Sentinel947

@@Col. Flagg hit my thoughts. A lot of folks come here to vent and get advice. That tends to be pessimistic and messy at times. If I make a thread "Your biggest Scouting win/success story of 2016/2017" the tone will be much brighter than usual. I think I'm going to.. I could use the pick me up.

Wow! I appreciate the support from all of you! It isn't something I've entirely ruled out, and I'm sure I'm going to continue to waffle back and forth on it for a while. The longer the current SM goes waiting for a replacement the more likely I am to step in and offer to take it on. I think I'm experiencing the self doubt most people have before taking on a commitment of that magnitude.

Yup. Sounds very arrogant, but my troop has changed alot because I was able to bring the SM and Committee around to what I thought we needed to offer to our Scouts. We went from a troop method troop to a patrol method troop in about 4 years. It was a vision I was able to sell to to the SM and the other ASMs. I pitched it to the committee and got their buy in. It worked well because I had credibility with the Scouts a parent never can. The SM had credibility with the parents I can't build at this point. There was a point where I was quasi Scoutmaster during transition points. I knew what the end game looked like, and the SM trusted me to help the Scouts lead us there. I don't see myself being able to pull this off going forward. I was at a unique place where the SM, ASMs and Committee all knew me well. I was a Scout when their sons joined the Troop. I took my ASM training with them. I haven't made up my mind on anything. I'm not being pushed out. Its just weighing my options, whats best for the troop and how much I have left in the tank. The current SM and I have talked about me taking over from him, but I'm not sold on the idea and I'm not certain he is either. The last four years I've lived and breathed Scouting and the idea of going and refighting those same battles with a new team of adults that I don't have the same connections to makes me tired just thinking about it. Easier just to slow fade into the background when the SM steps down and things become a circus.

The Troop isn't. I am. After 12 years in the troop I'm not sure I want to grow through the growing pains of a 4th Scoutmaster. Scoutmaster is something I know I am capable of, but I worry that would hurt the Troop. Modern parents wouldn't want their sons in the care of a 25 year old. When I was a crew advisor for my hands off advisor style was constantly questioned or subverted by other adults in the crew. I was the only adult on that trip with a lick of prior backpacking experience. I can't imagine fighting those battles week after week, month after month if I became Scoutmaster. I'm happy to be the right hand man to the current SM, but SM for me is not the right gig for them or for me.

Col Flagg: very cheery. It depends on the region of the UK. Paying those taxes would be my culture shock. I think I'll be active with the troop for another year or two, but I doubt I'd stay beyond that. 7 years without any kids in the troop is a respectable run. Young adults aren't generally welcomed or encouraged to be troop volunteers. With all the other stuff going on in a young adults life, the only position they can have in a troop is ASM. That comes with a good healthy dose of training requirements. Its not the other unit leaders, they all seem to genuinely think its good that I'm volunteering. The pro scouters love volunteers of my age group. Its more the newer parents and people outside of scouting that give me weird looks or even outright grief about my involvement. With all the sex abuse scandals, thats always going to be what many Americans think.

I live in the US. Ohio. The current adults and I are tight knit. I was a Scout when our current Scoutmasters son joined the troop. But that was 7 years ago. Its rare in the US to have young single troop volunteers. Dating, college, working, and the stigma have something to do with it. It mostly comes from new parents or folks outside of scouting. Plenty of young adults volunteering at the district and council level in my council. That's probably where I'll focus most scouting volunteering in the future.

Totally. I wasn't refering to that. More so the single adult male stigma as I get older.

I see myself only having a few more years at the Troop level volunteering before the awkward kicks in. When I aged out, nobody questioned my intentions to stay involved and become an ASM. Now as a single 23 year old, with a newer generation of parents coming in and taking up adult leadership roles I doubt I'll be as welcomed.

Not sure about big fish in a little pond. As two of my senior Scouts are leading the school musical. My troop has varsity athletes and kids who would never be caught dead on an athletic field. We have former Scouts who are working for Microsoft, and others who are unemployed living in mom and dads house. Our Scouts are a microcosm of the community they live in. Some will be gifted leaders, and others will not be. That's life.

I'm doing the Smokies section of the AT in June!

I agree with SSScout

I object to the toilet humor restriction. One of my favorite skits has a poop joke. Half of a teenage boys repetoir of jokes involves toilet humor.

@@TAHAWK and @@David CO I'm not sure what the problem is here.

It's very rough, but it's manageable. Back in 2009 my troop had maybe 50 scouts. By 2013 it was up to 80. We are floating around 70 We didn't change much in our program in that time period, although I will say we were very much a "troop method" troop, but other Troops were having stability issues (Tin God Scoutmasters, charter orgs pulling the rugs out from underneath troops). The key is the patrol method. When the boys are in smaller semi autonomous groups, they are easier for themselves to organize and adults to supervise. Getting as big as we did made the sales pitch for the patrol method fairly easy. The biggest issue is camping locations. There are plenty of places where a troop of 50+ cannot always go without sucking up a strong portion of the campground. Even with the patrol method. Equipment and transportation logistics can be challenging with that quick of growth. Like your Troop, we don't turn Scouts away, we don't heavily recruit, we don't bash other troops. But we want as many youth to get a scouting experience as possible, and if they want it to be with us, then we are going to do our best to make that happen. Best of luck! Sentinel947

We do this for the boys. How much further away is the other camp? Frankly the idea of a committee vetoing a trip idea from the boys that is not excessively far or excessively expensive is a red flag to me. My troop sometimes drives three hours one way for a weekend trip. Your mileage may vary. Sentinel947

Poor Chiefs.

