupid to think differently -- why does it matter whether he's good or evil?" "What atheists don't seem to realize is that even for believers, faith is never easy in this world of injustice, pain and delusion. Even for believers, God exists just beyond the scrim of the senses. So, atheists, how about losing the tired sarcasm and boring self-pity and engaging believers seriously?"(This message has been edited by skeptic)(This message has been edited by skeptic)(This message has been edited by skeptic)

le Voyageur; Thanks; Amen.

Right now on eBay there are 8 copies being offered, including one 1944 edition for $12 and "buy it now". 7 of the 8 are the first edition, various printings. Suspect the offerings will continue as people clean out garages, attics, and basements, along with houses of parents who have passed away or are downsizing. Take a look.

Thanks for the additional link info. I am paper collector, and now have one more unusual type to aspire to find, even if it is unlikely. At least I know it exists now. You never know what sort of just shows up somewhere.

Try this; it works for me in Mozilla browser. Tried it in IE, and it did not for some reason. Odd. Has the earlier late 40's to late 50's program; also a couple of patches from the new program from late 50's. Probably with a bit of digging, you can find some other representations. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826/explorers.html

Yes, the first edition, the old dirt brown cover, is definitely the best. Minor correction; the first edition was in 1944, with subsequent printings almost every year from there on. The earliest has a pebbled type surface and a copyright date of 1944. There is a second printing in 1944 that does not have the pebbled surface. Also was a public copy of the 3rd edition that was sold in bookstores. Would like to see that happen again. I still look for copies of the first issue to give to assistants and friends, as I do with the classic Rockwell Scoutmaster HB. Also look for BSHB's from adult youth periods for thank yous. Many have lost their original books, and it seems appreciated.

In regard to Boys' Life, it is definitely read by kids in the schools that have them in their library. National should seriously consider finding a way to get it into every school in the country. And that would be both Cub and Boy Scout printings in the elementary schools, since that is the cross over level. I donate old copies to various schools in which I sub, and the librarians always say they wish they had them regularly, and more of them. One school says that more than once she has had keep the pieces for the boys to read; and she also said a lot of girls like them too. I also occasionally talk a bit about some outing I was on with my troop, and I always have a number of boys show serious interest, if it is outdoors; and even service that they see as fun and interesting, such as flags at Memorial Day. Now, if they put out a contact piece as part of the mag itself with the recruiting link for on-line, and maybe an 800 type number for local council, that would really be a good tool it seems to me.

Well, until after WWII scouts were registered as First Class or below, never the other "higher" ranks. If they were Star, Life, or even Eagle, they were just First Class with merit badges. The name "First Class" is specifically referring to being the best, as having the epitome of scouting skills. Unless somehow getting older takes away the earning of the other ranks, it would seem to me to be simply logic that if once an Eagle, always an Eagle would apply similarly to the ranks earned prior to. But of course that is just my opinion.