Sentinel947

I referenced Scouts Canada to losing members, not necessarily securing the future. Scouts UK, which Cambridgeskip could tell us about, has had 5 years of growth, is now the largest youth Organization in the UK. They allow girls, atheists, and gays. I agree that Scouts Canada woes are not entirely the gay issue. I doubt the UK's growth is entirely allowing those groups either.

Be done. You clearly have no interest in listening to anybody else's opinions anyways. The religious conservatives started forcing their beliefs on the rest in the 1980's. It was codified in law in the 2000's. For many members of this forum, the shoe has been on the other foot for years. Where was your sympathy card then? I joined as a youth. I didn't find out about the policy till I was 18 or close to it. I wanted to see my younger friends through the program. Then I got attached to the other kids I was working with. And the cycle perpetuates. I love Scouting. It's history, it's historical figures, it's Oath and Law. Mentoring teenagers gives me motivation to get up and go about life every day. I've given probably the best years of my life 18-21 to Scouting in my Troop, District and Council. One issue does not define the work I've done or will do in the future. I could make a whole slew of arguments about the consistency of yours. (If you hate your district so much, why don't you leave?) But in the end I know your answer will look somewhat like mine. You're a good person. Most people in this situation are. You can call me whatever names you want. I don't care. Thanks for your service to Scouting Bad Wolf. I hope you stay, regardless of what decision they make, whenever they make it. If you don't, enjoy life on the other side, and don't lecture the Boys selling popcorn about how the BSA sold out.

Why didn't the conservatives that wanted to ban gays leave in the 70's when de facto local option was in place? Organizations change over time. Governments. The YMCA could hardly be considered Christian anymore. Some organizations, like my beloved Catholic Church are pushed from all sides to change it's doctrines. Abortion, Contraception, Gay marriage, married priests. She will resist, because these are issues of God. As Jesus said "the Gates of hell will never prevail against it." The BSA does not belong to any one church. It's an American institution, and it's values will end up reflecting that. In the end the BSA has two choices, keep the ban, keep some members now, and lose the next generation, or change now, lose members now (Like Scouts Canada) and secure the future. What did you honestly expect when they made Robert Gates the President? I hope there's a workable solution for local option, but frankly I'm not optimistic. I don't think groups like the HRC would be happy with that arrangement. I can't keep you from packing your bags if this change goes through, but as a Fifteen year member of Scouting, and a third generation Scout and Scouter, I'm just as entitled to have the BSA reflect my beliefs on the issue as everybody else. Lets be real with ourselves. If I subjected every organization to an ideological 100% purity test, I wouldn't be an American, I wouldn't be Catholic, and I wouldn't be a Scout leader. I wouldn't live in Ohio, and I wouldn't go to college. I wouldn't work with any of my previous employers. The concept of, "if you don't agree on this issue, then leave" is frankly ridiculous. Here's to a uncertain future, and some hard times for the BSA, regardless of what decision is made. Sentinel947

Yep. My Troop is searching for a new SM. There's a lot of fear of those jobs. "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"

You won't hear any complaints from me about it. What's your point exactly? The BSA should cater to older conservatives rather than young people who are about to have children? Does that make sense from an institutional standpoint?

Reminder to all that this thread is not for discussing the potential membership policy change.

Not trying to stir up this thread more than it already has been but I have a few points, observations, what have you: *In the interest of full disclosure, I'm for allowing homosexuals, girls and atheists as youth and leaders to units that want them.* 1) A majority of millennial's support gay marriage. This is a provable fact based on polling. The BSA is right to worry about the future, and about the perceptions parents who will soon have cub scout age boys. 2) I fear this will cause groups like the Mormons and Catholics to drop their units. As a Catholic myself, I understand that both groups don't believe being a homosexual is a sin, but that being in a gay marriage is. Therefore, a married gay couple wouldn't be very appropriate role models in a Mormon or Catholic unit. A celibate homosexual (like a recently aged out Scout) would probably be fine, but that only pushes their expulsion further down the road till they are dating or married someone of the same sex. 3) Public pressure by homosexual rights groups would make it impossible for any church who opposed gay marriage to not have gay leaders. They would be pile drived by the media until they gave in or folded their unit. If they folded their unit, they'd get even more bad PR. While some pastors would choose to forge on with a program and include gay leaders, their governing bodies would probably not be too sympathetic to that. 4) Progressive CO's want to be able to have gay leaders if they want. I'm sympathetic to this argument. I serve in a Lutheran CO that would be happy to have homosexual leaders. 5) I object to the whole notions of "Start your own group" and "nobody is for this change." Both are understandable emotional reactions, but they miss the point and motivations of plenty of people who want to change the policy. 6) There aren't any bad guys in this situation. It's a clash of societies changing values. I think we all need to seek to understand one another, and try to make a compromise that suits everyone. Unfortunately, both the zealots of the left and the right will not allow such a thing like local option to really work. Ultimately, the BSA is caught between Conservatives who want to keep things the way they are, and the gay rights movement, which has a variety of motivations. Some would be fine with local option, and others would continue to press to make others accept their lifestyles. 7. The only certainty in this situation is that there is no certainty. I think this is a change that has to be made at some point. I don't think allowing gay people to be leaders is going to change much on the micro/troop level. On the National level, the BSA will lose the South and the Mid West for decades to come. Tough decision all around. I'll be sticking around. Regardless of the decision, I believe in Scouting. Sentinel947