What these troops call themselves is irrelevant. I can micromanage a mixed age patrol, and it ceases to be a patrol when I do so. The same is true of NSP's. Webelos 3, Troop method may be more apt discriptions for those troops. Just because troops mess up mixed age patrols and lose older Scouts interest, or mess up NSPs and have adults "helping" doesn't mean it cannot be done properly by another troop IMO. Adults leading patrols is not part of the patrol method. Youth leadership is an essential ingredient of the patrol method. To have a group of boys led by an adult and calling it a patrol is not the patrol method. To have patrols on paper but do everything by troop is not the patrol method. If you are calling what my troop does a den, then we will have to agree to disagree. I believe how my troop operates is meeting the essential mechanics of the patrol method. Scouts are with their friends, they make their own decisions independent of adults. It works for us, we've never tried mixing new Scouts into older patrols. After that age mixed patrols is our norm. Nobody has ever asked in the 12 years I've been in the troop to have new scouts in their patrols or had new scouts ask to be in older boy patrols. So its working for us, no point changing it. Sentinel947.

Other moral of the story. Play a weak schedule in a weak division and get rewarded with 7 championship appearences. The Pats are good, but they have benefited from weak competition in the AFC. Falcons played a much harder schedule. Played stronger teams in the playoffs and just ran out of gas.

This stuff comes down to what works for your Troop and your boys, with a healthy level of Troop traditions thrown in. At the end of the day, if your Scouts are having fun, advancing, leading the troop, it doesn't matter what type of patrol structure you use. (So long as you use one.) My troop uses New Scout Patrols. We always have enough cross overs for two patrols worth of Scouts. We have a handful of Troop guides to work with the new scouts at meetings and outings to help them practice the skills they will need for the outing and to review requirements with them. Normally after Summer camp the new scout patrol(s) elect a Patrol leader(s) and are at a basic level of camping proficiency. They can set up their own tents, pack their own gear, plan their own menus and cook their own food.The Troop Guides will stay with them to the end of the year, but back up into a supporting and correcting role vs a teaching role. My Troop has heavily drunk the Woodbadge/NYLT cool aid so we buy into the EDGE method quite a bit. After the first year the new Scouts generally spread out into other patrols, but they sometimes stay as a patrol. There is a definitely a weird transition period for our second year scouts when the training wheels of the guides comes off. I am the ASM responsible for New Scouts and Troop Guides. We have an ASPL who trains the Troop Guides in Jan-Feb to help them lay out some loose plans and brush up on their skills. At the ASPL's invitation I may step in and work with the Guides during the prep period. (It hasn't happened yet this year! In March we get our new Scouts. I've been at the game of Scouting long enough to not step in and take control from our Troop Guides, and I block any other well meaning adults from doing so. I observe how things are going and help the Guides troubleshoot anything the ASPL can't help them figure out. It works for us. It may or may not work for you. If what you are doing is broken, consider making changes. Consult your boys. If it's not broken, and your boys seem happy with it, don't fix what isn't broken. Fun tidbit: I myself was a Troop guide for this Troop in 2010. 8 of my 20 new Scouts from 2010 have earned their Eagle in 2016-2017. It's been very meaningful for me to be with them the whole way, and I'm not looking forward to Troop life without them. I'd love to say it was my wonderful guiding skills or ASM mentorship, but realistically they are a gang of boys the same age who are all close friends. (Sounds like the BP's patrol doesn't it?) We kept them together, gave them a good program. They stuck together and really gave our Troop some fine leadership and executed a wonderful culture change back to the patrol method. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947 It works for us. It may or may not work for you.

As a Catholic Scouter, this encourages me to continue my involvement with Scouting.

It has been awfully quiet on that front hasn't it?

Putting on moderator hat. This is the most civil and polite discussion of this topic I've seen.

This has been my understanding on it as well. I know exactly what my COs wishes are.

I'm not sure how this decision stops the BSA from meeting your needs. Perhaps you can explain it to Fred. The quips are witty, but they don't help anybody understand your perspective.

My decision really has very little to do with the change. I joined my troop as a youth in 2005. I became an ASM in 2011. Its 2017. I'm ready to change things up. I'd volunteer more on the district or council level. Its less a time committment. I'm conflicted about the decision. I'm concerned it will have effects on how the program is carried out. Not because of the Transgendered kids, but the rules lawyers and other risk adverse bean counters put in place. In an ideal world, this would be it and troops would be allowed to control their units membership, but I don't think the culture warrirors are finished with us just yet. I don't have kids, so my religious/political beliefs about transgenderism is irrelevant. I can serve transgender youth the same as any other kid. In short, I'm still onboard, but I'm tired and not filled with optimism for the future. This change will make things harder for my troop in a conservative town. I don't expect the liberal culture warriors to stop pushing nor jump into Scouting feet first. I believe in Scouting, my troop, this forum. Perhaps this will blow over and things will be fine.