Sentinel947

See this spreading across college campuses right now. The inability to talk about issues constructively. But as for our Forum and I&P does having that forum add something to this website? Does it help our community here or does it hurt more than it helps? I certainly don't have the answer.

Yup, you've seen right into the big grey zone abyss.

Thanks for that post.

Eagle I'd say we are on the same page. Some other ramblings of mine. The common error I see is adults who zig when they should zag, and zag when they should zig. What does that mean? SM's like to step in to avert disasters, but youth are pretty clever and can handle winging decisions in the moment. (And our identification of what a disaster is is too generous.) In my own unit, adults step in too much. Yet many SM's don't spend time outside the meeting help their youth leaders prepare plans for the meetings and outings. "We are a boy led troop they say." They've zigged when they should zag. Planning is not the strong suit of most American teenage boys. This doesn't mean we do the planning for them, and have them execute, but a good SM helps his Scouts plan their events by asking questions, prodding them when they get stuck, and challenging them when necessary. He ensures a plan is made, not that it's the most fabulous best thing ever, because it won't be if the Scouts are doing it themselves. When the actual execution of that event takes place, short of safety issues, the SM should have little reason to be involved, his scouts are prepared and they are the leaders. I spend very little time actively involved in the meetings or outings, but my primary activity is chatting with scouts (especially the ones in POR's) on the sidelines after a meeting, after a campfire, or before lights out hearing their thoughts. "Train em, Trust em, let them lead" Sentinel947

But whenever any time any kind of civility is enforced, the free speech foul is called on us. I know the few times I've deleted or modified offensive comments in I&P I was basically called the Scouting gestapo or thought police. I have no idea how to deal with that sub-forum. John

It's always worth playing with the structure of things. I think this is a good process. Also, I believe adults have a role to play in this, I don't think you or another leader has overstepped (​based on what you've told us.) But I will reiterate, scouts go to what patrol they want to be in. Roughly five years ago our SPL and PLC tried to experiment with a variety of methods to make more balanced patrols. Despite the adults reservation (I was just finishing up my time as a youth) they allowed us to give it a try. It didn't work for us, it may work for you all. The scouts just informally hung out in their natural patrols. Your PLC has made the decision, and your job as an adult is to help them learn to manage and execute their decisions. ​Best of luck, and feed us regular updates, I'm really curious to see how your scouts do with something mine couldn't make work. ​Sentinel947

Not looking to end the discussion, but Eagle94-1, be sure to update us regularly on how things are going, if issues ya'll were having are changed by this adjustment. ​Sentinel947

The boys tried it so I'm willing to give my benefit of the doubt. I will say: My troop has tried this exact method, the Scouts will congregate into their natural patrols, unless quick steps are made to build patrol identies. My Troop stopped battling the natural patrol dynamic and let them form their own patrols, free for all. It's worked so far and done alot to eliminate the issues we used to have regarded patrol membership. In short, Scouts will form into their preferred patrols naturally, your PLC can either battle this process or facilitate it. Clearly if what you did before wasn't working, your Scouts will not build their own patrols based on that, but I'm not sold on trying to build balanced patrols. I haven't seen that work yet. The scouts tend to abandon their assigned patrols and form into their usual gangs, (or as I've said, their natural patrols.)

@cyclops: Thanks for your contributions on the forums. ​You have already found that deleting your account is impossible. (At least as far as I know). Moderators have no way of removing profiles other than banning them, which is not appropriate in this situation. I don't know what happened, but hopefully one day in the future you will return. ​Sentinel947

Yea, I think an situation autopsy needs to be performed before you make a decision about your involvement going forward. When volunteers quit suddenly, the real losers are the Scouts. If your scouts (or theirs) caused the screw up, it's a learning opportunity, a coaching opportunity. If the other chapter, or one of your chapter advisers caused it, I'd be creating another learning opportunity, which is, don't waste my time.

Isn't a signature an expression of consent and carrying out of a function? IE: Parent putting signature on a permission slip means they have granted permission. When I put my signature on a check and give it to the bank, I'm approving the transaction. Maybe I'm missing something.

What happened?

I'll buy that. My Troop has exactly one regular volunteer under 35 years old, and it's me. Can't say if I'm more or less self absorbed than anybody else. I'm not the introspective type.

Krampus: So are these younger parents millennials? or Gen X? I don't think this is going to get better over time... lol. I don't know if many Millennials can have scout aged kids yet. Most of our current Scouts are born post 2000, and are therefore a different generation that nobody talks about. Then again, I think all this generational stuff is hogwash... so.... To all: (So nobody in particular) Is this really a generational thing? Or a cultural thing? More and more leaders involved in Scouting have no prior Scouting experience. My Troop Has 8 ASM/SM's. Half of us had Scouting experience as youth, which I feel like is abnormally high. Maybe beyond the selfishness, there's a sense of "I was never a Scout, so I can't possibly help." I think people are smart to avoid volunteer roles that aren't defined to them. (I know my Troop struggles to define role responsibilities). ​Back to the OP, such a course seems like a waste of time. I know the communicating across generations module at Wood Badge was. Sentinel947

And you have to hold your former Scout, now volunteers hands? Do you think you babysit them any more than older volunteers?

I'm not aware of NYLT beads either.

Are you talking cubs? Does anybody's boy scout unit have parent volunteers under 30? All my Troops parents are boomers or Gen xers. (For whatever the labels are worth.)

I'm the resident millennial here at the ripe old age of 22. I don't put too much stock in generations and ages. People are unique, as are their situations in life. I agree with CalicoPenn that it's society based, not necessarily "generation" based. (Which generations is just some journalist/marketing crutch.) Civic Engagement and Volunteerism is at all time low. The media has poisoned societies trust in our government, corporations and institutions. Cynics have the megaphone. Consumerism and self interest have become a central value for some people. ​Unfortunately I haven't spent time in the Cub Scouting program since I was a cub. So I have next to no advice on how to better recruit cub scout leaders except for, 1) Get to know the parents. 2) Learn about their backgrounds and personalities 3) Clearly define the role you want them to play 4) Personally invite and encourage them to take the role. ​5) Provide support if they take the job.

In short, yes. That's two different roles with a respectable time commitment involved.

What benefits does co ed scouting bring to both boys and girls? ​What negatives? ​On the other side: What benefits does single sex programs (Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts) have for both boys and girls? ​What negatives?

I'd say every year or every other is probably sufficient. But no formal training course can replace the role of a mentor.

I teach it. It takes up a pretty sizable chunk of the course when I teach SM specific. It's mentioned in the syllabus. That gives me full license to expand it's prominence in my course. None of the powers that be have objected so far.

That's how my town is.

I agree, ask your son if he wants to go, have him invite his friends. Not a Scouting activity.

Mediocrity?