SharonNC

Hi to NJCubScouter, Don't worry, when you pick him up tomorrow he's going to be so tired it will be like pulling hen's teeth to get information. Our boys didn't stop talking all the way home from camp, but the minute they got in their own parents cars they were asleep within minutes. I can't swear to every troop, but our guy's really worked together and helped one another out at camp. We had 4 boys that had never been to that particular camp, so they split up set up jobs of setting up our campsite and then they split into teams to take the new guys on the grand tour of shortcuts to class areas. I hope your son tells you he had a wonderful time and learned a lot. I suggest every adult go one time, at least. Our SPL was very good at helping the younger ones out, showing them easier or safer ways of doing things. The campsite took on a real family/home feeling before Monday night. That's a good feeling for this leader, anyway!

Thank you, thank you! Each of you made very good points. I'll further explain just a little of what's happening in our troop. I have been the CC for 3 years. Our former SM left due to job change and a new one took over. The former SM had a 'if I don't do it myself, it won't happen' attitude and way of running the troop. He left at the end of my first year. Then his chief ASM took over, he continued the status quo, while complaining that I needed to "find" a SM because he couldn't do it all. We lost more boys. Finally another of the ASM's went to SM Fundamentals and he traded places with the current SM. {Confused yet? Imagine the chagrin of he boys!} Then in Sept. our current SM went to Iraq. He has a more laid back, quiet control, than the former SM had. But he will allow more 'boys will be boys' than I do. I stepped in as acting SM and turned the committee over to our existing committee members. NOW the fun began, because I started the process of a BOY LED troop. They are working with their SPL, PL, and APL. It's been a shock to their systems, but they are loving it. I actually took 13 of the 19 boys on our roll to summer camp and got to sit in my chair and hear all about who was cleaning their tent and who was not. There were no fights, no arguments, and minimal teasing. It was great! As a first time of taking a troop, it was the best of the best. You're current now, except for the situation that came up last night. I was there, still as the SM, the ASM that was to assist didn't show up. The mom that stayed is a member of committee and was my 2nd, until another committee person could get there and she could go to school. The mom that got upset and threatened the offending boy IS trained. I just had to step between them and give them both time to take a breath and defuse the situation of the moment. I gave each boy an opportunity to hear the other's story without interruption, in front of the offended mom, including her son. I lead with questions that brought out honest answers, including her son's actual aggravation of the situation. I did not force the apologies, I did ask how they would like the same treatment. I did ask how they thought it should be resolved. They came forth with the apologies to one another and the mom apologized to the child she threatened. I did inform the boys we'll be having a forced discussion on Monday at the meeting (my last as acting SM, he's back and will be home from leave on the 31st and taking back over) They will lead the discussion, the training, and they will agree on what the consequences will be if we have a future incident. I appreciate the fact that the SM and ASM's set the tone. The parents of all the boys in the troop have told me what a wonderful thing has happened in that the boys are now running the troop, teaching one another, and they don't have to worry about their child being hurt anymore. I also can appreciate that mother wanting to protect her child! The thing that could have resulted from her loss of temper though is that I could have been bailing her out of jail. That I refuse to allow, if I can help it. I really think that once the boys have had time to think about their actions and have time to reflect with one another what is appropriate (and not so) behavior, we'll have no more of this type of issue. I sat with each one after a time, in a full dining room full view of 50 other people and we quietly discussed the way they feel when older or bigger people take over their space and make fun of them. All but 2 of the boys are basically sound but impetutous boys. They have the typical "know it all attitude" sometimes and sometimes they are very like sponges, absorbing all the good will they can. I pray they have a willing heart to hear the Golden Rule. We've come a long way in a short time, already, I no longer have to council with disruptive boys every meeting. That's a major sign to me that "Boy Led" is best. Thanks again, and please continue to suggest. I do use SM minutes, every meeting, the parents that are there get as much from them as the boys do. Sharon

