skeptic

Some interesting comments from a couple of net discussions about super heroes and Boy Scouts, including an excellent explanation of the often used comment of someone being "a Boy Scout". ----------------------------------------------------------------- Comics historian Allan Holtz has unearthed what he believes to be the very first serious adventure comic. In a 2002 issue of Hogan's Alley magazine (named after Richard Outcault's seminal early work, of course), Holtz described his almost accidental recent discovery, in a microfilmed archive of The Philadelphia Leader, of Bobby the Boy Scout (no relation) which predated any other known example of the genre by years. The Leader shouldn't, by the way, be confused with the same city's Ledger, a far more prominent paper whose syndicate had handled Lady Bountiful, Somebody's Stenog and more. The Leader was small and obscure, and very much not the sort of paper you'd expect to be the only source of anything interesting in the way of cartoon history. Holtz traced Bobby's strip back to its beginning, on Monday, August 21, 1911. The Boy Scouts of America had been incorporated only a year earlier, tho the scouting movement had been gathering strength for several years prior to the incorporation. Bobby embodied all the traditional scouting virtues trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly etc. He was also athletic, heroic, and all the things an adventure hero ought to be. If a boy didn't have Bobby's qualities chances are, he wanted them. Despite Bobby's youth, he repeatedly foiled criminal plots, performed daring rescues, and otherwise behaved in a thoroughly exemplary manner always aided, of course, by his Boy Scout training. Bobby the Boy Scout was only occasionally credited. When it was, the signature read F.E. Johnson. Johnson was a staff artist on the Leader, but is not known to have done any other work in comics. It was a reliable, six-times-a-week daily, which, only four years since A, Mutt had become the first such reliable daily, still wasn't a universal trait among weekday comics. It ran for at least five years, but from all indications, was long gone by the time adventure strips became common. If it was ever syndicated, or even published in a single other paper, evidence of such publication has yet to be found. So is this, indeed, the first serious adventure comic? Who knows? I think that whether being called a "boy scout" is 1) an insult, 2) a term of endearment, or 3) a compliment, is entirely subjective; and I can see the usage of the term (to describe things other than actual boy scouts), could have begun as any or all of the three, although I lean towards glib insult; and it's use probably began not long after Boy Scouts itself began, long predating Superman. -------------------------------------------------------------- I think the term "boy scout" describes moral character: an earnestness to do the right thing; an earnestness that could either be thought of as youthful when viewed with a positive light, or immature or naive when viewed from a negative light. I think Boy Scouts, with their psuedo-military culture, also conjures an association with discipline and respectfulness (again from a positive light), or The Establishment, rule-following, and squareness (from a negative light).

I too do not understand the comments about the outdoors part of the program. If anything, there are more outdoor opportunities and activities today than there were when I was a scout in the late 50's and early 60's; and far more high adventure events. Scout camp though could revert back a bit to more focus on camping, and less merit badge emphasis. Also, National should consider finding ways to not lose more local scout camps, developing ways to support smaller camps that still serve the local councils, but are not able to support themselves due to size and location. There also needs to be a way to help smaller troops compete with the juggernaut troops that have super programs with which the small units cannot compete for membership. One other thing that needs attention, is taking the pressure off of executives to constantly increase dollars and unit membership, as it demoralizes them, and makes it harder to keep them long enough to develop beyond the initial training levels, where they are more effective. And in some areas, they need to supplement local pay levels for lower level execs to meet the high cost of living. Finally, we need to find ways to accentuate the positives of scouting in the local communities. Almost everyone I speak with is more positive than negative about the organization, even those with reservations about policies. But, we need to get past the press' tendency to constantly bash the BSA, or just ignore them. We almost all have had the same comments about why do they mention so and so was a scout, or Eagle Scout as part of a headline or lead-in to a story, but you have a hard time finding anything about the huge contributions of scouting to the communities through troop projects and Eagle projects. Even , when you give them the info, they often do not use it.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

Lots of interesting comic material, both classic and recent, related to scouting in some way. I have gathered graphics from many for my archive. But Ihave not often been able to afford the best, or most unusual, such as Roy Powers or Superboy. Do have the entire Little Scouts series and hardback, as well as most of the Casper covers and ads. Still hoping to get a Dennis the Menace; but get outbid when they show occasionally. Maybe after christmas I will start sharing a few graphics on the Facebook site.

