shemgren

On the Eagle Scout Rank Application, No. 58-728, 2002 Printing, the following individuals sign on the form: Applicant, SM, CC, someone from the Council Office, the chair of the Board of Review and the Scout Executive. Unless you are one the above, you don't sign off on the Scout's Eagle. I agree that you should voice your concerns with the Board of Review, and let them do their job.

According to Guide to Safe Scouting, hazing is not allowed in any form! If such things are occurring, the SM should deal with it IMMEDIATELY!! If the SM and the PLC don't act, the CC must be informed to get the committee to act immediately. The next step is to involve the COR. The SM is charged with overseeing the troop program is quality and with the guidelines of the BSA Rules and Regs. The difficulty in your situtation is that you are dealing with a tradition. Get your Unit Commissioner to help you convince the SM, the PLC and the Committee to stop this behavior and comply with BSA rules and regs. Such activity such as you describe was happening at Council Camp I became involved with, I went to the leadership of camp with my copy of the Guide to Safe Scouting and the behavior stopped immediately.

Bob White: I read the document you referred to and you are correct. I will immediately have the troop change their policy to comply. If you have read my post in other threads, I am fighting againist a old SM's influence within the troop and slowly getting all back in line, with bylaws and policies next on my list. In addition, the advice for that policy can from my district avancement chair, who I will present a current copy of that book. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and this proves that even after over 30 years of Scouting, I still don't know it all.(This message has been edited by shemgren)

In reguard of age of Den Chiefs, I normally recommend that they have been in the troop for at least a year, should have completed 1st Class, and as stated before, have the nod of the SM, SPL, CM and DL. The Pack is responsible to train him in his duties. He remains part of this troop and patrol. Additionally, the Scout should be fairly mature, since the DL doesn't need or deserve another boy to act up during the meetings. The Den Chief should be the activities assistant for such things as games, crafts, ceremonies, help in preping for skits, etc. In Webelos, he can be a great asset in helping the Webelos Scouts in their task of becoming Boy Scouts. By having a living, breathing example of a Boy Scout, the Webelos can see where they are headed as the Den Chief's uniform changes with rank, camp patches,etc. The best time to have a Den Chief of all is in Webelos. Please note, your Scout needs to change his Den Chief cord from the blue and gold cord of a Cub Scout Den Chief to the blue, red and green cord of a Webelos Den Chief.

The accreditation of Cub Scout and Boy Scout Camps is done the National Camp School, which has the authority to ensure that the camp's facilities and program are in compliance with National's guidelines. The National Camp School inspects the camp througout the year to ensure all guidelines are met. This body sets the guidelines. If the local council which owns the camp, set further restrictions on certian buildings, this may be due to donation to the council or the camp with that the building use was set as a situpation to the gift, or in keeping with the council may have a specific program goal that is met by exclusive use of one building for that purpose. In my local camp, the OA has a building that is used for nothing else. In addition, the camp must meet all local and state rules and regs.

Parent can sign off any requirements in the Boy Scout program provided they are qualified as a Troop Leader (SM, ASM, CC or MC) or as a Merit Badge Counselor in the Merit Badge in question. My troop, as well as many troops in my area, have a policy that prohibits family members from signing off on requirements. In addition, since you can sign up for 6 merit badges, my troop has a policy that you can only use one counselor for 2 Eagle required and 4 merit badges in total. This is in place to help the boys meet other adults while working on the scouting trail. Again, many of the troops in my area have simular policies. I would advise that the Scout find someone other than the family member to sign off on requirements, and if that is happening, the the adult take precautions that he/she treats the Scout the same way as all the others.

In answer to your point C., "managing an effiective meeting", such things are part of JLTC, in a model PLC and Troop meeting, Effective Leadership, Effective Communications and Controlling the Group. In course I was Scoutmaster for, these were the sessions that cover that area. There is not a seperate session in the slyabus on that topic.

The SMC is designed for the SM and the Scout to plan the future,look at the past, to get at the Scout's feelings of how he is doing in life, and to get to know each other. The first point of the Scout Law is "a Scout is Trustworthy." The person(s) who sign off the advancement and the Scout himself are stating that he has completed the requirements and the SMC is the second to last requirement. Never should the SMC or the BOR retest the Scout! If this happening, the Committe should take strong look at what the SM is doing and why he or she feels it necessary for this level of review. To state that there may be lack of proper training may be at the cause is the stock answer, however, I feel by the comments of the poster that this due to these leaders' attitude. Grilling should never be part of the equation. Most SMC's I have conducted and observed are laid back and informal, a simple talk between a Scout and the SM about the Scout.

