skeptic

Since my fingers will not cooperate to make the needed sign, I just do not get involved. Not sure why they refuse to form the proper separations.

Yep, as now a counselor for both reading and scholarship, if prepared ahead of time, most boys spend less than an hour with me. Occasionally one shows up without needed documentation, or has not put in the effort to write a "real" essay, or something. But those coming for these 2 are usually prepared. Yeh, I know looking back that there were likely a dozen or so badges I could have completed the last couple of years, after Eagle, since I was 15 and 1/2, and ended up with more than 1 palm. But, I had too much going on, and never got around to it. Did earn God and Country though, which I am glad I did.

My first one was either scholarship or reading; they were definitely the first two. I was, as they called us then, "a book worm". Most memorable ones were canoeing, which I DID NOT PASS, and reptile study, which was my last. I lived on the edge of Joshua Tree National Monument, and my counselor for reptile study was the monument superintendent. I hiked into 49 Palms Canyon, which is on the edge of the park near where I lived, and captured 4 or 5 tree frogs from the oasis there, put them in a container of water, and brought them back. Then I put them in a big washtub with screening and a small artificial habitat and did the observations. Somehow I managed to not have any of them die, and after the 30 days was up, I took them back and released them; they all were alive, and surely happy, as frogs can be anyway, to be "home". When I described my observations for the counselor, he gives me this "look", then the voice clearing; you likely all have heard it. After very sternly explaining to me how he could arrest me for federal violations, one for each frog, and so on, terrifying me, even at 17, he smiled and said something to the effect of, "I'm sure you will NEVER do something like that again!", and approved the merit badge. Of course, I have been ultra-aware of these types of reg's ever since. Canoeing was as a 15 year old on Jenks Lake near Crestline, Ca. Old Camp Arataba, summer of 1959. Could not master the j-stroke, and so never completed it. Everything else was a snap. Funny encounter with a row boat of girl scouts while doing the swamping thing. They appeared while I was turning it over in the water to get into and paddle into shore to empty. They wanted to know if I needed help; of course they found this to be amusing, based on the giggling from some (think there were 3). Arataba was right next door to the still in use, Tahquitz owned by Long Beach Area Council. My troop has attended Tahquitz the past 2 years, and we are going again this year. Arataba, along with its FS lease, was sold in 1960 after they had a disastrous fire over the winter that burned the lodge to the ground, along with a storage facility with most of their tents and so on. Arrowhead Area Council just happened to have had the land donated that year that became Helendade in Running Springs. So, they built the new camp, with Arataba's last year being the summer of 1960 using tentage and other material furnished by the two nearby Marine bases. (This message has been edited by skeptic)

Oh that old "Pogo" schtick!!!!

http://comics.com/candorville/ Found this to be really representative of some of the discussions here. Smile!!

Pretty much go with Beavah here. But am curious as to how, if your info is accurate, the SM thinks he is taking 8 scouts and 15 adults to Philmont, unless most are actually going to a conference while the rest are on the trail. Philmont will not allow more adults than scouts in a crew; believe the ration is 8:4 max with a crew of 12, and fewer adults should the youth be fewer.

I would think there would be no difference between a more or less permanently attached one and one with pins of some sort; they would simply need to fit the space, and be where they belong. Even though I have tried to stay away from the pie thread, it seems as if my shirts continue to shrink over time. I finally had to accept that some have passed their usefulness to me. I stripped three yesterday of personal things; one a wonderful 50's era "short-sleeve" shirt with wooden buttons. Such a cool shirt (not weather); but I can barely button the top two buttons. One is going to one of my scouts who has outgrown his, and really cannot afford a new one; the other two, one long sleeved, are going to a COR meeting for offer to others. Meanwhile, I will continue to look for the closet moths that cause the problem, so current shirts do not suffer the same fate.

Yep; definitely still here!!

Good to see we still have "April Fools".

Some questionably aimed ones on Scouts-L today. One, regarding the Jamboree brought a post from the National Commissioner about not being funny, even April 1st. Trouble with these kind of jokes is that less seasoned scouters may not recognize that they are "jokes"; and even a few seasoned ones may misconstrue things. That can lead to some truly unfortunate outcomes.

