skeptic

Agree with Eagle92 overall. I do, personally, count additional summer camps as two camping days towards the camping merit badge and OA, just like a long weekend camp. But, they still only get one whole week counted towards that merit badge.

"For homosexuality to be fully accepted as moral behavior, the culture will have to restrict, discriminate against and eventually out law the practice of religion. The culture will sacrifice one for the other. It wont be the first time in history, it was how our county was founded." Anyone care to compare to Greece or Rome? Just asking!

Scoutgroove; If you can find a copy, look at the now defunct "Rank and File"; I still have it, but it no longer is viable except for a few areas, as they opted to quit fighting to get things approved with National. But it had/has many of the things already noted, including the ability to export to Excel and Word. Was really quite flexible, and overall a good program, or at least so I felt. I lost my records unfortunately when I had a hard drive issue. Thought I had backed it up, but did not. That was one of the areas in which it was hard to use, and I tended to not make the effort due to its difficulty, or maybe simply incompatibility with my system for some reason.

"While there really are aggressive, in-your-face, atheists"; Where?? :-}

I would wager that a large percentage of those complaining the President did not attend would be complaining just as loudly had he done so, and security related issues had made the show unbearable in some manner. Let's be honest; most of the ones upset are not happy with "anything he does". Time to drop it, and try to remember what is really important; living the Oath and Law to the best of our ability, and teaching our wards the same if possible.

Trevorum; I would say it is more interpretation of "religion" skews some people's thinking. There is no indication that the suicide bombers' religion says kill people; it is their warped understanding of the writings, or the misguided directions by their leaders.

Hope you are not holding your breath Beavah. Once again, you are asking for rationality and common sense. Not likely!

One of my concerns the past couple of Jambo's, which I did not attend, was the amount of merit badges "earned" at the Jambo. So, I made it a point to visit the midway and observe. Overall, it did not seem as if boys were being "handed" the badges. A number of the booths specifically noted that a scout was likely to only get a partial, unless he had valid verification of some prior completions. Certainly, at least in the areas I observed, the boys were required to actually do things, and were also tested. The men and women running the activities were very conscientious and worked extremely hard to accommodate the masses (in the most popular badges). Certainly was superior to many summer camp offerings, at least in my observation. What think others that might have valid observations from this Jambo, and others?

Personally, I am truly disappointed that some "Scouters" seem to have lost perspective on what the Law and Oath stand for, and are setting such a poor example for our youth. The booing is a direct reflection of what the scouts have seen, very possibly from some leaders, neighbors, and, sadly, very likely familial adults. We "Should" be better than that.

THIS HAS BEEN RE-POSTED TO HERE FROM THE JAMBOREE THREAD WHERE IT HAD A NUMBER OF RESPONSES. I would like opinions about the "Patch of the Day" being limited to so few, 2010. I know that quite a few were in some Staff hands, more or less, due to arrangements with certain T.P. individuals. Personally, I felt it was not a wise decision, and was truly unfair to the kids, as well as staffers who had to work odd shifts and had very little chance to get there early enough, or at all. There really was no reason to make the limit. If they had made 10-20 thousand, they still would have sold them most likely, and made more profit as well. Then we would not see them going on eBay already for hundreds of dollars. An individual who said "he was the one that decided to do it" informed me that the only complaints he had were from Staff, that the kids were not unhappy at all. I find this to be unlikely. Hopefully when we have appraisals on line, they will get feed back that is not simply pie in the sky, made up. Again, only personal opinion, and it was already noted in Jamboree Today it would not happen, but they should take orders for the whole set and then make enough to allow all participants who wanted them to get them if they wished. After the fact. Sort of like the "Farly's Folly", infamous stamp error propagated by the Postmaster General, Farley. He printed a huge quantity of stamps to duplicate an error he made; effectively, he cut off the scarcity and stopped the speculation and so on. Also thought that patch trading was overboard and likely should be restricted to certain locations and times. That way kids would do more activities, and possibly the trading could be more closely monitored. Finally, maybe it is time to take a breath and start to limit to somewhat limit the quantity of patches being put out. Many kids likely cannot afford to buy them in such quantity, so they simply do not get the opportunity. So, will wait to see the thoughts. Still, the event itself was great overall. Many opportunities, especially in transportation and communication to Staff. Will be interesting to see what occurs in 2013. Likely to be very spartan.

