SemperParatus

"I think if any meeting happens it should be one with me, my husband, and son, and see if any one agrees that missteps happened on both sides before they loose a good scout and he looses having a good experience with scouting." I agree that the meeting should be between the parents, scouts and SM. Heck, invite the Committee Chair too. While we would all like to think that a 14 year old boy should learn to work thru such problems on his own, it seems clear that your son will need your help with this. A boy is no match for an adult in authority when it comes to 'who said and did what'. You have a legitimate concern about the degree of discipline being shown your son and the SM needs to answer for the actions he may be planning to take. I would not, however, attempt to argue about who is to blame and how much needs to be shared by others. Your position is simple. Your son was being harassed. In a moment of frustration, his tongue slipped. He has since gotten a stern talking to by the ASM, been continuously threatened with removal from camp, and has apologized. What more does the SM intend to do?

In my opinion, a SM or ASM should never suspend a scout. Suspension is a very serious action to be taken. I would suspect that most boys suspended from a troop for some period of time never go back (some do, but most don't). So a suspension might as well be an invitation to a 'voluntary' expulsion. This should not be left to one or a few people. Such harsh disciplinary measures are best left to the Troop Committee. The SM can recommend such action be taken to the Committee, but the Committee is free to decide for themselves. I doubt you will find any official word from the BSA on how to proceed, so each unit must decide how to handle these issues itself. I agree with the others...a one-time use of the f-word in the heat of frustration is not grounds for a suspension.

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packwife, Your son has already received a stern 'talking to', been subjected to continual threats of his removal from camp, and has apologized for his inappropriate language. Now, he is left to linger for a month to await further disciplinary action. I think he has suffered enough for his poor choice of words. These issues need and should be addressed immediately when they occur. That has happened. Sitting down to rehash it a month later will serve no purpose other than to continue to punish your son. I would call the SM and ask him nicely what specifically he thinks will be accomplished at this sit-down next month, that has not already been done.

"Uh...what color blazes were we following again?"

I am reminded of Martin Niemoller's poem... When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I did not speak out; I was not a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out. **** Failing to hold each other accountable will inevitably require an accounting.

Alvin...Alvin...ALVIN!!! Eagle309, While I am sure your motives are sincere in helping this boy develop his 'character', I am afraid that getting someone to 'tell the truth' on demand when they do not want to and it is not in their nature is nearly impossible without resorting to polygraph machines, torture and the like. Truth-telling and taking personal responsibility is a trait developed over years and years of decisions. I suspect the only possible way to get the truth out of him this around is to eliminate any threat of punishment. Or, you turn this into an inquisition with accusers brought forward, testimonies, etc. In my opinion, neither of these alternatives are acceptable. I would go the soft road, having a discussion with him to share how disappointed you are in the fact that a scout would intentionally damage camp property and hide the fact and how you expect more from members of the troop. Don't accuse or blame, but play the sad scoutmaster that expects so much from his boys and feel let down. Maybe he'll feel sorry for you and fess up. Maybe not.

Presentation...its all about presentation. Rather than a fine for untrained leaders, how about offering a discount for trained ones. BSA could set the Adult Application fee at $30, with a training discount of 75% for all those with their training certificates/cards in hand. Units could use the rechartering savings to pay for training fees and still be ahead of the game, giving them an incentive to promote more trained leadership. Fines are a negative, discounts are a positive.

Heavenly Father, We ask for your loving and healing touch upon our sister, Jamie Walsh and her family. Give her the strength and courage to do battle against this illness and the resting comfort of your love during this time of trial. While a miracle is what we, in all our human feebleness, most desire for Jamie, we know that your ways are veiled in mystery and in all things, your goodness and loving kindness will be revealed to us. Grant upon those that are closest and most dear to Jamie, the power to show their unending love and support for her, and may the peace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, come to rest over and dwell in the Walsh household. Amen.

