shemgren

The problem in small troops is that there often isn't enough Scouts to fill all of the postions that are listed in the literature. Many of the leaders of these small troops are frustrated with the situtation. To overcome, they often give Scout multiple jobs. The only positions that a Scout can double up on are den chief and bugler, while holding other postitions with in the troop. In an ideal troop, every Scout should only have one position. But as stated above, this isn't always possible. The SM should strive to having one Scout, one job. In a Troop where this is not happening, the prime goal of SM and the PLC to work on recruitment to gain more members to broaden the troop program.

A) In my district, Cub Scout, Some of Boy Scout, Youth Protection, Ethics in Action training will be brought to any unit that asks for it and can gather at least 5 people to attend. B) By the new Pack and Troop organization charts (page 7-1, Cub Scout Leader Book, page 11 of the Troop Committe Guidebook) the Troop and Pack Trainer sets between the Committee and the unit leader (SM and CM). C) The New Essentials for Leaders is offered as part of each training. We offer Cub training 3-4 times a year, Boy Scout training in the Spring and Fall. Troop Committee challenge is offered as apart of Boy Scout Leader Training. D) I am strongly considering it since I wasn't able to finish my ticket in the Mid 80's. E) No F) Tiger/Wolf/Bear Den Leaders, Cubmaster, Pack Committee, October, March and May. Boy Scout Training of all types, Webelos Training October and May. BALOO September and April Our council offers University of Scouting in March which includes Cub Scout Training, Commissioner Training plus speciality trainings. Scott Hemgren Central Minnesota Council

You only hold one primary postition, such as Cubmaster, Den Leader (of all types), CC, and SM. You cannot be SM and DL or CM and a DL. AN ASM can be a DL, but this should be discouraged. Besides the issues already raised concerning Youth Protection and too much to cover if you leave the unit(s), this situtation is tough because the shared leadership model has broken down. A scout unit is based on the concept of shared leadership at all levels of the program. Without shared leadership, too few people have control of the unit. To overcome this, each unit should seek as many volunteers as possible to fill the various positions within the unit. The goal should that each leader has one position. Comming from a rural area, I understand that only a few people will get involved with a unit to help with the leadership, but the CC and the Unit Leader (CM, SM, and so on), working with the COR and UC, should strive to get the unit in the condition of one job for one person. Concerning being a troop leader and an OA Advisor, this position is a council level position and it is easier for the Council to process you as a multiple, since people on the Council's charter as their primary registration, must be approved by the Council Executive Board. A multiple is being listed on several charters. I myself as a COR am listed on two charters and also as an ADC on the district's charter. Scott Hemgren ADC Central Minnesota

Bob: Sorry, I am in a different council that runs north to Grand Rapids, west to Park Rapids, south to Paynesvile and east to Elk River, which just a little south of me and based in St. Cloud. Scott

Hey, I am finally a Forum Member. I live in Zimmerman, MN, which is a suburb of Minneapolis. Scott Hemgren Central Minnesota Council

I wish the edit funcution worked. I ment to say: If your council is not including Ages and Stages in the New Leader Essentials, they are not conducting training correctly.

Ages and Stages is part two of New Leader Essentials. If your council is not including this in training, they are conducting training correctly. The Patrol method can be traced back to BP at Brownsea Island in 1909. To quote BP from the Aids to Scoutmastership: "The patrol is the unit of Scouting always." "The object of the patrol system is mainly to give real responsibility to as many of the boys as possible with a view to developing their character." Scott Hemgren

As a Commissioner, I have the mandate to serve my units in providing the best Scouting to youth served by that unit. It has been my experience that the adult leaders, like the youth, require nudges from time to time, to keep them compliant with BSA policies and guidelines. By atending Committee meetings and troop meetings, I keep on the watch for rule and policy infractions and violations. With new adult leaders, they need more guidance then more experienced leaders. However, I see more violations by experienced, trained leaders, then the new, inexperienced ones. THe attitude is often, "don't tell me to do Scouting." The rules are often in place for the protection of 1) the youth, 2) the adult volunteers, 3) the BSA in general. As stated in the New Leader Essentials training video, the youth are the reason that we do all things we do. Scott Hemgren ADC Central Minnesota