Sorry!!! How do tents made from uniforms work? Most of our scouts are too small to make it alone, so does it act as a patrol activity? Again, sorry for the terrible thought; but it has been nagging at me to post. Old guy humor (?) I guess.

In regard to overlooked individuals in the founding of BSA, one must consider Robinson, from the YMCA. It is very possible that without his early contributions and support, BSA would have foundered. He was instrumental in landing West, which may have been the most important piece of the initial efforts. He chose to return to his position with the YMCA. If he had not, he like would be one of the "founders" for sure.

Mostly because he was not directly involved in any major way with the actual program. He was a strong supporter of B.P. and a friend, and B.P. credited Burnham with giving him a lot of knowledge that was helpful to development of the eventual final plan; but Burnham was too involved in his many personal adventures to be anything more than a resource from which all the main founders found help. Burnham's scouting was more that of the military or frontier type, rather than what eventually became "Scouting", as developed by B.P.

Few thoughts and a question. Adults should make every effort to be polite to youth in their interactions. And, if they over-react, or do something out of bounds, they should be willing to apologize if necessary. On the other hand, youth need to respect adults, at least partly, simply because they "are" adults. We have far too many people who seem to think "whatever 'I' want, feel, or think is all that matters", and that they therefore can ignore or disrespect anyone with whom they disagree. Unfortunately, this is the example too many kids see in many adults today, and so they model it. Over the past couple of decades, "attitude" has become a far more difficult problem with youth, and it is not missing from scout groups. So, sometimes, maybe more often than in the past, adults may not have truly earned respect; but they may also not deserve "disrespect". Tough call sometimes; but I must still side with mature adults in most cases, given enough knowledge and perspective. The question; "why is using personal equipment even an issue?" I do not see how that could even be a problem; unless somehow, someone thinks the troop then is responsible for it should something happen to it. It certainly has never been a problem in our unit. Eventually, most scouts tend to have their own basic equipment.

In regard to the stat chart from 2008: It certainly suggests that there are still crews sponsored by "traditional" BSA. Of course, one must wonder how, if all such groups were moved to Exploring. But, there are other possibilities. They might be poor reporting by councils; they may have since been moved, because they had yet to do so when this was compiled; they might be LDS crews that are actually Varsity, and are in LDS communities. Hopefully, the errors have mostly been fixed by now. But no matter what; the entire argument is selfish and petty, and really has little or no positive impact, as it just puts a good community program out of business. Of course, those that fight so hard to have their way really do not care, which tells us more about them than anything else. You all should be so "proud". Okay; have fun. Ignoring this from on out.

Just for clarity; the fire and police units noted are part of Exploring, which is part of Learning for Life. As pointed out numerous times, they are an off shoot of BSA, but have "different" requirements for membership. Yes, "one" judge has ruled that the branch is still in violation; but that is a "local" decision and certainly has not been universally decided for the whole country. And, I have to say Merlyn; since when do you "tell" anyone is the BSA what to do? You can suggest, or complain, or whatever; but you do not have the authority to "tell" them what to do, or how to define certain terms or determine "actual" legality of things in BSA decisions and actions. Ed; please consider just ignoring Merlyn rather than continuing to either let him bait you, or attempting to bait him. Both of you simply appear in a less than positive light with your adolescent bickering. JMHO of course.

There are two different types of "feeder" packs. One is a unit sponsored by the same group, often with a similar number with an extra digit. The other is a pack that simply traditionally feeds into a particular troop for various reasons, often family and friend related. Under the new registration formats at National, a related unit, sponsored by the same group, can actually "promote" cubs from the pack directly. They cannot "promote" cubs from non affiliated units. So, paperwork wise, that can be and advantage. But, having a regular feed certainly makes a huge difference. Even a few each year helps with balance going forward. If you end up with the big gap in the middle, it can kill the unit due to lack of leader aged scouts in the middle and partially disconnected almost aged out scouts, as noted by someone else.

