sherminator505

Oh, yeah. Don't forget the olive green leader tie.

To understand what is happening in Libya, you must first understand what is currently being sold to us as "American exceptionalism." Good luck in your quest.

jrush, A quote is a quote. When you put " " around something, you should verify that what is inside the " " is actually what was said. If you wish to paraphrase, feel free to do so. Otherwise, you should probably familiarize yourself with the CTRL-C and CTRL-V functions on your keyboard. Because what you appear to be doing now is altering someone else's words in order to strengthen your arguments by responding to the statement you want to respond to and not the statement that was actually made.

An interesting exchange earlier in the thread: Oak Tree - "Sometimes it just seems like a strange religious organization that I've joined here." WAKWIB - "It has only been regarded as "strange" for the last 20 years or so, and only mainly by those outside of the organization." My involvement with the BSA began as a Scout close to 30 years ago. My observation is that in certain respects this movement of the BSA toward being a "strange religious organization" really didn't become noticeable until the late 1990's. In my earlier years as a Scouter, from 1988 until 1996, I went through SMF and Wood Badge and served on a SMF course, and this was never a topic of discussion. We were all aware of Scouting's stated principles, but I don't think we were really looking for people to exclude. Then the fight started. The lefties in Santa Fe got the BSA booted from the United Way, and people started to sue. I'll be the first to say that I was appaled by this. Then the inevitable backlash occured. The BSA shifted from a fairly neutral position to actively booting out those it found to be undesirables. I was appaled by this as well, and it was one of the factors that led to my five-year hiatus from Scouting that I have written about in other threads. I came back to Scouting to find an organization that is even more stiff-necked than the one I left. Specifically, it seemed that things like this membership issue and popcorn sales and the huge amount of BSA merchandising that goes on have eclipsed what used to be the important things, like what we're doing for the boys or what we're teaching them and why. At times, I wonder if I have become a fossil. I wonder if I have a mindset that better served the 20th-century of Scouting and really doesn't have a place in the movement today.

My troop growing up was one that only insisted on waist-up uniforming. I don't think that affected the quality of the Scouting experience we received. I think this should be viewed by the OA officers here as a learning experience. Some troops that they work with will actually scrutinize the appearance of their uniforms more than the quality of their leadership. It may not be right or sound right, but that's the reality. So even though it is not in their troop custom, they may want to get uniform pants or at least wear dress pants instead of jeans the next time they visit a troop, because for some, that is an expectation of leaders at the District level, which is what these young men are.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

I find that buying clothes from big-box stores can be a big gamble with regard to durability.

jrush, You did it again. I said: "The Republicans in Wisconsin have pushed through as naked and straightforward an attack on labor as has been seen in many years." You quoted: "direct attack on the unions." I'm not sure about the world you live in, but where I come from, words mean something. You have shown us that others' words hold little value to you, as you continue to misquote. While you mull that over, you may consider the meaning of other words, like "trustworthy" and "courteous."

Well, SOMEONE got awfully quiet... *cricket chirping*

"The whole move to more "muted" colors was in response to comments that the US scouts stood out too much at International events." Yet we still have the red jac-shirt...

It is very true that IF every Scouter read the books AND could envision what is laid out in those books AND could implement that vision as the authors intended, then training would be unnecessary. Unfortunately that is a very, very big IF! The reality is that people need to be trained to reinforce what is in those books and to help them see the vision that is being set before them. That said, I have serious concerns about the current BSA training program. I am not at all convinced that compartmentalizing the training into an ever-increasing number of modules is the best way to deliver training to volunteers who have to balance Scouting with work and family commitments. It seems that they've come up with a lot of bright ideas, but they haven't really considered the ramifications of implementing them. Thus the discussion we're having here. It is on this point that Kudu and I tend to diverge. I don't believe that National has truly embraced management theory as Kudu suggests, because if it had the BSA would not look like the dysfunctional organization at the National level that it does.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

jrush, I'll stand by what I said, but please don't put words into my mouth! I never suggested that this was "sneaky political manuevering" as stated in your post. I would assert just the opposite. The Republicans in Wisconsin have pushed through as naked and straightforward an attack on labor as has been seen in many years. They have now taken steps to freeze the Democrats in Wisconsin out of the deliberative process for future legislation. Truly, they are acting about as un-democratically as any elective body in recent American history, and I can't help but wonder if the activation of this kind of regime is what the citizens of Wisconsin had in mind. Still, you will undoubtedly defend this as "enact(ing) the political will of the majority of the electorate", and you have shown that you will defend it to the point of ascribing quotes to me that I NEVER said!!! I can't wait to see your next argument, so I will get to see the next of my "quotes" to fly out of your head!