My suggestions... If you have more than 15 scouts...get a program designed to keep track of money (Quicken, Quickbooks, TroopLedger, etc). It will save you a lot of time and aggravation. If you have more than 40 scouts...stay away from scout accounts (except for very limited purposes, i.e. - summer camp, high adventure trip). It will save you a lot of time and aggravation.

Don't forget Maryland's Camp Rodney...for one of the best aquatics programs (Chesapeake Bay) around. Of course, its probably filled up for 2007 by now. http://camping.delmarvacouncil.org/High%20Adventure%20Sailing%202006.pdf http://camping.delmarvacouncil.org/RodneySummerCamp.htm (This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Canoe guys cut it out oar so help me...brace yourself for others booming in with moor lines.

"There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things." ~ Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince (1532) I would tread lightly for a few months, get to know folks and let them get to know you, serve together, enjoy the scouting experience together, share stories and life, then reconsider how important uniform pants really are to you.

"Do any of you make efforts to educate your scouts on global issues during meetings?" No. Scouting should be a nice retreat from 'issues'. They get enough of that thrown at them from school and the media.

"I then informed my other leaders and turned it over to the asst. comm. chair, who promptly had a small meeting, Stated that he would take away my son's Totin' Chip (understandably) then he asked that either his mother come and pick him up or I remove him from camp, which I did and that both boys would have to appear before the troop committee. The other boy was not asked to leave camp, since they decided that all he did was a bit of bullying...I am at a loss as to how to proceed next." Sounds like its been handled by the committee and there is no 'proceed next' to be done, at least officially. I would suggest your having some nice father-son conversations with your boy to help him understand his actions and possible ways to control his anger, annoying behavior, etc. This is needed not just for scouting, but to benefit him as he matures into a man. Likewise, after some time passes, you may want to consider some bully-proof training for your entire troop. All boys know bullys, most do not know how to deal with them. The bully's in your midst may find that they need to change as well. Good luck.

We have quarterly Scoutmaster Staff meetings to review program, set directions, inform and mentor new SAs, discuss initiatives, and identify individual scouts that may need more personal attention and motivation (i.e., lagging advancement, reduced attendance, personal issues, etc.)

Your post will surely ruffle some feathers. Ducks? I'm down with that.

Thanks. That's a good minute too.

Sounds like a head-case...SM should reassign him to tracking tour permits.

Good story. I am sure scout and mom will be blessed for giving scouting a third chance. I know you won't let them down. Congratulations.

That's funny

Once an adult leader (what's his position?) starts referring to scouts as 'punks', it is time for a long sabbatical and retooling. Ask him to find a nice big fishing lake to get lost on for the next few months. He is way too wrapped up in getting respect he thinks he deserves, rather than showing respect to others.

I have always been involved with large units. Many times I wished they were much smaller. Having no experience in this matter, I wholeheartedly agree with Jeffrey H that "A small Pack of less than 10 boys will work just fine if it has enthusiatic leaders and volunteers that provide a quality program of fun meetings and outdoor events."

Laure, Just a note of caution. Scout accounts can be a good thing, we did them for the first five years of our troop's existence. However, as we grew they started to pose quite a record keeping burden on our troop treasurer (a CPA - using Quickbooks for troop records) - securing the information, posting it, printing account balances, following up on negative balance collections, etc. We recently went off the scout account method and everyone (boys and adults) seems to prefer the simplicity of COD. We still do a very limited form of scout account accumulation for summer camp funds.

Couple of reasons I suppose... 1. There are potential scout recruits affiliated with the new CO (e.g., church members) that either do not know about the other units in the area or for one reason or another are adverse to joining the other units. 2. Offers some level of protection against a CO pulling the plug on a unit, leaving boys high and dry until a new CO can be identified. 3. One of the simplest ways to increase membership is to increase units. New units, while causing some shuffling of the deck in an area, does produce new members that have not been involved in scouting before. 4. There are many dynamics involved in determining whether a particular 'market is full', such as the overall community growth rate, percentage of scout age children involved in scouting, the quality of current programs, availability of committed leaders, etc. It may very well be that a small community can only support one local unit, while in larger, growing areas more units can mean more choices and more opportunities for more boys.