Wonder if this subject should be moved to the "Patch Trading Central"? If someone in control wishes, makes sense to me. Thanks for comments to date.

Mr. Boyce; Found that I really liked keeping my wallet in the left lower pocket with the zipper. I was less uncomfortable, and more secure it seemed.

I would like opinions about the "Patch of the Day" being limited to so few, 2010. I know that quite a few were in some Staff hands, more or less, due to arrangements with certain T.P. individuals. Personally, I felt it was not a wise decision, and was truly unfair to the kids, as well as staffers who had to work odd shifts and had very little chance to get there early enough, or at all. There really was no reason to make the limit. If they had made 10-20 thousand, they still would have sold them most likely, and made more profit as well. Then we would not see them going on eBay already for hundreds of dollars. An individual who said "he was the one that decided to do it" informed me that the only complaints he had were from Staff, that the kids were not unhappy at all. I find this to be unlikely. Hopefully when we have appraisals on line, they will get feed back that is not simply pie in the sky, made up. Again, only personal opinion, and it was already noted in Jamboree Today it would not happen, but they should take orders for the whole set and then make enough to allow all participants who wanted them to get them if they wished. After the fact. Sort of like the "Farly's Folly", infamous stamp error propagated by the Postmaster General, Farley. He printed a huge quantity of stamps to duplicate an error he made; effectively, he cut off the scarcity and stopped the speculation and so on. Also thought that patch trading was overboard and likely should be restricted to certain locations and times. That way kids would do more activities, and possibly the trading could be more closely monitored. Finally, maybe it is time to take a breath and start to limit to somewhat limit the quantity of patches being put out. Many kids likely cannot afford to buy them in such quantity, so they simply do not get the opportunity. So, will wait to see the thoughts. Still, the event itself was great overall. Many opportunities, especially in transportation and communication to Staff. Will be interesting to see what occurs in 2013. Likely to be very spartan.

Good luck Pack; keep in occasional touch. Find a local scout group if time allows and then report back to us how it appears compared to our own and others with which you are familiar. YIS

Perhaps she should review; my Woodbadge shows on my records. It is definitely training, and not an award. Granted, mine is under the older version; and my staffing the new course the first year out does not show up anywhere, even though it too was additional training. No matter.

"Scouters and Scouts are not like other people"! Their rules and guidelines make them "super humans"! They "never" veer into any grey areas, nor deviate from the exact definition(s) of their Law and Oath. None of them "ever" look for an "easier way", or a more rational and balanced perspective. They are ALWAYS in agreement as to the meaning of their tenets. They ALWAYS perform exactly as they should. Why? How? BECAUSE THEY ARE SCOUTERS AND SCOUTS!(This message has been edited by skeptic)

In S Cal we have few camps that offer patrol cooking at all, mostly due to fire restrictions, and also because of possibly too much focus on merit badge sessions which fill a lot of time, especially in mornings. But, even the camps that offer it have found the need to do central feed much of the time, due to complete closure of sites to any kind of fire, including gas stoves. Central feed is often slow and not overly appetizing, so the time factor is a bit misleading. Travel to the dining hall area and the waiting, followed by cleaning up by some, may almost balance it out. But, unless we had a really wet winter, we generally see severe fire closures as early as June. Skill wise, obviously, patrol cooking is better hands down.

Let us not forget that reality in most, if not all, the court cases has been "adults", mostly without real Scouting connections, suing for personal reasons. Example: Randall twins were happy as larks until "Dad", publicity seeking lawyer type, decided to make an issue. I have found it interesting that when one of the twins was interviewed about it as a cub and asked how he explained things such as the wonders of the outdoors; he stated that "Mother Nature" was responsible. Uhhhh; isn't she a Goddess representation? So, youth ae far more malleable, and are in continuous rebooting stages as they develop. In the "real world", black and white seldom are reached; there is generally a shading one way or the other.

