skeptic

While this is a great endeavor, I do not see how it is really an Eagle project. Eagle projects are not supposed to be done for the Scouts, but for community groups, schools, and so on. Maybe it is acceptable because it is public art???

Here in So Cal, it is also similar to the North's coverage. Just add in the requisite "flash flood warnings" and possible mud slides in the burn areas. Then they show the mud running down the same spot dozens of times on every station, and the few idiots who are dumb enough to attempt to do something stupid, like drive through two feet of water, or refuse to evacuate when the mud has already taken out a house a block away. The other weather thing that annoys me is that its wet, more later. Give the weather news and get on with other things. Don't give us bits and come on info, then make us wait for more info. And, maybe they could give us actual rain totals, if known. Also, don't keep showing the constant radar precip maps, unless they actually relate to real info'; and don't stand in front of the map and block the information, or pan through it so fast you can't really see it. Finally, don't make yourself look stupid by saying there will be "thunder showers", or there are "thunder showers". There is no such thing. They are thunder storms with rain showers. Rant off.

See the other thread in this section; exactly what this talks about. "L.A. Then and Now"; L.A. Times California Section

In the weekly article on L.A. history in the TIMES, they discuss a couple of groups of public debaters that were common in the L.A. in the first half of the 20th century. Of course they tended to be much like the discussions here a great deal of the time. I could not help but think of this series of threads when I read a quote from a 1935 TIMES columnist, Lee Shippey. He said; "when you know a thing, you may merely speak it, but when you are rather doubtful, you must assert it so loudly as to overwhelm all opposition". Seems somewhat apropos for here. ;-)}

Mentioned my concern to our scout exec today, and he told me that the man in charge at National of the entire event died unexpectedly late last year; and though the position is filled, it very well may have caused serious confusion and slow downs. Seems logical, but wish they would get it righted soon.

Pretty hefty prices though.

I AM BEGINNING TO HAVE SOME SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT MY ROLE IN THE JAMBO THIS SUMMER, AS I STILL HAVE HAD ALMOST NO CONTACT FROM ANYONE, OTHER THAN REMINDERS ABOUT PAYING, AND THE MEDICAL FORMS. AFTER SEARCHING, I WAS ABLE TO FINALLY HAVE A NOTE FROM THE PERSON IN CHARGE OF MY ASSIGNMENT; BUT STILL DO NOT HAVE A REPORT DATE, OR ANY SPECIAL UNIFORM AND EQUIPMENT INFO'. BASED ON WHAT IS POSTED HERE, AND THE LAST FEW WEEKS ESPECIALLY ON SCOUTS-L, THERE SEEMS TO BE A DISCONNECT ALMOST BETWEEN NATIONAL AND THE VOLUNTEERS; AT LEAST THOSE OF US ON THE OUTER PERIPHERY WITH NO EXTENDED CONTACTS. THIS IS WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS ON PURPOSE. I AM HOPING THAT "SOMEONE" FROM NATIONAL MAY ACTUALLY TAKE NOTE AND START THE WHEELS MOVING AGAIN. THE JAMBO SITE HAS HAD NO UPDATES SINCE LAST FALL, AND THERE HAVE SO FAR BEEN FEW OTHER SOURCES FROM THE PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE, BY THIS TIME, PUSHING TO HAVE THINGS FLOWING. MOST VOLUNTEERS DO NOT HAVE THE LUXURY OF SIMPLY SCHEDULING THINGS AT THE LAST MINUTE. WE NEED TIME TO PLAN, MAKE LOCAL ARRANGEMENTS FOR OURSELVES AND OFTEN UNITS, AND SCROUNGE TO COVER COSTS. SO, I BEG ANYONE THAT IS ABLE, TO LIGHT A FIRE AT THE HIGHER LEVELS SO THOSE OF US STILL AWAITING VALID AND CONCRETE INFORMATION ARE NOT LEFT IN THE DARK MUCH LONGER. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE, WHOMEVER YOU MAY BE.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

Well, if it is to be pie, then I want gooseberry. The perfect choice for someone soured on this whole thing.

Interestingly enough, I have had my older scouts ask if we can find a few more, so they can wear them like class B's at camp or COR. We have a few in the closet, but not enough for them all. Have had a couple still use them for backups at camp; and I have no problem. They tend to bring mostly positive feedback when they do.

twocubdad: There is an actual significance to be selected a jamboree leader of any sort. While I certainly realize that many care very little about these things, for memorabilia 30 or 40 years later, the special border, or whatever, would show that the person was a leader in a more select group in some capacity. I have a blanket, and it would be nice to have an ASM patch that immediately indicated I was that for our council troop that year. The same goes for the youth who were the junior leaders. I agree that sometimes the patches are over kill; but to me, this makes a lot of sense. Hope that clarifys this for you. There may even be someone that agrees with me; who knows.

