skeptic

While we do not have the same cold weather issues of those in other parts of the country, we still do have below freezing on occasion at our winter camps, and of course snow days too. All camps and trips in cold weather should have prep and planning, including a thorough review of hypothermia symptoms, and what to do. This includes trying to make everyone aware that keeping an eye on their buddies and others is important as well. Too often, the victim has little or no awareness he has a problem. And of course adults need, as noted, to assure boys are not ignoring wet clothes and are hydrating properly. No one should be sleeping alone in severely cold weather, as they need to have others there in case they have problems. These are the times when crowded tents may be better, due to body heat accumulation; and it is a good idea to have voice contact with a nearby tent. Of course, make sure they DO NOT go to bed with damp clothes, even though they may get cold briefly while changing. And, a beanie or other warm head covering, along with dry socks are a must, as well as proper insulation beneath their bag AND tent. One other thing that helps, is to try and make sure they all urinated before bed if at all possible, as that can be a real problem in the middle of the night if it is really cold out. Prepare, use common sense, and have fun.

So, then it is even MORE important for those in the trenches to try and assure a quality program, including "real" skills and leadership growth. There is no reason to not take the high level performance as a troop goal, rather than aim at the minimum. Frankly, I sometimes wonder why some on here are still involved, if they are; as they certainly do not seem to be getting any joy or fun out of it based on their bitterness. Hopefully they do not pass that attitude to scouts, if they are still actually involved. JMHO

Few council executives make the COR's to be actively involved, as it would possibly detract from their hand picked group of supporters; the same may be the case with district chairs, though ours certainly IS involved on the exec board. Reality is that should most COR's actually participate in exec board decisions, many things might change. It is really too bad that so few do.

Being familiar with both, as I took it originally in the 80's, then was on the transitional 21st staff as a guide, I see pro's and con's to both. But, at least in the two courses in which I was involved, the real knowledge and growth was the patrols, which is still the same, other than being more mixed perhaps due to all various program participants being mixed. Functioning as a patrol, and becoming a close knit group, is the basis for the rest, whether the focus is more on cerebral leadership skills, or traditional pioneering skills, or a combo of them. And the morale and knowledge support continues during the ticket process in most cases. Most participants, it seemed to me, learned as much or more from fellow patrol members. They both were beneficial to those taking them if the participant took the "intent" to heart, and followed through. The few who are "so" negative towards the new course appear to often be the same ones who have "half empty glasses" in many of the other discussions. There is not absolute in any training material or course. We take away what we internalize and are willing to put to reflective evaluation as to its worth. JMO(This message has been edited by skeptic)

Hawkrod; On the other hand, if did earn the rockers, he accomplished something he could "only" do there. So, I would think that would make up for the fewer merit badges, especially if he had a great time and was exposed to unusual things. Either way, finding that fine line can be hard. Good luck.

We seem to have a lot of comments that indicate someone "earning" their Silver Beaver, or District Award of Merit, and so on. These awards are not ones you can simply decide to earn. Yes, you can be involved and get your name in the limelight, and even a few may actually campaign for these; but they are awarded on merit for the most part. We all know some that seem left out, that perhaps "should have" been recognized by now. Still, you seldom see them complain, as they seem to grasp that while it is an honor, it is not what they are there for. And, even though we can say it is not fair, sometimes the SB or AoM are given to people for political or financial reasons. For years, those that seemed to have sort have "bought" an one of these recognitions, really irked me. But, the real scouters understand the difference. And sometimes the financial or "special access" deserve these special recognitions, due to their major importance within a council. Whenever I feel annoyed now about these sort of things, I simply try to remember that "my" focus should still be on my troop first, and that the best scouters' awards are the smiles of scouts when they succeed somehow, and, if you are fortunate, a scout from 30+ years ago saying hello and thank you on Facebook, or directly. JMO