I think some of the resentment stems from the BSA's decision to separate the leader-specific training from IOLS and creating an additional training weekend for our volunteers. This represents an increased demand not only on the students, but on the trainers as well. I think that Sherm's Correlary fits here. We've all heard that it not a good idea to do something just because "we've always done it that way." Sherm's Correlary states that while that may be so, there just MIGHT have been a reason WHY we've always done it that way. There was a reason why we did Scoutmaster Fundamentals in a single weekend, and I think this thread hits on that reason. We do ask a lot of our volunteers, and at times I wonder if we have passed the point of taking our volunteers for granted in imposing these requirements.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

Welcome to the campfire!

"Until the Dems ran a black guy from Harvard." What?! No commentaries on Socialism or bloated government bureaucracy?! No rants about how health care reform was rammed through?! No thoughts about deficit spending?! No commentary about how the government stimulus didn't work?! *catching my breath* Well, this is refreshingly honest indeed. I guess it IS true when they say "the truth will out."

"CP, the government isn't acting in bad faith; it's simply that the political reality has changed." The latter does not negate the former. In Wisconsin's case this is particularly true. To get collective bargaining passed, the Wisconsin Republicans took out all of the "budgetary" items. By this action, they in fact ADMITTED that this has NOTHING to do with budgets and EVERYTHING to do with union busting, and thus conclusively answered the OP's original question.

We have 6 kitties, and my family and I love 'em to pieces. Is that all you've got?

WOW! It's hard to believe you're an "honor" student. Anyway, since you probably don't have a cat, I'll explain it to you. A "cat toy" is some random object that makes a sound as it skips across the floor that the cat finds interesting. So the cat (me) continues to bat the object (you) around until it a) breaks and can no longer make noise, or b) finds itself in a dark place where it is safely beyond the cat's reach. Does that clarify things for you?

"also if i am such a troll then why do you keep responding?" Because you, my friend, have become my new favorite cat toy.

Oh, and fermi, you may want to work on your writing before you even think about college. It's not very good.

WOW! You have one of those too? I thought my wife and I were the only ones! LOL

I think we're talking to a wall at this point... suffice to say there is none so stupid as one who refuses to learn.

*yawn* Troll's gone and I find my thoughts turning to pie. Who's with me?(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

OK, fermi91. I'll humor you. When you say that "i am getting something that looks realy good in resumes," what do you mean? Do you really think you are going to pass an EBOR with the attitude you're showing us here? Because if you haven't yet, I seriously have my doubts that you will, considering that many Scouts with a much more Scoutlike attitude don't. Do you really think that by making Eagle, you will have something to counterbalance the long list of job after job after job on your resume that you will undoubtedly enter and be forced to leave due to the attitude you're showing us here? Seriously, you should look back on these threads and ask yourself if this is really how you want the world to see you, because it's highly unlikely you'll ever get what you want, much less keep it, if this is any indication of how people see you in real life.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

Here's what I'd like to see- less talk about the "Trail to Eagle" and treating First Class as something to be rushed through in a year. Oh, yeah, and reserve the First Class hat pin for all who have earned the rank (regardless of when) in lieu of its current use.

"My bias is to make First Class the major achievement in Scouting. Star, Life and Eagle are fine, but are mainly polishing what a Scout should already have learned." I agree, to a point. First Class Scout was once considered the be-all, end-all of the standard Scouting program. Thus the big, metal badge. It was a big deal indeed! At that time, the merit badge program, along with Star, Life, and Eagle, were considered an advanced Scouting program, on par with things like the Order of the Arrow, Senior Scouting and the like. The difference now is that Eagle is marketed as the be-all, end-all. This has lessened the perceived importance of First Class and shifted the focus of many troop programs from Scoutcraft and adventure to merit badges and generating Eagle Scouts. IMO, this shift in focus has been what has moved Scouting from the Patrol Method to what I would call the "individual advancement method" to the detriment of Scouting as a whole.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)