seabear

I must agree with Madkins007, We been hiding scouting for a very long time now; How offen do you see an article on Scouting, and not the ALCU or something as such, but scouts in action, doing a good deed, How many billboards are up in your council dealing with Scouts? We do not market scouting well for todays youth. The old saying "Out of sight ,Out of Mind" I believe to some extent that Scouting has not kept up to the times; what can be done by a group of boys outside of scouting compare to what the scouts can do: extreme sports, jet skis, etc...I believe that some have made scouting an advancement program; merit badges, rank without structure ,or challenge, that the basic skills have been place aside. Yet there are units whom are doing an outstanding program, an their membership has no decline, They vote with their feet.

BW "Not only that but what harm could be done if every scout asked at least one other person to join?" None what so ever, but is this a needed requirement for advancement to First Class? Why is this being added to the First Class requirements? To what purpose is this requirement being used in the scouting program? Yes ,SEA SCOUTS do have a requirement for Ordinary, under Active Membership 5: Recruit a new member for your ship and follow through until the new member is registered and formally admitted.( This requirement may be waived by the ship committee if additional membership is not possible at the time the Sea Scout applies). What next for Star you must recruit two new scouts, for Life you must do a talk for FOS to your community..... Will talking be it , or will the scout need to bring in body to a patrol meeting or troop meeting?

Unfortunately not every scout will have the opportunities to attend Philmont or a National Jamboree ,let alone a World Jamboree; but these experiences are there ,along with other High Adventure Bases and activities. How about serving on staff at scout camp oversea, or traveling to a foreign country. The local scouting experience is just as important; as the basic program of the patrol, starts at unit level. To be able to expand the program, to be able to offer new experiences, memories and activities away from the unit to be able to reach out to other units at district and council levels, then to be able to reach farther out to other councils and regions; and even farther to other scouting organizations, the cultural exchange, the friends,memories,challenging,fun, educational are unbelievable. For a scout whom only wildlife he see is a squirrel or rabbit, seeing a grizzly or a moose has something to say, just as seeing the ocean for the first time, how can you explain. It is true that you can see more with your eyes open in your own back yard than traveling around the world with them closes, but wow if they where open! Yes the skills start at home, but why stop there

First I would contact the parish, if it is a parish school ( the Priest control everything), if it is a diocese school than contact them ; asking permission first.contact the the Religious Education Director, and the School Principal.Scouting is part of the Youth Ministry , . Contact the Catholic Committee on Scouting at your council, they have the contacts and knowledge needed.( there are several patches which that could be used to help recruitment of scouts) use the religious emblems program.Put your notice in the Parish Bulletin, offer donuts and coffee after mass with a display on scouting. There are several lay groups, as the Knights of Columbus, Catholic War Vets, Ancient Order of Hibernians, that do support youth groups. The Archdiocesse of Seattle website: seattlearch.org , I'm not sure if this number is still current (206)382-4595 . Talk to the Altar Servers director/or staff more useful for boy scouts , but can help. I would contact the Troops in the area to see what contacts they have with the school. Maybe you both could put on a program for a Saturday . What you have stated in inthe post is great. Best of Luck "Dia Beannacht"

I used to be a Bear. a good ole bear, too! 'The BEAR' Known for the strenght, pure force, a great spirit, as a disciplinarian, Protector of Children, & of the community. Protector against the Unknown. Also note for their hunger of all other critters in the woods. Lets not forget SEABADGE