Most appears to be there now, but I spent endless time at least 2 or 3 different periods resubmitting troop records for training, including my own. But none of the Philmont things show up, and I attended 5 courses over the years, starting in 1977. Have the certs someplace, so it really does not matter, other than accuracy. It is now better than it was. Would make far better sense to have always had the same registration number, maybe even carrying over the youth number; though that might be questionable on some levels. Still, once a SS# is issued, it stays; so at least link it to whatever else BSA records cover. I at least now know who to contact again about taking the on-line YP course. Suspect will lose another 3-5 older adults who have stayed on for personal reasons, or recently aged scouts. Cannot make them do it. Guess I should go back to trying to sew Jambo things on shirts, as I leave next Wednesday. Appears I have been moved to TP-A; was in B. Hope the heat settles down a bit.

Beavah; You are not surprised are you? Pseudo intellectuals generally have very narrow minds. Not sure how much more precise you could have been. Shield up.

Having been a NESA rep for a former council, in the seventies, I know that it CAN be beneficial if we work at it. Our district was able to find a number of unknown resources during that period. However, ever since coming to my current council, I have not seen NESA be as good a resource as it could be. They technically sponsor the annual Eagle Recognition, but I do not see members actively involved in doing so currently, though in the 80's they were. We even displayed the NESA banner. Why not now? I am not sure. The list that each council has as a resource from NESA is a tool that HAS, on occasion, brought our local council strong new leaders and council support. But the potential, in my opinion, is still not being tapped. Why? I really feel it is mostly because "someone" on the council level either does not want it to do so for some reason, or they simply do not understand its possibilities. I KNOW that there are chapters in some councils that do approach the potential of NESA. Here, we have yet to find the resolve or right catalyst to do so. While it has such potential for service and strengthening units directly, I see its use in most councils as only a fund raising resource. That is important; but that is not the intent. I keep hoping that someone with enough clout will finally reach beyond that here; but so far they have not. My own offers to work with it, have fallen on deaf ears; and I am afraid it has something to do with my lack of substantial financial or political resources. Still, one can hope. In the meantime, try to encourage it anyway, as even one "found" Eagle might be the key at some point.

All the way, but with coed option on local levels. JMTCW

I would much rather they seriously look at the rules for adult selection. Over the years I have had two, at least, adults who were major pieces of a viable outdoor program, but who did not have enough vacation time to both go to camp and take the rest of the family on a family vacation. Because they did not go to a "summer camp", they were determined to not be eligible, even though they had spent well over 30 days and nights out on weekends, some of which were 3 or even 4 days and nights. When, after 4 years, I wrote a letter to the lodge on behalf of one; the lodge flat turned him down. While he eventually came to terms, and managed to get to camp the following year, at the expense of a "family" vacation with his wife and two daughters, he was approved. But, who is doing more? The ones who do the monthly outdoor activities of day hikes and overnights; who get outdoor training; who get certified for first aid; who take "Trail Boss"? Or those who go to summer camp once, and occasionally do an overnight; but refuse to get the training for whatever reason? National OA needs to look at this requirement and make an "and/or" clause for nights camping, and possibly outdoor training. Just my opinion; but much more important than patch or sash distinctions.

I contacted National supply regarding the selling of "current" restricted items on eBay, mainly the historical merit badges and 2010 advancement patches. These items are supposed to be earned, and as far as I know, have a paper trail through the scout store or office. Yet there are individuals selling them as sets and piecemeal. How are they getting them in the first place? Our local store refused to sell them in quantity to anyone, and even those of us she knows well who are historians only could purchase one complete set for their personal collection. Yet there is a guy in the council area who is one of the most egregious sellers in this area. So, he either somehow got a direct buy from a supplier, or has an in in a neighboring council or through Scoutstuff. EBay said if they were contacted by National Supply or Corporate, they could stop it; but they have to have a direct "stop and desist" order from the controlling officials. What is even more upsetting to me, is that the one in our council area appears to be an Eagle, or claims to be on his eBay store. "A Scout is Trustworthy". Do not believe that finding a way to profit on these items is being honest. But, I have been told that I am naive and out of touch. Of course, we also have the people that seem willing to pay ridiculous prices for these "restricted" items. That must mean that at least some areas have stores like ours that try to adhere to the rules.

I discovered today that there apparently are two different memorabilia events scheduled during the jamboree at hotels in Fredericksburg. It appears, from the descriptions, that they will likely have a lot of things of interest historically. Does anyone know if it is something we could visit while working on staff? If there is a way, I certainly would be interested in perusing them. I am a paper and ephemera guy, so these are the places often to see some unusual items. Thanks.