Our unit was officially chartered in December, 1921, and we have all the paperwork to support it, including the original application. We are fortunate in that regard; and I was able to fix an error in the tenure because we had that material. The other two oldest units in our council also have most of the documentation. We are the second oldest continuous troop; the 3rd oldest lost 5 months when they had a lapse in rechartering, but did recharter in the contiguous year. National did not give them credit for the 5 months they missed, but did keep them as a continuous troop. My understanding is that should they have not rechartered again until the next year, the tenure would have been terminated, and they would have become a new troop on paper. The oldest troop can document to December, 1917, which predates our council. The original recharter for them, as an original troop in the new council, from 1921 shows the at large beginning date on the paperwork. Finding info on units prior to a council actually being there is hit and miss. News clippings, old sponsor records, and so on help. But National's records are either missing or hidden; and trying to get access is very difficult. I have been refused any access to at large Eagle paperwork that would possibly document Eagles that predate our council's origin in June, 1921. We had hundreds of scouts, beginning in the fall of 1910, according to news articles, and a couple of the "original" troops in 1921 had 5+ Eagles in the first decade of the council. So, I would imagine there very well could have been one or two at least prior to the council origin. Proving it without having access to records is next to impossible. The NESA and Eagle search computer logs from 2002 do not appear to have any data on at large registrations through regions or national. I suspect that there is a file somewhere of Eagles that were not assigned to a council when the work was done, as they did not know where they were from for sure, and there was no council affiliation. It took me years to get my own Eagle location corrected in NESA records, as my council merged in 1972, and they had me listed where I am now involved. Finally got that fixed this past year with the book search that occurred. But even then, they messed it up initially. So, I guess you need to find the oldest records available, dig in papers, talk to older scouters who might have info. You may or may not get the answers, but you will find lots of interesting things while doing it. Again, I was fortunate that one of our older scouters and a friend rescued all of our original charter records, dating to the start of the council, before they dumped them when our office moved in the 60's. They were stacked in the attic in our current office, and I spent a couple of months sweltering there for a few hours at a time, organizing them by unit types, and towns. They are now all in boxes, labeled, and available if someone should choose to review them. Maybe I need to check on them, come to think of it. People do dumb things with these type of records. Might have to refile a few, or something. Good luck.

The link below was posted on Scouts-L. It is truly a huge undertaking by this dedicated scouter. I am grateful for his efforts and attention to these things. This covers material just published in the brand new requirement book for 2010, including major merit badge changes, and even the "historical badges". Great resource. http://usscouts.org/advance/changes/advchanges10.asp

Now there is a suggestion that would make sense; having a bar with the troop's year of founding. Then, those of us in long time troops would not need to change the bar every five years. Next year we reach 90, and I will then have to order the bars, as we will be only the 2nd such troop in our council, then try to get current scouts to change them out. Have one scout still wearing an 80; gave up trying to get him to put the 85 on. Another idea I feel should be seriously considered by National, is a special border on leadership patches for Jambo troops. I was an ASM in 1985, but the patch I used has no indication of that, other than me. And there certainly would be enough demand to make it worthwhile with the amount of troops attending. The border would be possibly different each time, and include junior leaders as well, and possibly commissioners for regions and so on; or to keep costs lower, they could simply use the same patches each time.

Another thing from the site with the trailer is that the supposed maker has some connection to an LDS activity related to films or something. That also surprised me, as one would think that overall, anyone associated with them would strive to be a bit more accurate, especially since a couple of the "real more negative things in the news the past few years are from the Utah area scouting community. Something I found a bit amusing in the thing was the microphone lettering; PCHS. Could not help but think an acronym of some sort relating to political correctness, though the HS did not have a meaning to me, other than high school.

Why in heaven's name would anyone put such foolishness on the net? While the attacks on Scouting are real, this film, based on the flyer, is absurd. Either the maker is not really cognizant of the Scouting program, or has been seriously misinformed. The main character is wearing a circa 1973 shirt (has a Jambo patch) with a 2nd class badge; so getting to Eagle would be pretty hard given his age. The innuendos towards the current president and the ridiculous charges from the far right regarding his supposed glorification in schools, the completely illogical camp scenes at the start, and the mixing of Cub uniforms with various Scout types are all ludicrous. They indicate it is supposed to be a "dramedy"; I guess that means a comedy and drama mixed. But, again, based on the trailer and other info on the site, it is absolute stupidity, and only has the possibility of becoming a laughing stock on "U-Tube". It certainly will do little to actually help in the Scouting defense in today's society.

Maybe it is simply time to CLOSE this thread. With this suggestion, there have been 500 entries. If she wishes to let us know a "final" outcome, she can always simply repost a new one.