This has been an issue of sorts for years now. But as always, we are comparing apples to oranges again. Few would disagree that First Class today is not as great an accomplishment as it was prior to 1960 or so, as the skill levels are not as great, and they have removed the "official" review past skills from the program. By that, I mean we still can find ways to reinforce many of the skills; but some are just no longer there, the things that often made the scout focus, such as signaling. But Eagle itself is actually far more difficult, due to the project. Even the absolute minimum project is more than was required prior to around 1966. I am not sure if I would have finished Eagle if I had had to do a project, as I was already working, playing sports, and so on. Would like to think I would have, but who knows. Now, we all are likely familiar with the troops we call "Eagle factories"; but there are fewer than we would think, though the ones that are there skew stats dramatically I think. We have one large troop here that averages 10 Eagles a year. I have sat on many of their BOR's, and some barely have met the requirements. Still, a surprisingly large number are actually very fine examples, in my opinion. Finally, I would have to agree with the original premise though. As a SM for over 30 years, I have seen a gradual change in the membership focus, as noted. And we have far more of the "overly concerned" parents than we once did. Surely one of the reasons we stay small, and continue to struggle to bring in webelos, is the fact that I personally try to avoid pushing kids too hard, and counsel parents to back off a lot more than once seemed needed. Our troop has fewer than 50 Eagles in just under 90 years, so we certainly would never be considered a "factory". Yet, we seem to have a pretty high proportion of boys stay through high school just the same. Interesting discussion.

Terry; Any idea when we may see a biography of Bill? Certainly needs to join the accepted icons of BSA. Thanks.

Picked up a large full square neckerchief with the above on its point; but there is no council designator. It is purple with a white border and has on odd map like design in white below a compass rose with north as a scout symbol. This is all enclosed in a white bordered triangle. Anyone have any info on this? Thanks.

Thanks for letting me know it twasn't you Pack. Think I figured it out though. It occurs, rereading it, that I had misspelled Webelos; think I wrote Webeloes. But, if that is not the reason, I would still like to know so I can avoid additional errors. Thanks.

Desert; I think most people annoyed by it are talking about "current" awards that require paperwork to get them to start with. There have been a few sellers on eBay that have somehow been able to offer the various 2010 items to anyone, often in sets, but also by piece, and they have been doing it to "make a profit", not to put in a collection. For me, it is particularly annoying to see brand new Silver Buffalo awards and Distinguished Eagle kits being offered. The really sad thing is that, assuming they are real, someone is getting them to the sellers beneath the in place rules. For me, that indicates at least two dishonest individuals who are trying to make a profit on something that is supposed to have special meaning. JMHO of course.

Whichever staff member edited my recent post, will you please contact me as to why? Other than paragraphing, I cannot figure out what might have been done. And I purposely did the paragraphing. Thanks.

Well, even 10 year old's have opinions about this I discovered yesterday morning while subbing in a class of them. Right after the flag salute, which is led by one of the students, one of the boys brought up the subject. Obviously, some were just restating a parental comment, but a couple seemed to have really given it some thought. A couple were even somewhat forgiving, though not sure if that was due to a parent discussing, or just a somewhat more mature thought process. It was kind of nice to also have one of the boys show up wearing his Webelos uniform, since it was our anniversary. Sometimes wish my troop was in the city in which I sub; I might find it easier to get Webelos to come to our troop. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Way back when, the first year as a SM at summer camp, I was overly zealous at packing to go home time, bugging the boys to make sure they checked their tents, then rechecked, then checked each others' as well. We were 6+ hours away, and I did not want to deal with missing gear and so on. The following Monday, as I was preparing for our follow up meeting, I could not find my scout pants. Of course, I had left them at camp; I remembered stringing them over the ridge pole in the tent to keep them neater. Took me weeks to arrange to get them; but the camp did finally send them to me. We had our late summer COH, and at the end, up comes the SPL and announces the boys had a special award for me. They then proceeded to present me with a Steve Scout sized pair of pants with all the signatures of all the boys and assistants that had been at camp. I still have that momento hanging on a pine stave in the corner of the scout room.

Is it my age, or is my fondness of the Jimmy Hendrix version due to its uniqueness and musical emotion?

Just for info, if you happen to be in Southern California. Our annual trade o ree is this weekend, starting this evening for general fellowship and trading, then continuing tomorrow with silent auctions, and a live auction. It is being held at the Oxnard Elks' Lodge, 801 South a Street; Oxnard, CA. They have a fish fry on Friday night which is often taken advantage of by early visitors. Check in on Saturday is between 8 and 9 in the morning, and the live auction usually is right after lunch, which traditionally is hot dogs and fries if desired. Small gathering, but good, friendly fellowship. Visit if you have time.

