skeptic

Not sure if this is the real place to put this, but certainly is related. Just got off the phone with a contact at Vandenburg AFB on the central coast of California. Was trying to see what we could do as a unit there on a weekend trip. The nice young woman told me that they no longer offer weekend tours to scouts or other groups; supposedly due to staffing issues. But, there was a time when you never had a problem staying on base, often in the gym, or some specific area set aside for youth groups, which generally were scouts or similar organizations. At least she was able to confirm that we really have little chance of doing any interesting and exciting thing there, as we used to do a decade or more ago. Same seems to be the case at Edwards, where they no longer have the on base camping location, and do not allow anything beyond week day tours. So, what are the thoughts from others here. Is it really due to staffing, or is it more to do with pressures from our friendly PC people? Seems to me that most of our tours in the past, other than having use of a few facilities like the campground, youth center, and pool, were staffed by volunteers anyway. Though, they may have been allowed to do the volunteering as part of their regular duties I suppose; not sure, as we often had tour leaders in civies back then, apparently doing it on their own time. Seems to me that the exposure to the "real" military mission activities on some basis is nothing but positive for the military. The tours we did in the past were always well attended and favorites to try to do every year. So, when they "suddenly" became pretty much impossible, unless you have the right contact, it was a real blow to the programing.

OGE; That is a matter of opinion.

Pack; I can guarantee, you will know. Try catching piglets to castrate them, while the mother is in the pen. Keeping her occupied long enough to grab them a few at a time is an adventure to be sure; and she lets you know her feelings very loudly. The same goes for catching a 300+ lb hog to ring it, so it will quit rooting the gardens. When you finally corral it long enough to get the ringer on its snout, you think its previous noise was minor. Fun and games on the farm.

Yes, it does appear that there likely are a number of high profile type patches that may very well be "made up" ones. Right now on eBay, one guy is selling one that supposedly is real that says "I saw the president of the United States". I somehow do not think this is an authentic issue, as there was no sign of it until a week after the event was over. The same guy is also selling a "black" staff medallion which is supposedly authentic. But, it was never offered in the catalog as far as I know, and also I do not remember seeing it offered in the TP. I bought the official event one, so know what it looks like. Are a few other suspicious ones on eBay at the moment; but people still buy them. Too bad that some feel the need to make a fun pastime more difficult and cumbersome.

You can only order if you were a participant, as you need your Jambo number, as well as logging into Scoutstuff. Hopefully, this will put the brakes on the nonsense on eBay, at least for these. There are a few other restricted, or limited items in demand there, such as the Mike Rowe patch, which only ran $3 in the trading post. Guess I should have grabbed the last few there, instead of just one. Also, the fancy embroidered rounds, and the triangle are popular. I never saw the triangle at all, but did get the jacket and shirt versions of the round. Hope they learned a lesson from this.

Yes, you need to ABSOLUTELY USE "IE" when doing the on-line courses in order to get the completions. For whatever reason, they will not complete with other browsers.

Agree with Eagle92 overall. I do, personally, count additional summer camps as two camping days towards the camping merit badge and OA, just like a long weekend camp. But, they still only get one whole week counted towards that merit badge.

"For homosexuality to be fully accepted as moral behavior, the culture will have to restrict, discriminate against and eventually out law the practice of religion. The culture will sacrifice one for the other. It wont be the first time in history, it was how our county was founded." Anyone care to compare to Greece or Rome? Just asking!

Scoutgroove; If you can find a copy, look at the now defunct "Rank and File"; I still have it, but it no longer is viable except for a few areas, as they opted to quit fighting to get things approved with National. But it had/has many of the things already noted, including the ability to export to Excel and Word. Was really quite flexible, and overall a good program, or at least so I felt. I lost my records unfortunately when I had a hard drive issue. Thought I had backed it up, but did not. That was one of the areas in which it was hard to use, and I tended to not make the effort due to its difficulty, or maybe simply incompatibility with my system for some reason.