Me first!

Wasn't BP's premise of a patrol a group of friends? While Brownsea had mixed aged patrols, it doesn't follow that all the other patrols forming across England and the world in the 1910's would have been mixed age. More likely than not, it's always been both. Not an either or thing.

Your post is safe. For now. Big Brother is watching.

Welcome to the Forums. I'm unfamiliar with this training mentioned. A few of our venturing advisors should see this soon.

Matt, I like that alot. Thanks

After helping my Troop reestablish the Patrol Method, and the amount of time, sweat and effort that's taken, I could never take on 5 more projects of the same scope. My tickets this fall will be modest in scope. Alot like my Eagle project 4 years ago. As LeCastor said, tickets aren't necessarily huge things. They should be helpful and useful. I really fail to understand why Wood Badge is so controversial here. I guess I'll find out in the fall. Sentinel947

I didn't interpret the article that way.

But he's wearing da beads!

Whats your point KC?

It's important to understand how we study demographics. The number of live births in this country hasn't changed much since the 1950's. Therefore, the "audience" for the BSA program has remained relatively similiar.

We helped our CO build a storage shed. We donated about 800$ and our Scoutmaster provided some construction help.We also do various service projects around the CO thoughout the year. However, $300 could be a huge amount of a 35 boy Troops money. I'd ask the COR to verify that arrangement with the Institutional Head. If the 300$ isn't doable, then your PLC should talk about other ways to contribute to the CO.

My former Scoutmaster who got rid of my Troops patrol method had one knot. (I don't recall which one it was.). Ancedotal evidence is exactly that. Situationally specific. You've established you don't get along with the folks in your district. You apparently live in the district straight out of Dantes 8th circle. With that in mind, your viewpoint on the subject is understandable. When we do judge people as being know it all twats because they wear 4 knots, or judge people as inexperienced losers because they wear none, we miss out on the opportunity to network, and build connections with others. I can say my Troop is in a better place because of the mentors I've made in Council/District Training, but also through this website. That makes a good mix of banna republic generals, and no-knot rebels. In the end what matters is running the best program possible for the Scouts. Knots can indicate experience. Whether or not (haha a pun!) it is experience that actually matters has to be determined by getting to know the person.

As an ASM, please delegate stuff to us. Nobody likes attending meetings and giving up their weekends to do absolutely nothing. COnsidering your experience in Scouting and the outdoors, pass off the paperwork and record keeping to your ASM's and committee and spend time working with the Scouts. Use the skills of your ASM's to benefit the unit. In my unit, I'm the most experienced Scouter, so when it comes to helping the PLC plan their program, and coaching the PL's, the Scoutmaster has delegated that to me. In your Troop that may be different.

I like when people wear their awards and knots as appropriate. It helps me get a feel for where they've been and what they've done. Not that a raging extrovert like myself is afraid to ask, because that's certainly far from the truth. I haven't noticed the good old boys club much. I don't do much outside my unit besides the Eagle Scout Association and now Camp Staff. I imagine the know it all young gun wouldn't be appreciated by the "generals."

Then perhaps those who teach Wood Badge/IOLs/ Scoutmaster Fundamentals need to build the patrol method into the course, make room for it, even if it's not "officially" part of the syllabus.

I'd be recommending to my SPL that they decline an invitation like that. Also, my council doesn't charge Scout Troops for use of the camp, this weekend my Troop camped with the only costs being food costs.

Ugh. Should have known about that. Oh well, I had a good time.

They do absolutely need to create some kind of test out procedure for IOL's and Scoutmaster Fundamentals. While I had fun taking both of those courses, I didn't exactly learn anything from them. That was my 1st year as an Adult volunteer, but my 11th year as a member in the BSA. I ended up helping the IOLS instructor teach some of the Scouting skills to the other course participants.