skeptic

Just came home from an Eagle BOR; another bright young man that gives me hope for the future. That is why!!!!

No one has answered my question about the water availability on such a hike. Is this all non potable water, or is some of it potable with proper treatment? I am not familiar with the area, but reading a bit about it, it says something about a freshwater outlet to the ocean. That is the reason for my query. Thanks.

Say it again!!!!!!!!

Big question for me, as I am not familiar with the area; but a look up says it is often under water in places during part of the year. Should I presume that since it was hot, the under water part was not as likely? And, since it has so much water, is that water drinkable with proper filtration and treatment? Just wonder.

It looks as if electronic filing IS being recommended. The pdf is fillible and savable. They also are recommending a plan for faxes and so on in the council prep list. Looks as if you would not need to have a plan for in council overnights and so on, as long as they were within the council boundaries. But that might be the type you would file in a shorter time span by hand, while doing the longer one for more adventurous ones. Will have to see how our council reacts. I asked about it today, and they had no idea what I was talking about, or at least did not admit it.

Knowing when to say no, and sticking to it is important as a leader. I am fortunate to not have had any serious issues in that regard, but have had a couple times when I allowed a parent and boy to convince me to let him go, and it was a problem. The weekend outing was pretty minor, but Philmont could have been a real disaster. We managed to get him through, but it required more patience than at least one leader, and a number of scouts had. We had to move him from one crew to another, and a number of times he held us up with his immaturity and difficulty in working through his soreness and tiredness. The good thing is that he made it through, and today talks about that as one of his highlights of scouting. But, I had seen the indications the boy at Philmont really was not ready; and I let others override my better judgment. Is this one of those cases? Hopefully, we will learn more soon. It is really a no win situation.

Not being a lawyer, I am amazed at the redundancies in the charges. I also really wonder how they can even list some of them, especially those lodged against the church. Certainly, proving that the hike was not "planned" properly, and that proper procedures were not followed may be the crux of the trial. I cannot imagine them doing this hike without having done preliminary hikes and considerable preparation and planning. And, of course, the idea that someone should not undertake this because it was hot is ludicrous, or at least to me. Still, they are counting on the jury falling for the sympathy card, and also the idea that BSA has deep pockets. JMO at this juncture, based on reading the charge as posted. Would be interested in the comments, off the record of course, of our resident legal experts.

Almost all the comments that were posted after the print story linked to the video were in support of the scouts. As noted, far too vague and, as usual, sensationalized. There now appears to be another mode of attack by those who would bring the BSA down; "death by a thousand pricks". Find whatever negative thing they can, then make sure that it gets featured in a very negative way to as many as possible. And do not even attempt to bring balance to the story. As was pointed out a number of times in the comments mentioned, scouting activities are overall "far" safer than other youth activities. But they still are hardly ever featured in these kind of stories. All we can do is continue to try and be as safe as we can, make sure we do not attempt things we are not trained and prepared for, and always be super aware of how our charges are acting and following proper procedures. But, no matter how hard we try, we will not eliminate all accidents or unforeseen health issues. Unless, of course, we simply do nothing at all that may have even a hint of danger. But then they will accuse us of making the kids even more unhealthy and prone to health problems, because we do not get them active enough. Very tiresome and disheartening.

These are the times where you earn your stripes as a leader; how you react to a very serious issue with a scout. Scouts are no different than other boys, other than they hopefully are exposed a bit more to positive examples. But they are still boys and young male adolescents. They make bad decisions, bend to peer pressure, and act out. How we react to them when they do, especially the more serious things like this, is our biggest challenge. It SHOULD NOT BE A KNEE JERK response. They are not throw-away's when they mess up. But we need to help them understand the depth of their mistake, and that it will have consequences. This could be turning point for the young man. Don't make it a reason to drive him away or brand him a failure. Find a fair punishment and encourage him to make amends and regain the pride in himself he would want, and that he wants from others. JMHO

Boys' Life reprints; show up fairly often on eBay. The most common ones are from the 70's, but occasionally some of the older ones in smaller format appear.

Much depends on how he has responded to his poor choices. He still has time to prove that he deserves to be an Eagle, though it may be that some additional time might be warranted to reinforce his demonstration of Scout Spirit, and to prove he has learned a hard lesson. One poor decision is not grist for complete disqualification; but certainly it is reason for a serious discussion with him regarding his mistake and so on. And, it should perhaps be a point of discussion in an actual board, though diplomatically done as delving into his lesson learned. We have had a couple of boys who made poor choices who became Eagle. One had plenty of time to prove himself prior to his completion. The other made his poor decision a few days before his scheduled board, as part of a group of graduates who pulled a stupid prank at their school that resulted in damage. He came forward immediately and admitted his guilt, and he made arrangements to pay his portion of the damages. But, it was a serious point of discussion in his board; but he personally breached the subject right at the start. He and I had had a very long discussion as to how he should handle the situation, and his bringing it up at the start was part of that counseling. He passed, and went on to spend a tour of duty in the service and has never had any problems since. Just my opinion and observations from a long tenure as a Scouter.

So, where did I suggest making this a scouting program. It was simply posted to hopefully make those reading here more aware of the problem. It is important to the age group with which we work. I really do not understand Seattle's comment. Some things posted are information only, not actual scout issues. It seems clear enough to me. JMHO

In our local district, we just found out that a recently passed Eagle, only 17, passed away after a year and a half fight with testicular cancer. His father asked that all of us be aware that this cancer is the worst one for young men between 15 and 35, and encourages parents and their teenage sons learn the signs to look for. If it is diagnosed early enough, the treatment success if pretty high; but once it reaches a certain stage, it is likely to be fatal. So, please Google it and counsel your sons on how to do self exams, and what other symptoms they should not just ignore.