I find myself to disagree with Bob White concerning the religous award earned by a Cub Scout not being worn on the Boy Scout uniform. The Insigna Guide states that the religous award square knot on the Cub Scout uniform in place of the medal and it may be worn on the Boy Scout uniform upon gradulation into a troop. If the Scout earns one while a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout, he should wear a Cub Scout device and a Boy Scout device on the square knot. Medals may be worn on the uniform, pinned to the top seam of the left pocket (the one where the Scout wears his badge of rank) for formal occassions such as Pack meetings, Blue and Gold, Court of Honor and Eagle COH. Scott Hemgren

The Senior Patrol Leader is elected by the Troop at an election of the Troop. The SPL appoints, with the guidnace of Scoutmaster, the ASPL, and Troop leaders, with the exception of Patrol Leaders and Assistants. The length of service is at the direction of the PLC, and many Troops have a rule againist more than two consective terms, again set by the PLC. Page 13 of the Scoutmaster Handbook states "In a new troop or a troop without older members, boys are likely to choose a Scout whom they respect and beleve will provide the best leadership." My troop has a rule created by the PLC that the SPL must be at least a First Class Scout and in practice, the SPL tends to be Star or higher and one of the older Scouts. Again, this is by the will of the PLC. Please note that the SPL is not a member of a patrol. Scott Hemgren

I have the distintion of serving as UC and COR to my pack and troop. I attend committee meetings, troop meetings and pack meeting and often other events. I have always have counted active support for my units as part and parcel of my duties to them. When the Commander of the Legion Post asks for assistance from the units, I can answer easily, since I am up to date with what is going on with each unit. The Pack CC and CM call or email me regularly and I have a close relation with the SM and CC of the troop, having work with them since their boys were Cubs. Dedication from the CO goes a long way for making a unit work easier. Scott Hemgren

A Cub Scout should work on the rank for his age/grade September through May. Starting in June he is considered in the next grade and may begin working on his next badge, however, most councils will not accept advancements for the next rank until September. If a boy hasn't finished his work for the badge after May, he can continue through the summer to work on the badge. Starting September 1, he must start on the next badge. Webelos are the exception with their program is based earning the Webelos and then being awarded that Arrow of Light. I agree with the esteemed Bob White that this an award, not a rank. It may be worn on the Boy Scout uniform and recognized on the adult Scouter by the square knot. A Cub Scout may not go back and work a previous level if he joined late, since doing so would not be "doing his best". Scott Hemgren

The Eagle Scout Rank is a demostration of a young man's charactor and moral strength. The requirements are designed to show a young man's willingness to serve others, set and fulfil goals, and ability to use skills he has learned in living in the real world. To add to this already excellent set of requirements is very unfair to any young man who wishes to persue to this goal. Grekonsz: I appauld your williness to seek advise outside your troop leadership. When I was a Scout, I had the advantage of knowing several adults outside of my troop to bounce ideas off of for a reality check of what was happening in my troop. I would strongly advise you to speak to your Unit Commisioner or District Executive about this issue, for they can help in this issue. Scott Hemgren Eagle Scout, Class 0f 1980

A boy can become a Boy Scout if he: Is 10 an 1/2 and has earned the Arrow of Light. Is 10 and 1/2 and has finished the 5th Grade. Is 11 years old. I agree that the boys should be kept busy in the Pack, until they a eligible to join the Troop. The boys have paid for membership in the Pack until recharter time and they remain members until then.

In Cub Scouts there are neckerchiefs for Tiger Den Leaders, Cub Scout Leaders and Webelos Den Leaders. At the completion of all the Wood Badge requirements, the Scouter is presented a special neckerchief, as weel as the bead necklace. In Commissioner service, the Distingushed Commissioner award is accompied with a bolo tie. The insigna guide gives instruction on how to wear a neck medal with a neckerchief, such as the Cub Scout program leader awards, The Silver Beaver Award.