Since I have not figured out how to post graphics here, so please look at the group Facebook page for covers of a couple of comics; one is SUPERBOY, and the other one 1941 edition of ROY POWERS, EAGLE SCOUT.

It has been that way for years. You simply write two checks, or one to cover the two together, but ring them separately. We have done it that way for the past 3 years, even adding in the Quality Unit patches; just rang them separately. Not really sure what your question is.

Yes, we need moderators on occasion. For the most part, I have little problem with their decisions. This thread just seemed silly to me though, thus my rambling post near the start.

Its last throes, but yes, technically. Our support of the our future allies in Europe was already starting to draw us out of the worst of it, but it really was not quite over then.

If used as an aide by the counselor, then they are fine. But, you need to not only have them fill them out, but then go through and discuss points of the things that require that. I have occasionally told a boy to redo and be prepared to show actual knowledge and understanding of things written on a worksheet. Gee, I wonder if that is why I get fewer scouts than I did before worksheets became common? Actually think it is because so many troops seem to have their own counselors for all the Eagle badges, and the most common open choice. Bottom line is, they are a tool, like any other source.

Well Ed, you certainly seem to get "chided" often enough here. Make sure you keep a few for your potatoes. You might want to try chives as well.

Well, I just do not know what to think about all this, but I do feel that the discussion's comments on both sides leave something out that renders them of questionable value and so I cannot really weigh in well, due to my misgivings about the veracity of most of the statements made; so I guess I will wait and see if anything appears that can open my mind to accepting one comment or another; but not likely, as it is just too "fuzzy logical" in its presentation from all facets of the discussion, so let us simply agree, or disagree, but take it all as "a grain of salt"; so I am off to try and find meaty content on how to be a Scouter in all ways and manner. Merry Christmas; if you are skeptical of Christmas, then Happy Holiday; just remember that the word Christmas includes the real "Reason for the Season".

In case anyone here is interested, there is a Facebook group for this site; see below. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=6305356&ref=name#!/group.php?gid=172739770499

OGE; The outrage is where the most of them are. That is where we get the major problems, and where all but Arizona seem unable to "listen" to their constituents and do something about it. I just don't get how our state government can somehow think allowing these individuals to continue availing themselves of all these benefits. And I certainly do not understand the idea behind the "Dream Act". How are these people more important than our own "legal", but less wealthy citizens? I am all for education, but not as an added burden on me, my family, and the bankrupt state.

Back around 1960 or so, we had two students that lived above Yucca Valley, Ca. in a spot called Pioneertown, an old movie set for B westerns. They would ride their horses down the canyon to Yucca and leave them corralled, catch the bus to high school in 29 Palms 35 miles away, and then ride them back up in the late afternoon. Guess they must have had an arrangement of some sort wherever they left the horses during the day; but, cannot hardly imagine that today.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

Responsibility? That only applies to others, not me!? Another idea that has become outdated, joining "common sense", its cousin.

The public overwhelmingly supports repealing Congress!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vol; Only one piece of the Health bill was tentatively ruled unconstitutional, not the whole bill. I say tentatively, because it will surely be appealed and eventually likely end up in the SCOTUS, very possibly with other parts of its whole. But, as has been pointed out, do not expect the entire bill to be negated, as almost no one would want to eliminate the "pre-existing" part, or kids to 25, now that they are in place. JMO

Yet, at almost every school in which I have subbed the past ten years, there are kids that wait for hours for a parent or someone to pick them up. They have to sit in the office until the ride comes. And on a few occasions, I know the school has had to call youth protection authorities, as no one can be found. Meanwhile, out on the playground, they are no longer allowed to play tag or anything else that requires "touching" or possible better physical conditioning in the child to succeed. They still play dodge ball though in most schools, but I have not seen a school or park with a "see-saw" or "teeter-totter" in years; and they either have removed swings, or put in rubber beneath, while banning bailing out or going higher than about a third of an arc. Kids still do walk and ride bikes, skateboards, and scooters at most of the schools, if they are in 4th and above; but there are not very many that do. Of course, in scouts, I have seen so much over protective stuff in the last 10 years, that I simply shrug my shoulders and tell a parent that we cannot guarantee this or that, but we will not allow any real danger. Sigh.