Well, here is one the Kudu might like, as it relates to the ownership of the symbols and so on. I believe that technically, National has the "right" to remove the names of individuals from lists of honors and ranks, if they choose. Whether or not it has happened is vague. I do know that in our council, SB has been indirectly revoked by stripping the name and date from the list of recipients on file. When I was a scout eons ago, the fine print shown in the handbook stated that the badge could be taken back. "A Scout's honor is to be trusted. If he were to violate this honor, by lying, cheating, or not doing exactly a given task, when trusted upon his honor, he may be directed to hand over his "scout badge". So, the intent was stated at one time in the manual. The OP though seems more interested in some kind of public embarrassment, as the video he posted is a clip from "Branded". Unlikely to have any "formal" recension occur, as physically taking it back would be very difficult.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

Am watching the Amazon Mr. Scoutmaster right now; wondering if I can copy to a CD for use at a meeting. Thanks for the info on the availability. By the way, FMB is available on CD directly from the BSA; our scout store has it in the store, but can be ordered from Scoutstuff too.

Try searching for "vintage" boy scout uniforms. There are hundreds of images on the web. Good luck.

Just wondering if it may be time to take the 2010 Jambo thread down? Maybe you could replace it with a Bechtel one. Just a thought.

Still trying to find a copy of "Mr Scoutmaster". Anyone know where it can be located?

Gags; Does that mean one has to be a "right ol' chap" to get up on the Bully Pulpit?

Just to take the edge off................ It this was an English executive (I know they don't have them), would we be happy he was "bully"? Just wondering.

Strange how you can remember the general story line, even relating to your questions; but I only got 4 out of the 20. And I have the original book, the movie title version, the DVD, and stills from the advertising material. Thanks for the fun.

Kudu; Why are you suggesting that I see something "wrong" with these requirements? Most of them are still in existence today, and so should be learned and "practiced". My point is that in some ways, they are more difficult, especially at the first two levels. First class is a real challenge, though certainly not anything that cannot be done by the persistent boy. I would agree with the comment that reviewing past requirements might be a good idea in order to cement the skills more successfully. As far as getting out goes, I wonder where you are that you have such a poor vision of the units camping. Maybe we have more outdoors oriented troops on the West coast. Certainly the problems you speak of are not nearly as common as you would indicate; or maybe it is simply a matter of perception. Whatever; focusing on success is generally better than on failure. At least in my opinion. Too bad that yours is on the negative side. There is always room to improve, but it is far better to move to make those corrections based on a positive outlook. JMHO No more responses to your posts on this from me, as you are obviously not willing to see anything but what you choose.

Think I am with Pack here. We seldom ever have specific, rigid advancement plans; though they are available should boys choose to do them. Like I will usually do knife and axe safety, including setting up a temporary axe area. I enjoy simply chopping wood, so I do. I will teach the scouts how to properly use the tool to "do the work" if they are big enough, and some do. Others simply want to climb on rocks, catch lizards, play in the stream, and so on. So be it; it is "their" time. Interestingly enough, the most unstructured outings are often the ones they talk about later. And Twocubs, I was surprised to see 3 brand new bridged scouts sit and watch the sun set last fall and make mention of how pretty it was. So, maybe we do not give them enough credit for the these things. For me, it is often the complete quiet time after they all have gone to bed that is best. Standing by almost dead coals, stirring them to regenerate the warmth, is somehow special. And occasionally, a scout will choose to join me. Those have sometimes been when I learned more about the individual boy than I had in months, or even years. Yes, simply camping is a good thing. And even the terrible drive in can give us some of these moments if the location is remote enough to get away from most of the crazy stuff of popular sites. JMHO

A "Pearl" from the past that reflects very much on today. "If any man consider the present aspects of what is called by distinction society, he will see the need of these ethics. The sinew and heart of man seem to be drawn out, and we are become timorous, desponding whimperers. We are afraid of truth, afraid of fortune, afraid of death, and afraid of each other. Our age yields no great and perfect persons. We want men and women who shall renovate life and our social state, but we see that most natures are insolvent, cannot satisfy their own wants, have an ambition out of all proportion to their practical force, and do lean and beg day and night continually. Our housekeeping is mendicant, our arts, our occupations, our marriages, our religion, we have not chosen, but society has chosen for us. We are parlour soldiers. We shun the rugged battle of fate, where strength is born. If our young men miscarry in their first enterprises, they lose all heart. If the young merchant fails, men say he is ruined. If the finest genius studies at one of our colleges, and is not installed in an office within one year afterwords in the cities or suburbs of Boston or New York, it seems to his friends and to himself that he is right in being disheartened, and in complaining the rest of his life. A sturdy lad from New Hampshire or Vermont, who in turn tries all the professions, who teams it, farms it, peddles, keeps a school, preaches, edits a newspaper, goes to Congress, buys a township, and so forth, in successive years, and always, like a cat, falls on his feet, is worth a hundred of these city dolls. He walks abreast with his days, and feels no shame in not 'studying a profession,' for he does not postpone his life, but lives already. He has not one chance, but a hundred chances." Ralph Waldo Emerson (1841)

Very often my "VISA" card. (%-)}