While you are correct in stating that 100 hours are not required by the BSA, I have used this measure in my troop to get the Scouts to think about substantal and not trival projects. If the project comes under that time, one wonders if it was that big in first place. Having served on my district's Eagle Board of Review and approved projects while there, the board looks poorly on a project that won't at least be 100 hours outside of the Scout's planning. They often situplate additional things to the project to have it approved. In my troop, we had a young man who grew vegatables on 10 acres of land, donated the produce to the local food shelf, and put in over 550 hours besides his own into the project. The time write-up took 13 pages by itself.

The general outline of a Eagle Project is: It must benefit the local community - meaning a church, school, park, community center, any non-profit service organization (except the Boy Scouts of America). Take a minimum of 100 man hours outside of the Scout's planning time to complete. Be accomplished in multiple, small scale work sessions, as opposed to a one day "all hands" effort. Have most of the work done by people other than the Scout. Project #1 would have tough time meeting that critrea. Project #2 and #3 could met the test, but as stated by another post, more of the details would needed to make that determination. Scott Hemgren ADC Central Minnesota Council

The square knots are povided for the convenince of the wearer, since many represent a medal (Eagle Scout, Cub Scout program awards, Scouter's Training Award, Scoutmaster's Key, Silver Beaver, Religious Awards). However, some do not (District Award of Merit, Arrow of Light.) It is allowed by the Insigna Guide for a Scouter to wear up to 5 medals above the left pocket for ceremonies (Court of Honor, Eagle Court of Honor, etc.) Also the neck medals may be worn at the same circumstances. I wear my eagle medal at such occassions, to show that it can be done. The Eagle Badge is a youth emblem, but the medal is yours to wear when approriate. After 32 years of service (man and boy), I have quite a few knots, to wear the accompaning medals would make me stoop, not to mention, clink when I walk. When I do wear medals, it is usually only my Eagle Medal.

As pointed out by the esteemed Bob White, a local troop cannot add or subtract from the requirements of a rank. According The Boy Scout Handbook, the requirements for Eagle Scout are: 1)Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 6 mouth as a Life Scout. 2) Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law in everyday life. 3) Earn a total of 21 merit badges.(followed by a listing) 4) While a Life Scout, serve actively for a period of 6 monthsin one or more postions of responsibility (followed by a listing). 5) While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religous organzation, any school, or your community. (This project should benefit an organzation other than Boy Scouting.) The project idea must be approved by the organzation benefiting and the council or district before you start. You must use the Life to Eagle Packet, BSA publication No. 18-927, meeting this requirement. 6) Take part in a Scoutmaster Conference, 7) Successfully complete an Eagle Scout board of review. If a Scout has met all that is required, his is an Eagle Scout. Nowhere does it state that the Scout must exceed these standards, by remaining active beyond the six months as required. It is a loophole that exist, that recognizes, IMHO, that the average age of an Eagle Scout is 17.2 years, and that there a lot of distrctions at that age. In my dealing with Life Scouts, they either are going full tilt for Eagle or are resting on their laurels and wait until almost the last minute to finish everything required. After age 15, they run into girls, jobs and cars; not to mention sports and acamdemics. Scott Hemgren ADC Central Minnesota Council

The Scoutmaster has the influnce of many Scout in the time he/she serves. Nationwide, the average time a SM serves is 10.5 years. Most SM's I know serve that long or longer. In troop I am Commisioner for, the SM just retired after 15 years of service to boys in our community. I feel that as long as the SM is happy in the job, is giving the Scouts a quality program and feels he/she is effective, ge/she should continue. When program becomes stale, the SM is shows signs of burn out or boys are leaving at high rate, it is time for a change. This can determined by the SM, the Troop Committe, and/or the Commissioner. The important thing is that a quality program is provided to the Scouts in the troop. Scott Hemgren ADC Central Minnesota Council