Usually, it would seem simply forming a new troop, or even two in this case, might be the best solution. You also might look at breaking out your seniors and forming a Venture crew if you do not already have one. In a few instances, due to history and keeping the direct connection to a unit number, I have heard of troops simply splitting and meeting on two different nights, or two different locations on the same night; but they continue as one unit on paper and for district and council activity. That of course means having a large pool of leaders from which to draw. I wish I had even a little of that problem. We lost both of our long time feeder packs in the past five years, and the other packs basically continue to go elsewhere. We have almost disappeared due to few new members, since we have not on going pack affiliation anymore. We have tried to get a pack going, but so far it has floundered and also is not growing. The few webloes that it had just came into the troop, and the younger boys, of which there were only six, suddenly were gone due to 3 families picking up and moving out of the area, and one simply stopping his participation when the others went. So, we have a number, but pretty much no pack at this point. Hopefully we can rejuvenate it somehow; but I have to focus on the troop. Funny, we have a willing and cooperative sponsor, a great meeting place in which we have met since 1928, yet we have trouble getting members. Being on the "wrong end" of town is a factor I'm afraid. But we persevere. Good luck with your "problem".

Mine was a 502 Bad Gateway this time. Maybe it is the weight of the never ending thread???;-)

Ahhhhhhhh!! Rational and common sense comments. How refreshing. Thanks!!

Gee; that sounds familiar. What was it, about 110 posts back I suggested something similar? Good luck.

Likely impossible to say, if you mean "all" of them. Now if you are referring only to merit badge and rank insignia, and only the Boy Scout portion, one could likely come up with a good approximation. Add in the cubs, various senior programs over the years, and Lone Scout, and it would get next to impossible I would think. Just an opinion.

Okay; we just got a reason to pass the bill. Rush Limbaugh is promising to leave the country should it be passed. Says he will move to Puerto Rico, which I understand already has National Health Insurance. How many will miss him, should he actually do it?

Until last year, when I became Medicare eligible, my only affordable care was through the absolute minimum level of VA coverage. While it was/is better than some have available, it certainly was not particularly convenient, especially for basic stuff. Why was that? I got down sized and was very soon "priced out" of coverage, as has been discussed over and over here and in the media. I can see a lot of reasons why there are concerns about the insurance companies, as well as areas of the medical providers too. We read about the salaries of the people on the top of these companies, and they are often as obscene as those of the top banking heads. We read about "a few" doctors who are multi-millionaires doing specialties that often are seen as unnecessary, while apparently opting to ignore basic care to those who cannot pay. But, these same doctors will appear as "wonderful saviors" when they suddenly find the ability to bring someone from another country and do miraculous things. While few would want that child or special case to suffer, it still makes you wonder where these people find the resources when we have basic suffering that goes untreated here in our own communities. I suspect that "most" doctors do not make obscene profits and live up to their oaths as best they can. A few literally struggle almost as much as those to whom they reach out. Considering the training and dedication it takes, we should not begrudge care givers "comfortable" life styles. But, we who are on the lower part of the societal pot also likely often wonder "why" some seem to never have "enough comfort". While hard work should be rewarded, and innovation as well, it is hard to fault the majority in our society who question why those "very few" seem never to "have enough". Pardon my naivete, but why is a million dollars a year not enough to live on, especially if it is supplemented with other perks, such as access to places to stay and ways to get there without paying. Every time I look at my own life, I see that there was a short period, when I was still fully employed, and so was she, that we pretty much had no concerns. And we were no where nearly as well "compensated" as CEO's and the top echelons directly below them. So, a few questions. Should hospitals really be "for profit"? Should there be a "ceiling" on how much is enough, for heads of large companies? Wouldn't society, and shareholders, possibly be better served if the extreme compensation was paid to those who "actually are responsible, the workers in the business". There are really no easy answers to these problems. But until that "huge gap" between most of us and a few starts to close, we will continue to have more and more upset and rebellious people. But, "most of us" still need to recognize that "needs" and "wants" are two different things. If we cannot pay, then, if not a necessity, we need to accept that we do not need it at the moment. We need to, as a society, get back to taking responsibility for our own choices and actions. That includes "some type of Tort reform", not only for medical suits, but civil and accident cases as well. Okay, I guess I need to take off the "rose glasses" again.

Can we have pie before the nap??