Sentinel947

CNY, This sounds brutal, but here it is. If you were Scoutmaster, there is no rule saying you have to keep this troublemaking ASM. You have the right as the ASM to form your team.

CNY what is your role? Unfortunately I'm going to echo the others. The only way to avoid having this guy become SM is to find a qualified candidate who will run the program properly, and get the CC to nominate him and the current SM to train him.

I'm sorry something like this happened. I'll keep your family in my thoughts. Let us know if there's something we can do. Sentinel947

I'm assuming that wasn't aimed directly at me but since it was so close to my post, I feel compelled to reply. Your generalization is not accurate. I follow the BSA's Uniform guide. I wear the complete uniform to every Meeting, Outing, and ceremony. However, I'm not sure what "BSA protocol on uniforming" you are referring to. I use the "Guide to to Awards and Insignia and the Boy Scout Handbook". http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pd...6_Section1.pdf In said Guide.. it states: "The Boy Scouts of America has always been a uniformed body. Its uniforms help to create a sense of belonging. They symbolize character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. Wearing a uniform gives youth and adult members a sense of identification and commitment." I believe that is a perfect reason to have a standard uniform. However, it also says: "​While wearing the uniform is not mandatory, it is highly encouraged. The leaders of Scouting both volunteer and professionalâ€â€promote the wearing of the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions." The key phrase in this game of scrabble is not bovine excrement, but "on all suitable occasions." In the view of my Troop at it's volunteers, out in field on a camping Trip, a uniform that is well over $100 dollars would be a financial burden to replace and an inconvenience to parents. Personally, I don't believe the Centennial Uniform is particularly durable or suitable for the back country. "Class B" is not an official BSA term, but has been in use in the BSA vernacular that I don't think I committed a deadly sin by using said term in it's appropriate context. I understand that you disagree. That's fine. You can have all the strongly worded opinions you want, but I think you should be more charitable to your fellow Scouters. Or you can be the Uniform Police. Every troop in my area seems to operate the same way. And that way is really simply described in the Scout book I used as a youth. If you want to follow along at home it is the 11th Edition of the Scout Handbook. I repeat what it says on Page 12 and 13 under the title "The Scout Uniform." "The Complete official uniform includes the Scout long-sleeved or short sleeved shirt, Scout pants or shorts, Scout belt and buckle, Scout socks or knee socks. A neckerchief and cap or campaign hat are optional. Wear full uniform for all ceremonial and indoor activities, such as troop meetings, courts of honor, and most other indoor functions. The uniform should also be worn during special outdoor occasions, such as Scout shows, flag ceremonies and special times at summer camp. (Emphasis added for clarity) ​For outdoor activities, Scouts may wear troop or camp t shirts with the scout pants or shorts, or other appropriate attire." That sounds a bit like wearing it for ceremonial and indoor occasions, which I described like a dress uniform. I'll still describe it that way. Sorry. So in short. I'm not making things up, nor am I making excuses. It would seem you've made your own policy, but I'll let you speak for yourself and not make assumptions. That way, only one of us is stepping in bovine excrement. Sorry for yanking your chain Stosh, I can't help myself. =P Sentinel947

When I searched Boy Scout I got a lot of art of Scouts saluting. Regardless, I too use and treat my class A as a dress uniform. It's not durable enough to hold up to the outdoors. And cleaning it would be a pain. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with Troop T shirts out in nature. Like most things in Scouting, everything needs to be played by local conditions. Scouting is strong where I live, getting Scouts to wear the uniform, and reasonably properly isn't a challenge here. I'm naive probably, but if you run a strong boy led program, where the Scouts are challenged and responsible for the program, they'll take pride in the uniform, and that issue should largely resolve itself.

What we are really talking about is..."knowing your audience." I think we do need to tailor our recruiting pitches depending on who we are talking to. I doubt anybody disagrees...haha.

Matthew: As a College student, when I'm discussing what I do with my life and Scouting comes up, very few people jump down my throat about the Boy Scouts of America's membership policy. More often that not, people who are polite, engaging people would ask "What do you think of the membership policy?" To which I reply something to the effect of, "I believe in Scouting, and what it gives to teenagers, but I don't support the BSA's membership policies excluding homosexuals. If people like me quit the organization, the kids will suffer, and the organization will take even longer to change. Besides, what point is there opening the BSA up to homosexuals/atheists/girls, if there isn't anything left afterwards?" Maybe the people in your area are just exceedingly rude, or you've just been unlucky. I live in a pretty conservative area, and it's normally not an issue. You are trying to give your son and his friends the best experience possible, if people are jumping down your throat about a policy you don't make, you probably don't want them to be involved in the program anyways. Sentinel947

With the BSA, I never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by ignorance.

Ya'll are killing me.

Sorry.... I understand about the issue of leader/subordinate roles. However, I think you missed my point entirely. All of the Venturer "adult participants" are in fact. "adults". While I'm not advocating parents dating venturers like what you just implied. If an 18 year old Venturer is dating a 20 year old Venturer, they are both Adults. Especially if the policy is calling them "adult participants." My point has very little to do with dating at all. It wasn't about making 40 year olds able to date 18 year old participants, but rather the absurdity of the verbal gymnastics this policy is attempting to go through. I'm amazed (As I'm sure everyone else is) at trying to make them be somewhat/halfway/not really adults. Like you replied to my post "the choir has been preached to." As a relatively new leader to the program, Who was not a venturer as a youth and isn't a Venture crew advisor now, I haven't had to opportunity to contribute my alto tones to this particular choir. I suppose if this is the price to pay to eventually have rules that make sense three years down the line, I suppose it's a small price to pay. I'm sure the media choir is going to spin this about the membership issue, which is why I'm sure it moved to I&P, but I think this change was long overdue. It never made much sense. Anytime you have to bring out a chart to figure out whether 18+ year old adults are actually adults by the organizational policies, those policies don't make a whole lot of sense. What does this mean for the Order of the Arrow? Sentinel947

18 year olds are adults, should be registered and treated like ones. Period. "Adult participants?" What kind of lawyer speak is that? Either keep 18-20 year old Venturers as youth, or make them be adults. Don't go halfway. And what the heck is "cannot date adults." They are adults if they are over 18. Wtf???