The important thing to remember is that we are volunteers in the organization. No one can fore you even to wear a uniform. If you want only one uniform, that is your choice. If you want several to reflect your involvement, that also is your choice. Personally, I have two, a tan BS shirt and a green Venturing shirt, both outfited with ADC insignia, since that is my primary registered position. When I am representing the CO as COR, I wear my American Legion uniform.

At the time I started to actively pursue change, I was not COR. At the tail end of the period of the SM, I was appointed COR and began to push the issue, which probably helped the old SM in his decision to step aside.

Per the flag equitte book available from American Legion or VFW posts, the American Flag must be first in and last out or at the same time as the others. It cannot be proceeded by other flags on American soil at presentation. I would have the American flag with the described ceremony come all the way to the stage and then have the other flags follow only when the American flag is on the stage. You might have the soloist sing before presentation of the other flags. I think that would make an impressive presentation.

I experienced a simular problem in the troop I serve as UC and COR. The SM had been there for 15 years and ran the program as he saw fit. Boy leadership was non exisitant and the patrols were in name only. I got actively involved, but I was often told by the committee to close my ears and ingore the problems. Ths SM came to me and expressed his desire to step down, and I started to search for a replacement. The new SM went to training, started to use patrols and is open to suggestions. In addtion, the CC and most of the committee has changed. There is hope, but the best choices for help is the UC and COR. The COR is charged with ensuring that the troop has adequate leadership to run the program in keeping of BSA and the CO rules and regs. The COR has the authority to remove any leader or member from the troop at any time he or she feels it is in the best interest of the troop. The SM in MomScouter's troop is somewhat typical in a rural area. I would suggest toughing it out for the year, while letting the SM see that there is a light end of the tunnel, in the way of new leaders to help and maybe even giving him a chance to take a breather. Go ahead and talk to your UC, MomScouter, he or she may have some suggestions you haven't thought of, since UC's usually are familar with the area and the goings on in the unit. Let the UC make the approach the SM with suggestions of change. If the UC cannot make headway, then go to your CO.

In addition, my troop will have 5 new Eagle Scouts this year. This will make 20 since I earned mine, the first in my troop's history.

Congrats Matt and Ed! Way to go! I am most glad to hear that Matt will continue as ASM. Allow me to pass along some advise that was given to me when I made the transistion from boy leader to adult: To be a successful Scouter, you must enjoy the out of doors, working with young men to help them to become well rounded adults and drink coffee. I asked this sage Scouter what that last thing had to do with the others. He replied that every Scout funcution he has attended served coffee and he further suggested I bring my own cup. Scott Hemgren Eagle Scout, Class of 1980(This message has been edited by shemgren)(This message has been edited by shemgren)

In addition to colleges putting weight on Eagle Scout, the armed services award one grade in pay increase for an elisted man for being an Eagle Scout. A young man in my troop is getting this when his joins up this summer.

In my council, we have a large event in April at a military base. It is attended by over 90% of the troops in the council. This is used as a communication point for different programs in the council. I normally recommend that Webelos to Scout Transistion occur in February or March to allow: 1) The new Scouts to opportunity to work as Boy Scouts for several months before going to summer camp. 2) The new Scouts have the opportunity to participate in the spring fundraiser of the Troop, to help pay for summer camp. 3) Webelos is only supposed to be a 18 month program (September to August, year 1; September to March, year 2).

Our Troop bylaws has a provision that the SM can override the normal rank requirement and time in other jobs for the position of SPL. When we wrote our bylaws, we recognized there might be times this would be necessary. IMHO, the SPL is an elected postion and shouldn't be appointed unless there is no way to have an election. The election process teaches the Scouts a lesson in how in the real world leaders are selected to lead our society. One the aims of Scouting is Citizenship Devolpment. By modeling that in the Troop's leadership, we help the Scouts to understand the process.

While I was a Scout in the 70's and early 80's, my troop which my father helped found, went through 7 SM's and 3 committees. My goal as a Scout was to hold the troop together. My last SM, Carey, turn me around and in two years, I went from Star to Eagle with a Bronze Palm. My continued service to Scouting stems from my strong desire in helping Scouts NOT to experience the things I went through as a Scout. I have been fairly successfull of instilling this into the leaders I have worked with and trained. As an Assistant District Commissioner, I have contact with number of leaders in Troops and Packs. I work with unit leaders to help them provide a quality program that follows the BSA rules and regs; and embraces the ethics of Scouting. While it is true that not all units provide the best program by the guidelines laid out in the literature. Best we can hope for is that the leaders are doing for the right reasons and not out of some feeling of obligation or the feeling: "If I don't do it, no one else will." The right reasons are to help young men grow into adults that have good citizenship, strong moral charactor, physical and mental fitness. Leaders often become grumpy as they approach the burn out phase of leadership. It should be an indicator to those around them that it is time for a change. Get your COR and Commissioner involved in finding a replacement or at least, offer to assist the leader in his duties to lessen the approaching problem. These signs are often an indicator that the leader has taken too much of the responsibility for the unit. He/she maybe doing the SM/Cm and tresurer and advancements, and 20 other things no one is doing. The committee and the other leaders should take such actions to help the burnt out leader to find a way to relieve the stress he or she is experiencing. A properly run Boy Scout Troop or Cub Scout Pack should have shared leadership in the youth and the adults, more so in a troop.

