Sentinel947

It does indeed for me. If Kosnoff is reading here, who knows what other parties are watching? It's also highly interesting. He's quoting random, anonymous strangers off a web forum. It's possible that any of us do not know what we claim to know, or aren't who we claim to be. Not exactly trustworthy sources.

Changing membership policies, sponsor orgs pulling out, rising fees, bad press due to sexual abuse, general decline in civic involvement, then COVID.

@Eagledad it's conjecture, but it's likely correct given that sexual assault and rape is statistically underreported, particularly in males. It's also possible that some of these claims are fake. Both things can exist simultaneously.

I agree with @CynicalScouter. @MrjeffWhat's the point of this thread or your post? You seem frustrated, so I hope your post gives you some release and satisfaction. Nobody here is trying to force their opinion on you, but if you make public statements there are plenty of people ready and willing to argue. Personally I've been on this forum to learn from experienced Scouters on how to execute the program, stay up to date on changes, work through issues and celebrate success. Over time I've learned some stuff that I hope might help others. You've made several mentions of ending your involvement in Scouts. Even if you don't like decisions the BSA has made, I hope you and your youth enjoyed Scouting together and you look back on it as rewarding and worthwhile. Hopefully you'll be on to contribute to other organizations you feel more aligned with.

And the insurance companies are probably concerned they are contributing money to the pot for "bogus" claims. Yea, those claims might get vetted out, but the insurance companies want to pay as little as possible.

I've said this before, but it's relevant. That's what makes No One on One Contact so important. While adults can be friendly, courteous and kind with youth, there's no justifiable reason for an adult to be alone with a youth that isn't their child. I feel like I have strong relationships with my Scouts, that they know me and I get to know them, but these aren't secret or private interactions. They take place in view of/ including other adults/youth, whether in person or virtually.

I misread, a consistent issue for me. It's not outlandish to suggest this isn't the first time this particular individual may have done this sort of thing, but no evidence provided by the article.

There are no words that can adequately capture the sexual abuse of children. It's an unspeakable crime, and I respect you and the other survivors who have posted here for coming here and speaking. Even over the internet, it puts real people behind the statistics. There's also nothing I can really say that will make the situation better, you're all in a waiting game, I'll just try not to be obnoxious company. If what's detailed is accurate, there better be a deep investigation. As @Eagle94-A1pointed out, this guy has apparently been doing this elsewhere. Who else and in what ways has he victimized others? Has he done this at other Scout camps? At Church? At work? Community centers? It triggers a bunch of questions for the BSA. Were the restrooms single occupant, or is it a multi occupant showerhouse? Were males and females mixing? Were youth and adults mixing? Was he registered? Background checked? Had he been reported for odd behavior before? Looks like 4 separate female youth and 1 male youth were recorded changing or showering, along with a female adult. Then the separate 3 male youth involved in some sort of sexual activity among themselves, or with the accused setting up the cameras? He was identified by the camera footage, so did he assault any of the youth involved?

The accused could have set the cameras up during a mealtime when everybody was in their campsites or at the dining hall, or in the middle of the night, where the chances for detection would be low. The article seems to have moved here, and I'm not sure I'm finding the exact version online. There were details about them finding sexual pornography, including involving the perpetrator, but those details aren't showing on the articles I'm finding now. What the earlier articles didn't make clear was whether the sexual activity was recorded at the camp, or whether it was found on the device. Harder to say now, since I can't find that language on the articles now. Either way, it's bad. I hope the youth weren't engaging in sexual activities at camp. Even more so I hope the accused wasn't sexually assaulting youth at camp.

I'm confused. The article states there were recordings of sexual acts, pornography. Of others and some involving the accused. Were those found on the devices, were they actually recorded at camp?

My local camp also had staffing issues.

I've been involved in Boy Scouts/ Scouts BSA since 2005. I've never heard the second verse of Scout Vespers... I didn't even know it had a second verse. I learned something today.

That was the draw that kept me engaged in my Troop as an older Scout. Being responsible for the Troop, it's activities and it's members. It was a challenge, and I enjoyed the opportunity to try to make things better for myself and the other Scouts.

My Answer to him is the same as the "I need Eagle for my College Application." The journey each Scout takes to earn Eagle is far more important than holding the award. If he decides it's not meaningful to him, he shouldn't bother, but that should be because he's prioritizing something else in life more meaningful, not because other people are taking shortcuts. Will he drop out of high school or college when he finds out classmates are cheating on quite literally every assignment? It doesn't matter what those people are doing.