The polarization of American society continues,I don't think this kinda thing is appropriate.

That's my bias creeping in. I don't have any kids in the program. So I can play the long term game.

Then they need to be trained better, or replaced with somebody who will do the job properly. As the Committee Chair, you are ideally placed to make this happen for your Scouts. Give your Scouts the program done right. A troop where your older boys train the younger Scouts and lead them. Where younger Scouts have positive peer role models to look up to. Where the Scoutmaster coaches the Scouts to lead the troop, and helps them develop a Troop program that helps them retain their skills. But doesn't do it for them. That way Scoutmaster's conferences help the Scoutmaster get to know his Scouts, and the Board of Review helps the Committee figure out the health of their troop. Everything in the Scouting program is there for a reason, we should use the parts of the program for their proper purpose. I hope I'm not beating a dead horse. I recommend getting them trained first... removing people from their positions is the last option. Sentinel947

One of my Scouts lost his father in January. I was really surprised when I saw the email from the Scoutmaster.Besides thinking about what people would say at my memorial. I also think often, "If I died tomorrow, what were my last interactions like with the people I care about? That was a lesson my mother taught me after 9/11 and it has stuck with me. Never take tomorrow for granted. My prayers will be with those young scouts, their family, and your community.

Wow, we must know some very different "Gifted" millennial kids. I don't think your generalizations are generally accurate. I've seen some Scouts who meet your description and a lot that don't. Just my two cents a "middle" to "later" model millennial.

I still think that memorial statute is a terrible design.

First off, thank you for taking an interest in this young man. Sometimes in academics, where kids are herded through in large classes, teenagers don't feel like their instructors are looking out for them. Your questions have already been answered, so I won't pile on there. From my own experience as a high school and current college student, I waste plenty of time. I imagine if this Scout and his parents can be honest with themselves, he can find time to do his homework and do a little extra studying, instead of sitting on Social Media, or playing Video Games or watching TV. As somebody who did the Church, Scouting, Band, Marching Band gig in High School, I can say it was time consuming but I probably had 2-3 hours a day to do homework and study. I was about the definition of an average student, with a 3.2 GPA. That put me in about the 40th percentile of my graduating class. As a current Assistant Scoutmaster, I'd never have an issue with a Scout taking a few weeks off to refocus on Schoolwork. My concern however is that if a teen who doesn't like school is forced to quit things they enjoy to do more schoolwork, that extra time won't be filled with Schoolwork. I can practically guarantee it. I recommend you or his parents or his Scoutmaster talk to him about time manangement, and try to help him find areas after school, after/before band practice or Scout meetings that he can better utilize on his studies. Sentinel947

LeCastor, as a college age millennial, if you asked me to help start a Cub Scout pack, as much as I love Scouting, I'm not sure I'd agree to that. I have noticed among my friends I volunteer more than most of them.

This. Is. My. Moment. Hahahaha... All joking aside, as a 20 something ASM, I've had some of the same issues with older parents in their 30's or 40's. Lack of commitment to things is extremely annoying. As a disclaimer, I'm nowhere near having a Scouting age kid. I think with any parent, asking them directly with a specific need your Troop has is the way to go. What issues are you having that are specific to millennials and not to parents of any generation? Most parents put their kids in Scouting because their kids want to have fun, they want their kids exposed to Scouting's values. This will probably always be the primary reasons. I don't know if younger adults are less willing to give their time or money to Scouting. I have no idea what being a parent is like financially or time wise. What's in it for me? Hasn't this always been an issue with recruiting new members? I'd imagine millennial/parents aren't significantly different than previous generations in this regard. My parents are baby boomers and weren't involved in my Scouting career much. They weren't asked, so they rarely volunteered. Those of us who have been Scouters for a while know what's in it for us. (The Scouters paycheck hahaha...) Why should I? Well its the chance to watch your kid grow up, and contribute to him having a better experience. Lack of Commitment... again, I'm not sure this is specific to Millennials or not. I tend to think Millennial as a whole are willing to volunteer and get involved. A lot of millennial are hungry to contribute and belong to something. All of the social media usage my generation is famous for is really just a bad attempt to make friends, communicate and belong. Sentinel947

My Troop has a handful of experienced Scouters to work with Scouts on their Eagles. It gives the Scouts a person to go to when they have questions. As an project coach for Scouts in my troop, I'm there to help them with questions and figure out the paperwork. The work itself is all on them, but it'd be a shame for a Scout to get stuck because they don't understand the process or the paperwork.

You are correct, I misread his comment. Sorry OP.

"He is asked questions that do not pertain to his advancement, his views on the troop, or areas he might improve." Those sort of questions are valid questions for a BOR. Unless the members of the board are trying to get the Scout to say something bad. A BOR is not all about advancement, but based on your statement I quoted, I don't agree with your assessment that those topics are out of line. Certain questions may be, but not those topics. Otherwise, yes, your troop is out of line. Bring up your issues to the Scoutmaster and CC and if that doesn't fix the problem, you can go to the Charter Organization Rep, or either put up with it or find a new Troop. I wish there was another way but there really isn't. Best of luck to you and your Scout! Sentinel947