There has been a lot of discussion among parents of the troop boys about this. One reads the "Guide to safe Scouting" and it leaves pretty clear in my mind that "I'll call all my friends that are juniors and seniors and have them kill you" is a direct threat and not just a joke. This happened at a community service project we were working at as a troop. The boy that was threatened by two of the senior boys, told his mother who happened to be helping, instead of the SM. The mother jumped! She called me and the boy that she preceived to have 'threatened' her son. I had to get between them. I stopped the verbal attack, went to get the child that complained of being threatened. Once he was there, it came to light that ANOTHER boy was also involved. I went to get him. Making sure that Mom was several yards away from all boys, and that the two on the spot were separated and all were in my visual range. The two older boys didn't deny anything, except the threat to 'kill'. They saw it as a joke, but the younger boy and his mom saw it as a personal threat as he begins high school in a couple of weeks. I took the initiative and asked the open questions that brought us to apologies and a recognition of everyone's wrong doing in the incident. Including the younger boy recogizing that he runs his mouth to much and that he was rude to tell them to "shut up" prior to the threats/joke. My question, in this long diatribe, is HOW do you train the parents to allow the SM to handle the situation when it arizes at a troop function/event? HOW do you teach the boys the Golden Rule when the parents of said boys have no conscience? HOW do I teach the boys hazing is wrong--and not a joke? I'm doing the whole thing at the troop meeting Monday night, so please suggest suggest suggest. I'm taking my 'Guide to Safe Scouting'--I've told the boys they are required to be there, now do I insist parents attend as well? HELP, please! Sharon

Hey, Steele man, one of my dearest friends is a professional. I count many of them friends, but this guy and his wife, have been my FRIENDS since forever. I may not always agree with everything that comes from the professional viewpoint, but I certainly respect and value professional opinions. You're very straightforward about letting us know what is your opinion and what is the 'book' stock answers. Don't let a few bad apples ruin the barrel. You are a valued member of this forum, to me, so hang in and help freeze out those that are off topic, off their rockers, or just mean. We need you! Sharon

Hi Osemu, I'm doing much better. They did one carotid artery and put in a stent, and with medication, exercise, and God's grace. I'm doing better. The stress that I was working in at school with a very hateful principal and the many many hours I spent working with Scouts, had to be cut back. I had a rough go for about a year and then with diet, exercise, and determination (southern grit) I'm forging ahead. My father died at 48 years after a heart attack, so I was not surprised to have one get to me. I do hope your SM gets better, there are so many wonderful medicines and treatments available, there is really no reason for folks to suffer anymore. Sharon

I retired in November 2001 after a heart attack from Public School education. I had been a teaching assistant for nine years previously. I have since worked 2 summers as our summer camp business manager and increased my Scouting hours to +60 a week. LOL I work with a troop weekly, with events monthly, and work (yes, I actually work it, I'm not just a name on the list) a position on our Council Executive board. Good thing the heart is getting stronger, eh?

Point taken, each Council/District/Troop does things according to standards set within each entity. We, in our troop, have the boys sit before a BOR prior to presenting his request for a Project Approval BOR by the District Advancement committee. (That's the standard of our council executive board, that each district have a BOR for project approval prior to the project and a BOR for Eagle rank approval) For the troop BOR, the boy has a chance to perfect his presentation method, get help/suggestions from different eyes than the SM and ASM, and AC of the troop, and he becomes more comfortable going before a group of strangers, when he's well prepared. There are questions, there are pictures (usually) and when the Scout and the BOR members are satisfied that the boy is actively planning and working toward the goal, the book is signed by me, the troop CC. (Remember, that's the nature of a BOR to HELP the boy attain his confidence?) Then our district AC is contacted, by the youth, to schedule an appointment to review his project package. That person schedules the youth's BOR for project approval and the youth notifies the SM who must attend with the youth during the presentation. The whole process of scheduling, begins again after the youth completes the project. This time there is no troop committee board, the SM, CC, and Advancement chair for the troop simply review the write up, IF he requests it. The scheduling of an appointment with the District Eagle Board Chairman, the alerting the SM to attend, all fall on the youth. We are guided by the "The Council" #33071B page 13, the guidebook, "The District" #33070A pages 8 & 9, "Troop Committee Guidebook" #34505B, "The Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook # 18-927C (given out at our local council service center)and finally the "Scoutmaster Handbook" #33009. Does it mean that every council, district, or troop follows the same procedures? Good heavens no! But are we satisfied that each boy that makes it through the process is Eagle Scout? Oh, absolutely! Have we had boys disappointed/hurt/angry because the had to follow these procedures? Not in my 27 years in this district (I've often been called to sit on those Eagle BORs for our District.) They are always telling us how much they learned, how well prepared they are for their life in college and the job market. Yes, I wear glasses and I'm so glad to sing "I can see clearly now...." I would never presume to tell anyone else how to run things, but we here don't seem to have the challenges that brought on this thread, so maybe we're not so bad off, after all! Sharon