"While there really are aggressive, in-your-face, atheists"; Where?? :-}

I would wager that a large percentage of those complaining the President did not attend would be complaining just as loudly had he done so, and security related issues had made the show unbearable in some manner. Let's be honest; most of the ones upset are not happy with "anything he does". Time to drop it, and try to remember what is really important; living the Oath and Law to the best of our ability, and teaching our wards the same if possible.

Trevorum; I would say it is more interpretation of "religion" skews some people's thinking. There is no indication that the suicide bombers' religion says kill people; it is their warped understanding of the writings, or the misguided directions by their leaders.

Hope you are not holding your breath Beavah. Once again, you are asking for rationality and common sense. Not likely!

One of my concerns the past couple of Jambo's, which I did not attend, was the amount of merit badges "earned" at the Jambo. So, I made it a point to visit the midway and observe. Overall, it did not seem as if boys were being "handed" the badges. A number of the booths specifically noted that a scout was likely to only get a partial, unless he had valid verification of some prior completions. Certainly, at least in the areas I observed, the boys were required to actually do things, and were also tested. The men and women running the activities were very conscientious and worked extremely hard to accommodate the masses (in the most popular badges). Certainly was superior to many summer camp offerings, at least in my observation. What think others that might have valid observations from this Jambo, and others?

Personally, I am truly disappointed that some "Scouters" seem to have lost perspective on what the Law and Oath stand for, and are setting such a poor example for our youth. The booing is a direct reflection of what the scouts have seen, very possibly from some leaders, neighbors, and, sadly, very likely familial adults. We "Should" be better than that.

THIS HAS BEEN RE-POSTED TO HERE FROM THE JAMBOREE THREAD WHERE IT HAD A NUMBER OF RESPONSES. I would like opinions about the "Patch of the Day" being limited to so few, 2010. I know that quite a few were in some Staff hands, more or less, due to arrangements with certain T.P. individuals. Personally, I felt it was not a wise decision, and was truly unfair to the kids, as well as staffers who had to work odd shifts and had very little chance to get there early enough, or at all. There really was no reason to make the limit. If they had made 10-20 thousand, they still would have sold them most likely, and made more profit as well. Then we would not see them going on eBay already for hundreds of dollars. An individual who said "he was the one that decided to do it" informed me that the only complaints he had were from Staff, that the kids were not unhappy at all. I find this to be unlikely. Hopefully when we have appraisals on line, they will get feed back that is not simply pie in the sky, made up. Again, only personal opinion, and it was already noted in Jamboree Today it would not happen, but they should take orders for the whole set and then make enough to allow all participants who wanted them to get them if they wished. After the fact. Sort of like the "Farly's Folly", infamous stamp error propagated by the Postmaster General, Farley. He printed a huge quantity of stamps to duplicate an error he made; effectively, he cut off the scarcity and stopped the speculation and so on. Also thought that patch trading was overboard and likely should be restricted to certain locations and times. That way kids would do more activities, and possibly the trading could be more closely monitored. Finally, maybe it is time to take a breath and start to limit to somewhat limit the quantity of patches being put out. Many kids likely cannot afford to buy them in such quantity, so they simply do not get the opportunity. So, will wait to see the thoughts. Still, the event itself was great overall. Many opportunities, especially in transportation and communication to Staff. Will be interesting to see what occurs in 2013. Likely to be very spartan.

Wonder if this subject should be moved to the "Patch Trading Central"? If someone in control wishes, makes sense to me. Thanks for comments to date.

Mr. Boyce; Found that I really liked keeping my wallet in the left lower pocket with the zipper. I was less uncomfortable, and more secure it seemed.