If anyone is interested, I am posting a Scouting related Christmas themed graphic on my Facebook page almost every day. I have gleaned them from various areas of the net over the past ten or so years, and keep them in my "graphics" archive. Take a look if you are interested; http://www.facebook.com/#! Just in case the link does not work, look under Wes Fish on the site.

So, about a third were probably beyond the control of the camps in which they occurred; the tornado would have been far worse, had the scouts not done such a great job overall with the emergency; adults with health problems can only be screened so much, but they are adults and make choices; the scout sleeping, killed by lightning: what did the scouts do wrong?; adults electrocuted were foolish and should have known better. On some of the drownings, I would wonder if the activity was under the direct scout supervision, or a professional vendor who does it. And, without knowing the details, how many of the deaths happened "with" proper supervision and safety involved, but still occurred? There are a few that really do stand out as likely lack of or poor supervision and poor safety precautions. Certainly we can always do better; but reality is that sometimes these things will happen no matter how well we do to avoid them. But it would be good to have these types of occurrences discussed as part of the training programs, in order to reinforce how important it is. One death is too many, so whatever it takes to reduce the likely-hood of it happening should be done. But we cannot take all the danger out of scouting, especially the high adventure areas. And we cannot make adults act like adults and know their own limitations. Finally, I would challenge the author of this to compare the scouting record with those of similar groups, outdoor programs, and even professional river or high adventure businesses. I suspect that we would find our record is really pretty good in comparison. Then, add in just living in any community; how many more kids die due to all kinds of stupidity, negligence, and simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

I am at the point that re-reading Mark Twain's and Will Rogers' political writings seems the only way to go. Amazing how much of what they had to say can be related to today's events.

Because too few vote to start with? Half the complainers will tell you they do not vote because it makes no difference, or some other lame excuse. Yet they often are the loudest. It is embarrassing to supposedly be a "builder of democracies", yet have a citizenry that does not take advantage of the system. That infamous "silent" majority we constantly note. Any suggestions how to get them to speak up?

For an "experienced leader", this seems to be very foolish at best, and not reflective of that much leadership tenure. For whatever reason, it should not have happened. That said, all of us with any time in the program have likely had our "whewwww!" stories. I had four mid senior scouts go cross country rock hopping in Indian Cove in Joshua Tree. Before they went, we went over the "rules"; stay together; keep everyone in sight; stop when needed for everyone; start back no later than 2:30 (made sure a working watch with them). Three came back, one not with them. "Oh, he wanted to look at something on a rock a ways away, and we were tired. He said he would catch up." Steam, annoyance, worry; they turn to real panic as dusk approaches; just starting to go for ranger, when he wanders in, no worse for wear. So relieved that I barely said anything that evening. Next morning, we had a very serious talk; am afraid I may have even yelled at them for being idiots, though not sure. What did I learn? Never assume they will do what they say they will do. Do not go on outings with too few adults; this was the era of no 2 deep rule, and I only had one other with me with 10-12 kids. We were lucky, and we all learned something. It is just sad that in some cases, the lesson is tragic, rather than educational and something to look back on with a laugh and another "thank God".

So, I hate to be ignorant, but I do not see how you can edit your site info. The council comes up, but there does not appear to be any type of change or correction button. Thanks for any clarification someone might give.

In my many years as SM, I have perhaps had 2 or 3 times when I would deem the conference to be a recommendation to NOT proceed with a board. That being said, as noted, the scout may still request one. Once that occurred, and I gave the advancement chair my thoughts on why the scout was not ready, so they knew my reasoning. I would think, in those rare occasions of this issue, that a SM would do this. I did tell the scout that I would pass my recommendations to the board, so it was not a surprise. He was given a new date, with specific goals to overcome the concerns, and he took the initiative and did it. He handled it better than his parent, frankly. Thought briefly she might pull him from the unit, as it was a Life board. He eventually did complete his Eagle, and actually talked about the Life board to his Eagle board, I was told. At least in this case, it seems to have been a growing experience.

Just how do you "loose" your testicles? Is there an operation, a stretching process, or are they off running around somewhere, somehow? CPWTK