skeptic

Calico: As I see it, this has nothing to do with adding requirements. It has to do with living up to the Scout Oath, and the definition of Spirit. Not maintaining at least average grades, if one does not have special issues, is simply not "doing their best", as I noted earlier. And that IS my responsibility as a SM. I have yet to have a parent complain; matter of fact, they have agreed with me in the few instances this has come up. What we consider important in interpreting our role as counselor when doing conferences is very subjective. But I personally expect more perhaps than some might, especially at the higher levels of advancement. I suspect that no matter what I say, many will consider me to be out of line. But when we say "A Scout Is .....", we are putting forth the expectation that they will actually adhere, "the best they can", to the Law, and as an extension, the Oath. JMHO

Again, too many people beying at shadows and grinding axes. While there may be a bit of tilt towards LDS pressure, there does not seem to be that much in our area, or the ones in which I was involved earlier. They are still held to the same requirements on district and council levels, other than accommodating their camping schedules. Just like Scientology, Catholicism, or other examples, there are people who have issues with them; and you will not convince them of anything positive, no matter what you say. They already have their minds set. Sort of like one of our favorite "debaters" here on this forum. As always, just my own views and observations.

So, while not knowing from the material presented, I would not be surprised if this assignment piggy backed on other material already completed, and perhaps only required finding additional pieces and putting it together. There is a chance that there had even been a preliminary mention of its coming. I know that in the middle schools in which I have subbed, there often have been a final assignment noted related to a longer term set of related material. Also, it is very common for kids to "waste" considerable class time that could be used for prep for these things. I would wager that the overall "research" time would be 2 hours or less at that grade level, and then a couple more hours of putting it together. So, since it was due on a Tuesday, there was even adequate time with an outing. It would have simply required better time management, as has been noted, and perhaps a dedication to focusing on it immediately on returning home. Whatever the case, this will hopefully be a good learning experience. Engineer, I sincerely hope that your son will realize the error of his way sooner, than later. Just for a note, and I realize that some will say I am adding requirements, but I expect my scouts going for the 3 higher ranks, to be at least "C" students, and not be flunking anything, unless they can prove to me that they have made sincere effort, but just cannot get it. That does happen; but they usually do not have issues with other things at the same time. Obviously, this would not apply to kids with "special" problems. To me, Scout Spirit includes getting at least average grades or better, and "doing their best" in school, not just scouts.

Once again, some individuals are fuming unnecessarily. The Museum has a very nice web site which can be reviewed along with the materials which might be sent via mail. This is not a difficult requirement with which to deal. Personally, I would have hoped to see a bit stronger requirement for the BSA history time line and so on; but it is overall very well done. As with any merit badge, we would hope that the counselor might set some basic expectations for a boy that chooses to do the badge. Most likely I will end up a counselor, and certainly will have my personal interpretations on a couple of them. Have to get a pamphlet to review first, though.

Possibly this would be a lesser concern if the other CO's actually bothered to vote. In my experience, almost nobody votes in reality, except the actual executive board members. Unless someone gets out there and pushes the COR's to actually do their jobs, that will not change, unfortunately. This does on rare occasion happen, but usually only when someone gets peeved enough to wrangle the voters to respond.

Scoutnut: Where are you getting your info'? Did I miss something? Went back and reviewed, and there is no mention of grade, ADHD, or additional details in that regard. So, your comments do not make any sense to me. If I missed something, please point it out. Otherwise, you are completely off track here.

Yep; God, family, school all come first if a conflict happens and can not be solved. Employment too would fit here if the young man had a job, though he hopefully would work with the boss in that regard. JMHO

Very good point that "some" units are not well run; this applies to the whole sphere, not just LDS. In our area,there tends to be a bit of contention at times, but it has softened over the years. Most importantly, as I see, is that the LDS here has made it a point to "attend roundtable", have "trained" people whenever possible, and participate as much as practical in the council and district activities. Problems most common are in record keeping, and the movement from unit to unit, as it confuses tracking advancement, especially when verifying Eagle. Because of the separate unit issue, they tend to be much smaller overall as well. I also see a bit of an issue with the leadership model most common for them; it tends to change too often, and so there is a lot of lost stability that comes with people in place for longer periods. Realistically, troops with leaders of 3 or more years tend to be more stable, as long as they are trained and have "enough" leaders to take the pressure off the SM and CC. These are just my observations. But over the years, I have seen a number of very strong LDS units. Talking to the leader(s), I have found that they specifically asked "to stay in place", and were allowed to. Still, most LDS scouters in our area are very dedicated. And many work independently of their stake assignment on our district and council level; though they still are technically under the church's broader dictum related to scouting.

My experience has been that most of the time it is counter productive. But, every parent approaches things differently, and each scout responds differently. That said, most of the "I finished it, now I'm done" Eagles were likely coerced to start with. While the skills of the required badges are apparent, the less visible element is the development of "personal initiative" and "character". The more self motivated, the more these things are apparent and will serve them going forward. JMHO

Duhhh! Another indicator that I am still living in the 60's. I still have a college footlocker, and it is way too large for practical shipping. Thanks for unmuddling my head. Now know what to look for.

Have tried to get an answer regarding the notes on the jamboree site in the staff section that we need to have a footlocker. This is not something that is simple, or inexpensive to ship. Is this something actually needed, or just a suggestion; or do they furnish them? I lived out of duffles in the past two I attended. Thanks

Please; enough. Must we rehash this whole thing "again". Close it out.

