skeptic

This has been an issue of sorts for years now. But as always, we are comparing apples to oranges again. Few would disagree that First Class today is not as great an accomplishment as it was prior to 1960 or so, as the skill levels are not as great, and they have removed the "official" review past skills from the program. By that, I mean we still can find ways to reinforce many of the skills; but some are just no longer there, the things that often made the scout focus, such as signaling. But Eagle itself is actually far more difficult, due to the project. Even the absolute minimum project is more than was required prior to around 1966. I am not sure if I would have finished Eagle if I had had to do a project, as I was already working, playing sports, and so on. Would like to think I would have, but who knows. Now, we all are likely familiar with the troops we call "Eagle factories"; but there are fewer than we would think, though the ones that are there skew stats dramatically I think. We have one large troop here that averages 10 Eagles a year. I have sat on many of their BOR's, and some barely have met the requirements. Still, a surprisingly large number are actually very fine examples, in my opinion. Finally, I would have to agree with the original premise though. As a SM for over 30 years, I have seen a gradual change in the membership focus, as noted. And we have far more of the "overly concerned" parents than we once did. Surely one of the reasons we stay small, and continue to struggle to bring in webelos, is the fact that I personally try to avoid pushing kids too hard, and counsel parents to back off a lot more than once seemed needed. Our troop has fewer than 50 Eagles in just under 90 years, so we certainly would never be considered a "factory". Yet, we seem to have a pretty high proportion of boys stay through high school just the same. Interesting discussion.

Terry; Any idea when we may see a biography of Bill? Certainly needs to join the accepted icons of BSA. Thanks.

Picked up a large full square neckerchief with the above on its point; but there is no council designator. It is purple with a white border and has on odd map like design in white below a compass rose with north as a scout symbol. This is all enclosed in a white bordered triangle. Anyone have any info on this? Thanks.

Thanks for letting me know it twasn't you Pack. Think I figured it out though. It occurs, rereading it, that I had misspelled Webelos; think I wrote Webeloes. But, if that is not the reason, I would still like to know so I can avoid additional errors. Thanks.

Desert; I think most people annoyed by it are talking about "current" awards that require paperwork to get them to start with. There have been a few sellers on eBay that have somehow been able to offer the various 2010 items to anyone, often in sets, but also by piece, and they have been doing it to "make a profit", not to put in a collection. For me, it is particularly annoying to see brand new Silver Buffalo awards and Distinguished Eagle kits being offered. The really sad thing is that, assuming they are real, someone is getting them to the sellers beneath the in place rules. For me, that indicates at least two dishonest individuals who are trying to make a profit on something that is supposed to have special meaning. JMHO of course.

Whichever staff member edited my recent post, will you please contact me as to why? Other than paragraphing, I cannot figure out what might have been done. And I purposely did the paragraphing. Thanks.

Well, even 10 year old's have opinions about this I discovered yesterday morning while subbing in a class of them. Right after the flag salute, which is led by one of the students, one of the boys brought up the subject. Obviously, some were just restating a parental comment, but a couple seemed to have really given it some thought. A couple were even somewhat forgiving, though not sure if that was due to a parent discussing, or just a somewhat more mature thought process. It was kind of nice to also have one of the boys show up wearing his Webelos uniform, since it was our anniversary. Sometimes wish my troop was in the city in which I sub; I might find it easier to get Webelos to come to our troop. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Way back when, the first year as a SM at summer camp, I was overly zealous at packing to go home time, bugging the boys to make sure they checked their tents, then rechecked, then checked each others' as well. We were 6+ hours away, and I did not want to deal with missing gear and so on. The following Monday, as I was preparing for our follow up meeting, I could not find my scout pants. Of course, I had left them at camp; I remembered stringing them over the ridge pole in the tent to keep them neater. Took me weeks to arrange to get them; but the camp did finally send them to me. We had our late summer COH, and at the end, up comes the SPL and announces the boys had a special award for me. They then proceeded to present me with a Steve Scout sized pair of pants with all the signatures of all the boys and assistants that had been at camp. I still have that momento hanging on a pine stave in the corner of the scout room.

Is it my age, or is my fondness of the Jimmy Hendrix version due to its uniqueness and musical emotion?

Just for info, if you happen to be in Southern California. Our annual trade o ree is this weekend, starting this evening for general fellowship and trading, then continuing tomorrow with silent auctions, and a live auction. It is being held at the Oxnard Elks' Lodge, 801 South a Street; Oxnard, CA. They have a fish fry on Friday night which is often taken advantage of by early visitors. Check in on Saturday is between 8 and 9 in the morning, and the live auction usually is right after lunch, which traditionally is hot dogs and fries if desired. Small gathering, but good, friendly fellowship. Visit if you have time.

We have wires strung across our meeting room with ribbons and other smaller dangle items. The only things on the pole are honor or quality unit streamers. We also have a wire with old, defunct patrol flags, which adds to the overall museum look in our main meeting area. Of course, we are in our 90th year, and have been in our basement cave since 1928, when they build the current church building.

You think there is a relationship between it and the infamous brain sucker my brother used to find on my head?