For sure. My council has 4 camps on 2 properties. All are used regularly and maintained. That's probably not the norm for most councils.

Depends on the Council, which is somewhat related to Council management success or failure as well as broader economic and social trends.

The BSA would've been in it's current position regardless of what it did regarding membership policies. The bill for sexual abuse was going to come due regardless.

That was me as a Scout. Very aggressive, authoritarian leadership. That's what I'd seen modelled in sports, band and in school. My Scout leaders didn't really correct me, because I got stuff done. I'd like to think I had the Troop and the Scouts best interests at heart, but my methods were still toxic. My friends joked that I put the "dick" in dictator. When I was 15, I attended NYLT, and it opened my eyes to the principle of Servant Leadership. That personal experience is what has made me such a strong supporter of NYLT. Like any BSA training, it's not a perfect syllabus, and the people who implement and conduct the training aren't perfect either, but it had a huge impact on who I've become. There can always be a gap between design and common outcome. As this forum has harped on, the BSA doesn't do a particularly good job teaching how things are supposed to be done, and much of how Scout units operate is down to local unit historical practices. I don't agree that Scouting is designed to teach top down leadership. When I think of Scouting leadership, I think of the Scouts electing patrol leaders to serve the interests of the patrol, and the SPL as a facilitator to help the Patrol leaders come to a consensus. I'm not sure how you define top down, but if you consider the patrol method top down, what organizations and institutions in American life aren't top down? I'm curious what the percentage of BSA pros were Scouts as youth, or BSA volunteers as adults. Given the long hours and terrible pay for BSA pros, I imagine talented leaders would look elsewhere for employment, since leadership ability is a very valuable set of soft skills. Regardless, the conduct of many pros and volunteers in their day to day interactions or historically (hopefully not ongoing) abuse cases does lend a thick layer of hypocrisy to the claiming of the mantle of leadership.

The only options going forward are for Troops to charter with the council and get the facility use agreement, or the CO's need to bring the unit completely under CO control and oversight. That would likely entail closing membership of the unit to only individuals who are members of the CO. That would kill most troops in my local area, since even the Catholic ones take on non church members as Troop members. CO's would be foolish to continue chartering Troops and simply rubberstamping the paperwork as they have done previously.

Not sure, but it's also basic logic. "You didn't grant or deny permission to these 10 other people, but now you deny me from doing it?"

Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, when you consider that most Scouting takes place on the local level. My council is in states that have not extended the SOL. There does not seem to be plans to sell either of our camps, but we'll see what happens.

I think we all agree that the informal leadership training that Scouting provides is valuable, it's also hard to quantify, and it's hard to sell as marketing to parents. There are numerous opportunities for adults to model good leadership practices to Senior Scouts, but these are less of formal instruction, and more of a mentorship/partnership. As Scouts seek to solve their own issues and confront their own challenges, there are opportunities for that informal style of teaching leadership. I have seem some great outcomes in myself and my Scouts from NYLT, but that alone is not sufficient to market Scouts BSA as a "Leadership" program. Much of it's value does not derive from the instruction, but from the activities and time spent in a real functional patrol, which is sorely lacking in many Troops. There's also a simple fact: not everyone can be, or should be leaders. There is absolutely nothing wrong with folks being contributors to the team. To say that every Scout who comes through the program should develop as a leader is presupposing that every Scout wants to be, and should be developing as a leader.

Why would families put their kids in Scouts during COVID? Pay all those fees for zoom scouting? As things reopen some folks will return, some won't.

Those that joined the forum to track the news, share their perspective as abuse survivors: Thank you I've learned a lot from your posts , please keep coming around, sadly this still isn't over, and for you all, it never truly will be. It makes me sad that an organization that has so profoundly shaped my life for the better has had such the opposite effect for so many, and it gives me a great burden to carry as a leader today, to do the best possible to make sure that the youth entrusted to me are safe from harm. It's really hard to say. For an example of a highly public case right now, UoM's Dr. Anderson may have assaulted up to 100 victims of various ages. Some of the sexual predators roaming around in Scouting may have similar counts. The carnage of these evil people, and the cowards who allowed them to operate, will never be truly and completely known.

Second for CalTopo