Having served as a Chaplain for the Cub Scout camps in my council, I have strived to provide services that are upbeat and not aimed at any particilar faith. The format I use is a Pentetoch reading (the first 5 books of the Bible and the Koran), a message usually on Scout Ethics and an offering for the World Friendship Fund. As far as mandatory service attendance, IMHO, duty to God and the Scout Law point of Reverant means following the religous practices of your family, while respecting the faith of others. B-P felt that belief in God was important to be a well rounded indivdual, and in training, they take pains to explain that Scouting is non-sectartian, which means the BSA does not define God or the practices of worshiping God. (See the SM's Handbook, the Cub Scout Leader Book and the Declaration of Religous Princple on the Adult Aplication). In Scouting, we are striving to help boys to become well rounded adults, and some people do not participate ogranized religous activities, and we MUST respect that (a Scout is Reverant). If such an situtation arose in my unit, I would talk to the parent, excuse the Scout from the services and discuss the issue with committee as soon as possible to clarify the parents views. A public discussion in front the Scouts should be avoided. That the Scout enjoyed service was proably due to the novelity of attending a "fun" religous service.

My unit used beads to identify activities more than acheivements. For example, black for bad weather at a campout, white if it snow (this can happen in Minnesota), blue if the weather was good. We had an ice blue one for winter camping. Also there were attendance beads, green for one meeting, silver for a month, gold for a year. The system allowed some misses for good reason to still get your bead. Attendance was taken carefully, and there was no disputes. We used a fob simular to one in the BSA catalog to wear on our belt to show our beads off. We purchased the beads at a craft shop.(This message has been edited by shemgren)

In my Council, they do a mailing to boys who of Cub Scout age, but not involved, inviting them to Day Camp. Once there, the boys are signed up and assigned to the local pack. The Cubmaster recieves an update with boys recruited to the unit a few weeks latter. This program gains the unit several new boy each year. In addition my local pack has a partnership with the local Boys and Girls club, netting a few more boys for involvement. Also, we do School Night for Scouting on the third Thursday of September.

On page 78 of the Troop Program Resources book, there is two Patrol Leader Installation ceremonies that can be adapted to other POR's.

Last night at the troop meeting, the Scouts reorganized themselves into 2 patrols. The troop hasn't used the patrol method well under the previous SM for the last 3-5 years, having patrols in name only, and there was at least 6 different parts of former patrols represented by the 11 Scouts present. One patrol fairily easily came up with a name, the other patrol debated most of the time over things that were degoratory, inapporiate, and just plain crude. After some guidiance, they came up with a name that was acceptable. This patrol is mostly the older Scouts (they chose their own patrol makeup) 15-16 year olds. Also, these Scouts have spent their time as Scouts under the old SM. My concern is how to guide this patrol in keeping in line with the Scouting ethics, while at the same time not alienating from the Troop in whole. We will gain 5 new Scouts on Saturday at the Pack's Blue and Gold. Any suggestions will be welcomed.

BSA policy prohibits a person from having more than one primary postition, which includes: CM, SM, EA, VA, DL, WDL, and CC. There are several good reasons for this, 1) Youth Protection, 2) The Shared Leadership concept, 3) too much authority in one person's hands. If you serve Scouting in that fashion, you will burn out very quickly. Recruitment of additional adults needs to be paramount in units where this is happening.

The Mutual of Omaha insurance protects: 1}all Scouts in the unit, 2) all the leaders, 3) any potential Scouts attending the event; providing that the event is a) approved by the Troop Committee, b) covered by a Tour Permit, c) the event is operated in compliance with BSA rules and policies, d) and the Youth Protection guidlines and policies in the Guide to Safe Scouting are adhered to. The BSA's liability insurance for each registered adult follows the same guidelines for coverage. No where in any of these conditions is a Scout uniform required. While it is a great thing to have the Scouts and Scouters in uniform while the Troop travels, it is not a official requirement for insurance coverage.