Gwaihir

I think that would be a good solution... I don't think the GSUSA would be happy with that tho.

There is more than enough opportunity to effect change within the Girl Scout program to incorporate those things. Maybe no one wants to take on the GSUSA on the matter or start their own GSUSA unit and do those things with their girls. Then again, maybe the demand by girls for those things is limited to a small outlier of girls and the GSUSA knows this, so they don't feel the need to modify their program. I do know they just finished a survey last year for all girls and parents of girls (I participated in the survey) and camping was the clear and away winner of what members want to see in the program. They've introduced a new camping badge, and are looking to expand there. Seize on that success and drive change for girls in the girl program. I keep failing to see why everyone is ready to pick up the torch of social justice and wield it against the Boy Scouts, but decide the torch is just too heavy to wield it against the Girls Scouts. Let the Boy Scouts continue to serve boys.

zzzzZZzZzZz. If Boy Scouts was about the outdoors, maybe I'd agree. There are however countless programs dedicated to "the outdoors". Boy Scouts is about developing Boys. period. "There are thousands of boys being wasted daily to our country through being left to become characterless, and, therefore, useless wasters, a misery to themselves and an eyesore and a danger to the nation. They could be saved if only the right surroundings or environment were given to them at the receptive time of their lives." - Baden-Powell "Juvenile crime is not naturally born in the boy, but is largely due either to the spirit of adventure that is in him, to his own stupidity, or to his lack of discipline, according to the nature of the individual." - Baden-Powell Juvenile crime is up, male incarceration rates are up, male drop out rates are up, males graduating high school and college is down. (far below that of females). Meanwhile girls are flourishing in our society with higher graduation rates in high school and college, higher grades and test scores, higher job placement. Boy Scouts being dedicated to boys is more important in 2017 than it's ever been. Boys are losing their identity and being left behind to languish and fail. I will do everything in my own power to see that the Boy Scouts of America remains dedicated exclusively to the growth and development of boys. Maybe a losing battle, but better to lose on principle than fall in line on populism. (ps. As stated above, I love how no one is demanding the Girl Scouts become co-ed and include boys... having a girl only dedicated organization is socially acceptable, having a boy only organization is progressively toxic... and there-in sums up this whole farce and galvanizes the war on boys 2017 faces)

When Eagle becomes just a line item on a resume... you start seeing things like that.

believe me, I agree. I said it's the only silver lining...

The only saving grace is that there was 75 known cases in the whole of the US over the course of 10 years. That's not a lot.

I'd wager when you were a youth, we used DDT and eradicated much of the disease borne pests which kept kids free from such diseases.

Sorry to derail the phone discussion. saw this today... As far as jobs go... that might not be a deterrent for Alabama boys... might just be easier to stick with scouts, at least if theyre going to try and mow laws. http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/01/some-alabama-teens-will-be-required-to-obtain-costly-business-license-to-cut-grass-this-summer/

It seems all that disconnectedness is having a real impact on health... http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/the-loneliness-epidemic-more-connected-than-ever-but-feeling-more-alone-10143206.html So I'd argue that patrols and building camaraderie is more important than ever before.

thanks Schiff and Flag, I guess I'll be avatarless for the time being.

This.

That's because the destination of Eagle was never intended to be the point. It was always the journey to Eagle that mattered.... right up until moms figured out Eagle looks good on resumes, then it was all about earning the 10 letters they get to place at the bottom of their 24lb Ivory sheet. The journey to Eagle is what you remember, it's where your lessons come from, it's where your character is forged... the service project and the patch are just finale to a body of work. Not the work itself. I wish more leaders and more parents would realize this. Even the BSA has turned "Eagle Scout" into a brand, a brand that created a glut of Eagles who are 11, 12, 13 years old who haven't really gained any kind of real experience, who's skills and leadership really haven't been put to any test... but they checked all their boxes and finished their race to the red white and blue! BSA can add a +1 to their bottom line.* *(Of course there are exceptions, but I believe these are exceptions that prove the rule. Hell, the argument from mothers and girls is the same... Girl Scouts doesn't have "Eagle Scout"... as if the skills and knowledge learned on that journey are inconsequential... it's the resume fodder that matters!!)

I think it's great, wish we had done it as scouts back in the day. We just used the standard Red with yellow piping. Will keep that in the back pocket.

It's funny, I had a discussion with a well meaning mom, who was lamenting the first year scouts creating their own camp meal plan, and it being woefully bad. When the boys got to camp, they were watching the other patrol of experienced scouts enjoying all sorts of food, and they were mad at what they had. She was upset with the SM because he let the boys do their own plans, and didn't coach them or help them" i then saw an interview with Tico Perez where he talks about that exact experience when he was a scout, and how that was one of the most important experiences he had in scouting. Failing and being hungry on a camping trip... he never made that mistake again.

Josh Hart is an example of where you can be successful in sports and still stay on the journey to Eagle. http://broadband.espn.go.com/video/clip?id=18763601

That sounds terrible. I took mine earlier this year, it was at the Scout reservation, was hands on, we had to perform skits, cook our lunch in foil packs, demonstrate knowledge of 4 knots, go over camp fire program, sleep gear, first aid kits, etc. I knew most of the stuff camp wise being a cub and boy scout, but I felt it was a fairly thorough training course.

"We will develop the leaders of tomorrow... that cant make a decision unless its cleared with their mothers"

True, though not as fraternity brothers, but as love conquests. And by this analogy, the Girl Scouts of America often do joint projects/events with the Boy Scouts of America. But you don't see the Kappa Alpha Theta and Kappa Sigma just becoming the same organization or the Kappa Sigma allowing women "brothers"

because if the non-scouters just lived, and let the scouts and scouters live, there wouldn't be a push for changes. "live, and let live"

ironically... it's precisely this axiom being violated that is resulting in the move to introduce these changes.

I don't see fraternities and sororities going anywhere in 2017, or the future.

Valid counter-point. Thanks Stosh. I think the only difference is that a Patrol will be a patrol for several years, a Cub is his "animal" for 1 year and then he moves on. The other difference is in Cubs, it's the necker, the slide, the belt buckle, the hat...

The net effect of getting kicked out or quitting is the same.

this.