It would be the boy's responsibility to have the requirements and phamplet to work from. As it is the boy that must call the MBC, not the Counselor calling the boy. Sharon

Hey, just a minute here....how could an AC give 'approval' over the telephone? Don't you have to go before the committee to get that approval? You need to let that District Chairman know that he needs to train his committee. That's the person that needs to handle the mess of this kettle of rotting fish. Eagle rank is the highest most stringent requirements, has the least amount of play in my mind, and allowing this to 'pass' is only fostering the ill will of those to follow. Mom and Dad may have to bear the brunt of disappointment, but the boys of your district and troop that are following in his footsteps are the ones you must protect. In my humble opinion. Sharon

Having been the Family phase chairman one year for FOS, the training we received was very clear on handling funds. This being said, there are folks that won't go to trainings, that won't follow directions, that choose their own way of 'mis'handling the most minute detail. This, however, is not a minute detail, money is to hard to come by! Mr. Steele, have you thought of a fireside chat? Of course, you may open a can of worms instead of the spaghetti, but........ Have you considered that you and the DE, and the FOS chairman, together should go to this particular unit committee meeting and investigate the allegations? Is this a person that your District Executive knows well? Would the person, perhaps be giving to the Unit for something, like a son's summer camp and have confused the FOS pledge with it? I don't think telephone calls are going to help you here. I believe that part of any investigation has to rely on instinct and observation. Can you read the man over the telephone? {Oh, I see, your council is one of the wealthy ones that have videophones?? That's wonderful, will you share your wealth with our little council?} Don't you have a friendly detective in the district that could advise you? You may be damaging the case against 'whomever' by doing to much of the telephone and warning.... Sharon

Thanks for the recommendation, Mark. I'm inspired to nag our district advancement committee to update our MBC list. I have just to many boys wanting to complete things. I knew the MBC didn't have to be from our district, but since our summer camp experience kept them pretty busy, there wasn't a lot of time for them to conference on some of their past workings. But there's nothing to keep us from taking them there for a day, or having email correspondence to the counselor, is there?

We have boys that have merit badges they started at summer camp 2 years ago, but are unable to finish them because there are no registered MBC in our district. How long can they carry these, will the new MBC cause them to start over? How dow we keep them from losing interest when they aren't able to complete the MB? Just a few questions...lol

Herbert C. Bonner Scout Reservation Blounts Creek, NC campbonner.org There is a High Adventure Sea Base at this camp also.

Our troop requires it of committee members, too, but......."can't get there this weekend, can't go then, I work, I have kids," YOU get the picture. I have begun instituting training into all our meetings, that is I feature a part of the training in every meeting and no one fills a position just for the name of it. They have to fill out the BSA application, read the by-laws, and sign a copy of their 'job description,', bottom line, we've got 16 really active boys and 4 that are trying to 'earn' the Eagle rank by osmosis. Hey, I always have the coffeepot on, it's job requirement isn't it? The boys will tell you, when we camp, the coffeepot is the first thing to go into the trailer. lol Sharon T216 CC

As the CC and currently 'acting' SM, I have read this thread with equal interest. We follow the BSA guidelines in our troop. The only regret we, the trained members of the troop, is that we can't force the rest of the adults to get trained!!! We have an open forum, but we do 'vote' on major expenditures. Our regular SM and ASM's re encouraged to attend the committee meetings, our SPL or ASPL are required to attend, our parents are encouraged to attend, but the drop off the boy and run to do errands continues UNLESS there is a 'situation/challenge' The key to the whole committee, Junior Leader, Scoutmaster roles, in my humble opinion, is communication, cooperation, and NOT ego. To remember why we do what we do is more important than the technical side of things. The committee secretary and I took our troop to summer camp this year, the SM and ASM's being in a war situation forced the committee to be actively involved in the weekly meetings, in summer camp, and in parental challenges. I have always had the upmost respect for any SM, there are parents that just don't 'get it' or want to 'get it,' and to force one person (SM) to have to justify or answer for everything is assinine! We, the committee, have always taken active roles in keeping the troop working. The best way to know what's needed is to be on hand when it's happening. To that end, we encourage parents to have a quiet seat in the corner of our meetings and just observe. It can make a difference in understanding and in help to come. Sharon