1.10:Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, Eagle, Eagle with Bronze Palm, Eagle with Gold Palm, Eagle with Silver Palm. 2. First Class The biggest problem I see with Board of Reviews is the tendency to re-certify that Scout has earned the rank he is appearing to the board for, often having him repass the requirements. This not true for Eagle Boards, which in my Council is done on the District Level. The board is to ensure that a quality program is being run in the troop, the Scout grasps the concepts in his advancement requirements, and that his experience in the troop is a good one. The questions should focus on general issues of the rank, what the Scout liked and disliked of the process, how he feels about the troop, and such questions. He should not be re-tested on the requirements of the rank he is trying for. Questions about how he lives the Scout Law are always apporiate for any rank. Scoutmaster Conferences are part of the advancement process, and can be done at anytime the Scoutmaster feels it is necessary, especially with a Scout that isn't advancing regularly. I recommend that the Scoutmaster sit down with each Scout at least once a year, twice is better, if possible. Scott Hemgren ADC Central Minnesota Council

Contact your local American Legion Post. In their Manual of Ceremonies, they have a excellent new flag dedication ceremony. I sure the would be glad to help you out.

While advancement is something to keep a eye on, the typical Eagle is nearly 18. My troop has had 10 Eagles in the 8 years and all but one (age 16) had their packet turned very near their 18th birthday. I have a Scout currently working on his project with a little more than a month until his 18th birthday. Young Eagles are rarer than Eagles themselves. When I was Scout, my troop went through 7 SMs and 3 committes. I became SPL my second year in the troop and with that constant changes of adult leadership, I spent my time trying to keep the troop together, and advancement was low on my list. At almost 17, I was a Star Scout and my last SM encouraged me to go for Eagle wholeheartedly. I gave up SPL (after almost 5 years) and plunged ahead. That year, I earned 16 merit badges, Life, Eagle and a Bronze palm. I serve my local troop as Eagle Project Advisor, and I can tell you that most boys wait until almost the last day to finish everything. Having 31 Life Scouts is not unusual in large troop that you have. If the boys are activily attending, having fun, then your program is good. The 2% stat only applied to boys Nation wide, not to your local area. If a boy is motivated to become an Eagle, he will. While there is work involved, it is not impossible or overly tough, but it does require stick-to-it-ness. The best you can do encourage them to carry on, support them in their decision, keep your problem fun, varied and interesting. Scott Hemgren ADC Centraal Minnesota Council

This a good situation for the involvement of your Unit Commissioner, Assistant District Commissioner or District Commissioner. The Commissioners are trained to help units through tough issues. Many times having a third party outside of the troop's leadership can be effective in solving interal issues within the troop. I would urge you to contact your Council Service to locate the Commissioner assigned to your area. I agree that training can also be effective, and your Commissioner can assist with setting up such training in your troop. The ASM's should not gang up on the SM since will threaten his/her authority within the troop. The SM is charged with carrying out the program the patrol leader's council plans and the committe approves. The ASM's are there to assist the SM is carrying this duty and to oversee patrol operation, interface with Webelos dens, guiding junior leaders such as the Scribe, Librian, Quartermaster, and other joobs assigned by the SM. An ineffective SPL can cause a great deal of confusion within the troop, since he is the senior youth leader. A troop is the top down type of leadership model, so if the top leader is drop the ball, the entire structure falls down. Scott Hemgren ADC Central Minnesota Council

In the units I work with, I recommend the crossover is done is Feb or March, to allow 1) the new Scouts are able to participate in the Spring fundraiser of the troop and 2)the new Scouts get 4-6 months of being a Boy Scout before going to camp. I also recommend that the den crosses over as agroup to form a new patrol in the troop. This will help the boys gain the safety of staying with a group they know, while learning about how to be a Boy Scout. Talk to your Scoutmaster about a Troop Guide to help this new patrol. What to do in your situtation is to keep the boys active in Boy Scout level activities. We are losing boys at the cross over time, due to they are bored with Scouting after 5 years (if they were Tiger on thru) and are looking for new adventures. The earlier they can get into the troop and join in the activities, the more excited they will become about being a Boy Scout. Some boys give up on Scouting after Cub Scouts, and the point of the Webelos program is to prepare the boys to become Boy Scouts. Scott Hemgren ADC Central Minnesota Council