No indication whether or not these are official or not. If they are, then they will be the only ones you can use I would think. If optional, then I would think you would ask the scout themselves. As a memorabilia collector, I will likely want to have a set just because.

"Basically,I want to do the job right. It's about them, not me. I don't want to ruin it for them. I do not care how I look as long as it works for them." Good for you; that is the spirit we all should strive for. I could use someone with that attitude in my unit(s).

The leader of boards in our area of the council brings one of those "That's Easy" buttons with him. He also has a tiny folding chair, along with an adult one at the start. He asks the candidate which chair he wants, after introductions to the board, and recitation of the Oath and Law. None has chosen the little one yet; sort of casually symbolic I think, as well as comedic relief to start. Then, before he sits, he is asked to push the button. If things seem to be getting too tense for the candidate during the board, the chair again has him take a breath, get up and push the button. Seems to help.

Interesting discussion on Scouts-L regarding how to avoid, or lessen the moisture related problems such as body fungi and heavy perspiration. Seems pretty much accepted that a good body powder, such as Gold Bond or cornstarch based brands are a good idea. Also, it is highly recommended that boxers, rather than briefs be worn, to allow more air circulation and lessen chaffing. Various types of fungal gels are discussed. I have discovered that diaper rash creme works very well on under arm and groin rashes. Other suggestions as we prep for the event?

"V". The problem with your comment, from my perspective, is that you have completely ignored the intent. In other words, the basic concept of the Oath and Law, with no one pushing their "agendas". The real shame is that this is still the main thrust of almost any unit, to try to instill these basic concepts, while having fun. All these other distractions are not the focus for most of us, only annoyance in that they take so much away from the best we have to offer. Please consider keeping these kind of comments on the Politics forum. Thank you.

HiLo; Right, back to the actual thread. The other issue is on the politics board anyway. Poll should focus on current users, past users, and possible users of the program. What should be asked, and how, would have to be tempered to the target, as those within will have a different perspective probably. Also, different wording at least if aimed at youth or adults; both should be part of it if possible. Should the BSA change its basic foundation in order to cater to a greater number, or should it remain faithful to its core? Certainly a query for current adults within the program. For youth within, perhaps something as to what makes the program fun for them? What could they do without, or change? For youth not in the program, something about what might bring them in; or why do they not feel scouting is for them? Would have to have some real thought go into any type of question though. For adults outside the program, something along the line of how do you view the BSA? You might need to ask if they have ever been in scouting as a preface to the survey. All, or most of the questions might be better if they included a "why". While there are those on this board who seem to think that a large majority of scouters would like major changes, I think they might be surprised. Most that I know, including those decades younger, specifically note they continue "because" it so far has not buckled to the outside pressures. But, polls and statistics are prone to skewing, no matter how careful you are.

The issues in San Diego are technically related to the religious element; but really probably is more due to the Gay issue. But since they could not attack them on the Gay issue, they found an excuse on religious grounds. It has been appealed to the Supreme Court now, and hopefully will finally get a proper hearing, as the 9th Circuit is obviously biased from the start. The plaintiffs in the case have very little "real" standing it seems, but somehow they continue to get enough sympathy from the PC crowd to hang in there. But the latest decisions had some interesting vibrations hinting at that they are not as secure as they thought. But, it is correct that it is a crime that this is taking away from the real program. Yet, who is responsible, really? People that have no care at all about the effect on the youth who are served, nor even the benefits to the city. Lets face it; if you are familiar with San Diego, you know that the parkland in Balboa not controlled by private groups is overgrown and a haven for drug, homeless, and crime. If the city takes back the BSA site, it will fall into the same category. And if Mission Bay is lost, it may very well fall on hard times too, as the BSA was "chosen" by the other youth serving groups to build and run the aquatic center, because it was felt they had the best resources and capability. Common sense, and the benefit to the majority continues to fall victim to selfish egotism. Don't bother to make your standard harpyish comment Merlyn. We already know what your thoughts are.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

Beavah; I do not know where you get the idea there is a general problem out West. Yes, like anything scouting, if something bad happens, it makes the papers. But scouting in our area has very good repoire with most of the federal agencies. Most units DO leave things better than they found it; they do try to be considerate of others, but groups will make more noise than two people; we do regular trail maintenance in the local forests and parks, as well as Eagle project. When one of our groups does do something out of line, or becomes known for bad habits, they generally are made aware of their errors. Our High Adventure committees teach all levels of camping and backpacking, including wilderness first aid, and they are also involved with the Trail Boss program. So, I am not sure why you would make such a broad stroked comment in the negative.

GaH, Vol, and others. It is hard, but rather than responding to our favorite gadfly, or whatever he is, just ignore him. If it happens enough,perhaps he will go away. Or, maybe he will resort to disagreeing with himself, and calling himself names. Give it a try. It certainly feels less frustrating.