We had spent four days camping during spring break, three adults and a half dozen scouts. All week we, the adults, had been feasting, as we planned very well. And, all week the boys ate their mediocre or worse suppers, then gazed longingly while we ate. Last night out, we had spaghetti planned, including a fancy tomato based sauce. To this day not sure where my mind was, but I neglected to rinse the spaghetti, but instead thought I would save time by using its water to make the sauce. So, I stirred it all together, and we all savored the great aroma, then let it sit while we finished up the rest. Came time to eat, and we broke out the paper plates (we were not exactly being ecological examples, as we were burning our plates and bowls .....hanging head)for our feast. The spoon had been left in the pot sticking out from under the lid, and when I went to dish some out to one of the others, it almost did not move through the pasta. I managed to pry and dish out three servings, and we started to eat. It stuck to the forks, once we got it off the plate, and it was like chewing tar (though the flavor was pretty good). Well, after a few minutes, we gave up and simply threw the plates with pasta on the fire. Now it was April at 4500 feet in the mountains, and we had a very warm fire. To this day, I can still picture my plate, with this large glob of orange pasta in its center, sitting on top of the large central log. An hour later, the glob was still there, though the plate had disappeared. Have often wondered if anyone has ever investigated the properties of pasta starch as a fire retardant. Of course, the boys did not let us forget either, especially since they too had had pasta, and it came off without a hitch.

Hello David; I did not receive anything from the president at the time, Eisenhower, and there was no certificate, only a card. The card is signed by Eisenhower however, and I can scan it if you would like. Do not know when they started issuing the larger certificates, as well as a card. I do have a letter signed by the CSE at the time. Let me know if any of this is pertinent to your current project. Hope all is well. If you are ever going to be in the So Cal area, let me know, and perhaps we can arrange a visit. YIS

For me, I hold to the more simplistic view that atheism, as defined, is not really possible; "denial of something as not real, indicates acceptance of its possibility". But, that is just me. So then, we have instead agnosticism, which is what I see in scouts that seem to be non believers, but still discuss its possibilities in some manner. And, often, older scouts tend to suddenly change their "belief structure" as they get older and are introduced to more options. We have a just turned 18 year old that, when he came in just short of 11, was pretty much a clone of his parents, especially his mom. When we were going over his Eagle app a couple weeks ago, he asked who should be his religious reference. He admitted then, that he is really questioning things, especially organized religion; but he still believes in God. So, he is searching for an answer that fits him today; and ten years from now, he will likely have a different point of view. Agnosticism is not a reason to deny a scout, as long as he is not in absolute denial. JMHO

Seems to me that troll or not, this subject has been discussed ad infinite um, and the horse must be dead by now. Perhaps it is time to simply bury it.

Come on folks; get a grip. Many old time scouters are no longer able to do more difficult or strenuous activities due to age related things, as well as physical condition. If they are willing to accept that, and find younger, better fit leaders to do that part of the program, while they use their experience and skills in other areas, so much the better. This "black and white" with no shades of "grey" is just not rational. Certainly the CSE and Mr. Perez have put in their time in other ways, and still have very much to offer still. Having met Tico, I feel confident that he is dedicated and will lean over backwards for the program and the boys that are in it. Just my opinion of course.

Seems to me that they are simply encouraging them as an organization with some similar central ideals. If I understand the AHG correctly, they were formed as a counter to the radical direction skew, as seen by many, of the Girl Scouts. It is far too early to really give opinions, but they seem to be growing.

"American Heritage Girls" has been discussed here, mostly in the Political threads, and also in the Girl Scout thread. Yes, it was one of the peripheral groups prominent at the Jambo this summer. Was pleased to see them there. Was surprised to see nearby the Unitarian church; they were very positive and claimed the controversies noted here the past year or two were overblown and the result of a small group within the larger organization. Our scout store is currently selling the AHG uniforms and materials; apparently the only place they are available in our area. They have had people come from long distances to buy stuff, as they are not staffed well enough to handle shipping.

Just came home from an Eagle BOR; another bright young man that gives me hope for the future. That is why!!!!

No one has answered my question about the water availability on such a hike. Is this all non potable water, or is some of it potable with proper treatment? I am not familiar with the area, but reading a bit about it, it says something about a freshwater outlet to the ocean. That is the reason for my query. Thanks.

Say it again!!!!!!!!

Big question for me, as I am not familiar with the area; but a look up says it is often under water in places during part of the year. Should I presume that since it was hot, the under water part was not as likely? And, since it has so much water, is that water drinkable with proper filtration and treatment? Just wonder.

It looks as if electronic filing IS being recommended. The pdf is fillible and savable. They also are recommending a plan for faxes and so on in the council prep list. Looks as if you would not need to have a plan for in council overnights and so on, as long as they were within the council boundaries. But that might be the type you would file in a shorter time span by hand, while doing the longer one for more adventurous ones. Will have to see how our council reacts. I asked about it today, and they had no idea what I was talking about, or at least did not admit it.

Knowing when to say no, and sticking to it is important as a leader. I am fortunate to not have had any serious issues in that regard, but have had a couple times when I allowed a parent and boy to convince me to let him go, and it was a problem. The weekend outing was pretty minor, but Philmont could have been a real disaster. We managed to get him through, but it required more patience than at least one leader, and a number of scouts had. We had to move him from one crew to another, and a number of times he held us up with his immaturity and difficulty in working through his soreness and tiredness. The good thing is that he made it through, and today talks about that as one of his highlights of scouting. But, I had seen the indications the boy at Philmont really was not ready; and I let others override my better judgment. Is this one of those cases? Hopefully, we will learn more soon. It is really a no win situation.