We have wires strung across our meeting room with ribbons and other smaller dangle items. The only things on the pole are honor or quality unit streamers. We also have a wire with old, defunct patrol flags, which adds to the overall museum look in our main meeting area. Of course, we are in our 90th year, and have been in our basement cave since 1928, when they build the current church building.

You think there is a relationship between it and the infamous brain sucker my brother used to find on my head?

We had spent four days camping during spring break, three adults and a half dozen scouts. All week we, the adults, had been feasting, as we planned very well. And, all week the boys ate their mediocre or worse suppers, then gazed longingly while we ate. Last night out, we had spaghetti planned, including a fancy tomato based sauce. To this day not sure where my mind was, but I neglected to rinse the spaghetti, but instead thought I would save time by using its water to make the sauce. So, I stirred it all together, and we all savored the great aroma, then let it sit while we finished up the rest. Came time to eat, and we broke out the paper plates (we were not exactly being ecological examples, as we were burning our plates and bowls .....hanging head)for our feast. The spoon had been left in the pot sticking out from under the lid, and when I went to dish some out to one of the others, it almost did not move through the pasta. I managed to pry and dish out three servings, and we started to eat. It stuck to the forks, once we got it off the plate, and it was like chewing tar (though the flavor was pretty good). Well, after a few minutes, we gave up and simply threw the plates with pasta on the fire. Now it was April at 4500 feet in the mountains, and we had a very warm fire. To this day, I can still picture my plate, with this large glob of orange pasta in its center, sitting on top of the large central log. An hour later, the glob was still there, though the plate had disappeared. Have often wondered if anyone has ever investigated the properties of pasta starch as a fire retardant. Of course, the boys did not let us forget either, especially since they too had had pasta, and it came off without a hitch.

Hello David; I did not receive anything from the president at the time, Eisenhower, and there was no certificate, only a card. The card is signed by Eisenhower however, and I can scan it if you would like. Do not know when they started issuing the larger certificates, as well as a card. I do have a letter signed by the CSE at the time. Let me know if any of this is pertinent to your current project. Hope all is well. If you are ever going to be in the So Cal area, let me know, and perhaps we can arrange a visit. YIS

For me, I hold to the more simplistic view that atheism, as defined, is not really possible; "denial of something as not real, indicates acceptance of its possibility". But, that is just me. So then, we have instead agnosticism, which is what I see in scouts that seem to be non believers, but still discuss its possibilities in some manner. And, often, older scouts tend to suddenly change their "belief structure" as they get older and are introduced to more options. We have a just turned 18 year old that, when he came in just short of 11, was pretty much a clone of his parents, especially his mom. When we were going over his Eagle app a couple weeks ago, he asked who should be his religious reference. He admitted then, that he is really questioning things, especially organized religion; but he still believes in God. So, he is searching for an answer that fits him today; and ten years from now, he will likely have a different point of view. Agnosticism is not a reason to deny a scout, as long as he is not in absolute denial. JMHO

Seems to me that troll or not, this subject has been discussed ad infinite um, and the horse must be dead by now. Perhaps it is time to simply bury it.

Come on folks; get a grip. Many old time scouters are no longer able to do more difficult or strenuous activities due to age related things, as well as physical condition. If they are willing to accept that, and find younger, better fit leaders to do that part of the program, while they use their experience and skills in other areas, so much the better. This "black and white" with no shades of "grey" is just not rational. Certainly the CSE and Mr. Perez have put in their time in other ways, and still have very much to offer still. Having met Tico, I feel confident that he is dedicated and will lean over backwards for the program and the boys that are in it. Just my opinion of course.

Seems to me that they are simply encouraging them as an organization with some similar central ideals. If I understand the AHG correctly, they were formed as a counter to the radical direction skew, as seen by many, of the Girl Scouts. It is far too early to really give opinions, but they seem to be growing.

"American Heritage Girls" has been discussed here, mostly in the Political threads, and also in the Girl Scout thread. Yes, it was one of the peripheral groups prominent at the Jambo this summer. Was pleased to see them there. Was surprised to see nearby the Unitarian church; they were very positive and claimed the controversies noted here the past year or two were overblown and the result of a small group within the larger organization. Our scout store is currently selling the AHG uniforms and materials; apparently the only place they are available in our area. They have had people come from long distances to buy stuff, as they are not staffed well enough to handle shipping.