Guess I should read more carefully. The service work would satisfy the 1 hour service requirement. But the work for compass, and so on, are not normally counted towards other related requirements, especially merit badges. They MAY work on requirements for all three lower ranks concurrently though, just not generally use the same work for multiple requirements. Now for swimming for 2nd and 1st; the 50 yard requirement can be part of the 100 yard requirement. But that work normally would have nothing to do with the swimming portion of the merit badge, other than to meet the prelim requirement to have completed those elements of rank prior to, or concurrently with the "start" of the badge and the "swim check". Anyway, that is the way we normally apply these things. Others may have slightly different thoughts, but they likely are very similar.

Yes, it should.

Congratulations to Justin for his positive outcome after a difficult ordeal. And kudos to "Mom" for sticking with it and encouraging him to persevere. But, as Huzzar said; time to put this one to bed for good.

Thank you Beavah for the link to the article. I agree, it weighs the issue very evenly, and makes a number of very important points regarding the broader consequences.

As far as trading at Jambo is concerned, he should simply remember that he no longer is supposed to trade with youth. In reality, there will be no shortage of adults with whom he can trade; so that should not hinder his fun and possible improvement of his field of interest. Jamboree guidelines are very specific. And he needs to adhere to them. Since he is 18, and going to Jambo, what is his position? Is he going as part of the Arrow Corps at Jamboree? He would then be part of a large group of "tweeners", 18-21 year old scouts. Again, a fertile ground for trading. Good luck to him.

Yes!! Common sense still does survive. Great comments Eamonn. Like the part about taking the fun out. Had Camporee this past weekend, and minor issue in that realm. Have two brand new cross over boys on the outing. Saturday, one of the event staff is walking through; her job is safety among others. These two have crawled up a large oak branch to a fork and are just having a good time; maybe 8 feet from the ground at best on a branch that is over a foot thick. She tells me that they cannot climb the tree; and of course I pretty much tell her they are boys, and that is what they do. Later we cleared the air of any misunderstanding, but we cannot take away every possible danger. Sure, they could have fallen; but it was unlikely. Plus it happened that both of their dads were there. She was simply "following the rules" established with the ever present fear of litigation. "Common Sense", and "preserving a modicum of natural instinctive fun".

Guess my question or comment was unclear. My gripe is mostly with those that somehow are able to obtain these items and use them to make a profit. Obviously, that does not seem to bother some; and others seem to have missed the intent of the comment. Got to go worry about more important things. Have COR this weekend, and have brand new kids and leaders. Should be interesting.

We all know that his will lead to more suits; it is inevitable. No matter how much has been done in the meantime, it appears that things will be judged based on emotion and the continuing media bias and sensationalism towards anything of this nature. Certainly there is a "big pocket" mentality here, as well as judging things from more than 2 decades ago on today's laws and responses. Still, perhaps more could have been done. Does it merit the ridiculous sums of money? The idea that "keeping records", which due to their content, should be kept private, is a cover-up is simply ludicrous. Really another "Catch 22" situation. Find it interesting that the courts apparently instructed National to remove their response to the verdict from the National web site; I guess they think it will somehow conflict with the secondary ruling. Meantime, the press and internet blogs can continue to demonize and worse without being stopped. Does not quite appear to be fair; but I did not actually see the response before it was removed, so perhaps there was a good reason for that decision, other than tying their hands. Hopefully this too will be overcome sooner than later, and we can get back to trying to run a program. The real concern is that with every one of these that happen, there are more limitations put on what and how we do things. At some point, no one will want to be involved, as they will be afraid of what "could" happen when these warped people find a way around, or someone drops the ball in the protections in place.

For me, what seems distasteful, is the appearance that "a few" are somehow obtaining items they should be using for personal use, and immediately turning around and offering them for sale, often at a very substantial profit. I understand both the historical and collection connections; but I am talking about the blatant abuse of the privilege of buying certain items meant for a limited use or audience. There is a huge difference between selling "old" material, and buying currently for sale material intended for a particular activity or period, then putting it up for sale. I too have bought many things for my historical collection; and I have sold a few items as well. But none of them have been current, nor intended for use by a specialized upcoming event by the specific participants. To me, as I have noted, it just seems dishonest. JMHO

Probably just my own outdated perception of honor and integrity, but I am really annoyed by how many items appear on eBay that are supposed to be restricted to specific participants or "earned". It is one thing to offer older items; but current ones seem to me to be out of line. Currently, there are at least 3, likely others I have not seen, "Dealers" there that are listing Jamboree items, 2010 limited patches for rank and office, and OA items. The questions that come to mind are: How do they get them?; Are some scout stores simply selling them to whomever?; Are they actually involved in Scouting (having seller ratings in the thousands would hint at not likely)?; And, if they are involved in Scouting, does the concept of "Honor" and "Trustworthiness" have a more modern connotation than I understand as a "vintage scouter"? Waiting for snide comments, but hoping for some sincere thoughts.

In regard to A.P.Hill, you will find if you go back and look, that over the years the BSA has paid large amounts to cover various costs at the Jambo. They also have built or developed areas at their expense that will remain for use going forward. The entire arrangement has been beneficial for the Army, as well as BSA. The base has had the opportunity to develop and practice emergency support procedures by hosting the event over the years, training really hard to simulate. Obviously the medical response to heat issues and lightning are well known as challenges recently. But, when hurricane Bob hit the site in 1985, they had a far greater challenge. And they met it well. The the efficiency with which they gathered wet bedding in order to dry it, and issued temporary blankets to about 80% of the participants was remarkable. The interaction of the military and BSA has always been a mutually beneficial one.

Think it is supposed to be a blue parrot with a yellow beak. Not likely a dog, since dog care still exists. JMO.

Yeah Beavah, I would not hold my breath. That's for sure. "M" would have to focus on something beyond his own ego.