I would like opinions about the "Patch of the Day" being limited to so few, 2010. I know that quite a few were in some Staff hands, more or less, due to arrangements with certain T.P. individuals. Personally, I felt it was not a wise decision, and was truly unfair to the kids, as well as staffers who had to work odd shifts and had very little chance to get there early enough, or at all. There really was no reason to make the limit. If they had made 10-20 thousand, they still would have sold them most likely, and made more profit as well. Then we would not see them going on eBay already for hundreds of dollars. An individual who said "he was the one that decided to do it" informed me that the only complaints he had were from Staff, that the kids were not unhappy at all. I find this to be unlikely. Hopefully when we have appraisals on line, they will get feed back that is not simply pie in the sky, made up. Again, only personal opinion, and it was already noted in Jamboree Today it would not happen, but they should take orders for the whole set and then make enough to allow all participants who wanted them to get them if they wished. After the fact. Sort of like the "Farly's Folly", infamous stamp error propagated by the Postmaster General, Farley. He printed a huge quantity of stamps to duplicate an error he made; effectively, he cut off the scarcity and stopped the speculation and so on. Also thought that patch trading was overboard and likely should be restricted to certain locations and times. That way kids would do more activities, and possibly the trading could be more closely monitored. Finally, maybe it is time to take a breath and start to limit to somewhat limit the quantity of patches being put out. Many kids likely cannot afford to buy them in such quantity, so they simply do not get the opportunity. So, will wait to see the thoughts. Still, the event itself was great overall. Many opportunities, especially in transportation and communication to Staff. Will be interesting to see what occurs in 2013. Likely to be very spartan.

Good luck Pack; keep in occasional touch. Find a local scout group if time allows and then report back to us how it appears compared to our own and others with which you are familiar. YIS

Perhaps she should review; my Woodbadge shows on my records. It is definitely training, and not an award. Granted, mine is under the older version; and my staffing the new course the first year out does not show up anywhere, even though it too was additional training. No matter.

"Scouters and Scouts are not like other people"! Their rules and guidelines make them "super humans"! They "never" veer into any grey areas, nor deviate from the exact definition(s) of their Law and Oath. None of them "ever" look for an "easier way", or a more rational and balanced perspective. They are ALWAYS in agreement as to the meaning of their tenets. They ALWAYS perform exactly as they should. Why? How? BECAUSE THEY ARE SCOUTERS AND SCOUTS!(This message has been edited by skeptic)

In S Cal we have few camps that offer patrol cooking at all, mostly due to fire restrictions, and also because of possibly too much focus on merit badge sessions which fill a lot of time, especially in mornings. But, even the camps that offer it have found the need to do central feed much of the time, due to complete closure of sites to any kind of fire, including gas stoves. Central feed is often slow and not overly appetizing, so the time factor is a bit misleading. Travel to the dining hall area and the waiting, followed by cleaning up by some, may almost balance it out. But, unless we had a really wet winter, we generally see severe fire closures as early as June. Skill wise, obviously, patrol cooking is better hands down.

Let us not forget that reality in most, if not all, the court cases has been "adults", mostly without real Scouting connections, suing for personal reasons. Example: Randall twins were happy as larks until "Dad", publicity seeking lawyer type, decided to make an issue. I have found it interesting that when one of the twins was interviewed about it as a cub and asked how he explained things such as the wonders of the outdoors; he stated that "Mother Nature" was responsible. Uhhhh; isn't she a Goddess representation? So, youth ae far more malleable, and are in continuous rebooting stages as they develop. In the "real world", black and white seldom are reached; there is generally a shading one way or the other.

Most appears to be there now, but I spent endless time at least 2 or 3 different periods resubmitting troop records for training, including my own. But none of the Philmont things show up, and I attended 5 courses over the years, starting in 1977. Have the certs someplace, so it really does not matter, other than accuracy. It is now better than it was. Would make far better sense to have always had the same registration number, maybe even carrying over the youth number; though that might be questionable on some levels. Still, once a SS# is issued, it stays; so at least link it to whatever else BSA records cover. I at least now know who to contact again about taking the on-line YP course. Suspect will lose another 3-5 older adults who have stayed on for personal reasons, or recently aged scouts. Cannot make them do it. Guess I should go back to trying to sew Jambo things on shirts, as I leave next Wednesday. Appears I have been moved to TP-A; was in B. Hope the heat settles down a bit.