Taking from your post, you or the District have been out of the schools for four(4) years now. At the time (four years ago ) where was your DE, where there talks between DE and the School's Superintendent, this must have affected the whole District Cub program,and what have been taking place for the last four years in recruitment of cubs? We had something very similar almost happen here in our District; A person complained about assemblies where BSA came in to recruit. Our district join ranks along with our DE, there where talks to the Board of Education, letters sent in support, the Council was involved to some extinct. Luckly the scouts where allowed to continue to recruit inthe schools and have assemblies. Even so, recruitment should not just depend on an assembly or flyers in school. I believe that you could be a little to late to try to change the School Board minds, but you can always try. As for the PTA, your reasoning ;I would highly suggest that this is not the right course. If anything ,I would try to gain their(PTA) support could be done several ways as to have the parents of the scouts become members of the PTA and if they are already build your base of support with them. I would uses the Cubs, in volunteering to plant flowers around the school, or pick up trash, service projects, etc... I would have the cubs raise and lower the flags if possible , have them wear their uniforms the day of their den meetings to school, If you can get permission to set-up a display case in the school( pinewood derby cars etc... are great)have flyers past out about a meeting off school property where your pack meets, etc... Awhile back we had a post cardwhich could be sent to the Cubs hero's great way to send to the teachers, etc... The other side of the coin...use the resources in your commuity, flyers on pizza boxes, do a bike rodeo, fishing derby, Bowling night etc... Get out let them see cubs in action , Scout Sunday, etc... Try the local radio stations to anounce your events, some colleges have radio and tv stations which they must give free time to the community groups ( do a spot with them "Cubs in Action" ) The BSA National has free billboards . It seems as many units depends on only one or two methods of recruitment, many Boy Scout units only rely on the packs to fill their ranks, get your Troop involve with help. Setting up a camp off school land , but within sight of scouting activities. Local malls, could be used. Now with the concern of needs for the survivors of Katrina; food drives clothing, tools, building supplies etc... could be done with the scouts in your area, When people see what scouting is about, 99% of the time they will support you. Best of Luck,

CNYScouter, After reading your last reply, wow.. Lets look at the whole picture. 1) It seems as your son is having second thoughts on scouting,"He is not interested in going camping or outings anymore and has asked me to help him make Eagle as fast" Why are you involved in scouting, is it for your son? or for yourself? or both? If your son drops out will you follow? 2)" What to do? Drop out? Shut up and except the poor programs Im finding? Put a huge effort into trying to start a unit that Im not sure if I will have any support for? " "am also curious about going about doing this when starting a new unit" " interest in a Venturing Crew but since we have no active Crews in our District, I will have to try to start one " Is this the answer? It could be! Is there interest with your sons lads? What do you know of the venturing program? Do you belong to any group as the AL, VFW, KC,Lions Club ,etc...and if so are they interested in becoming a Charter Organization and you the COR ? 3) Have you try the patrol method within your own troop? Take a patrol offer them , their freedom to act as a patrol, help them out , where there is a need, as for trasportation, etc... offer subjestions on what they could do as a patrol: how about deep sea fishing, then a clam bake to end summer, cross-country sking, open their minds . Supply them with the resources on how to be and act using the patrol method. This could be another way within your own troop to cause a change for the better. 4)"Our District has no struggling troops, just ask the troops leaders. Every troop I talked with has told me they run a great program " what a grand district you reside in("its just cant they get kids interested in joining or staying in the program.)"Start small work within, the boys will follow what they want.It take time and a great deal of effort. If there is no support in the District, what about the Council? 5) As for those old timers, there no room at the inn for you, find their weakness, but are you sure that you want to be involve in that group, do you like beating your head with a rock. "but do not want to put effort into the program and who dont want to step down and adult scout leaders who just refuse to follow the program." "I would love to get involved there and have taken Roundtable Commissioners training but since I am not one of the old timers who run our district (and still along way from being one), I will never be asked" So you are going to stick around for awhile then? One Step at a Time! Best of Luck try not to change the world all at once.

I'm sorry I thought this was Scouting. "Scouting is a game with a purpose-the purpose of helping boys become men, training them for Citzenship,Character,Health & Strenght,Skills and Service to Others.Training for citzenship-that's the aim of Scouting. Strong in character, healthy in body, skilled with his hands, and keen of mind, ready to be of help to other people. Scouting is adventure, comradeship. Scouting allows a boy to create a mental pictures of his goals ,then to work to make those pictures become reality. To choose their own direction and influnce their own Destiny. To try to decide wisely and well.What is more important living the Scout Oath and Law or earning Merit Badges, becoming an Eagle Scout? Not ever boy will become an Eagle Scout, not ever boy will earn merit badges or advance in rankas fast as others, they are no least of scouts are they?

Awhile back,a patrol reverse the some of the requirements to fit in urban setting. The scouts learned a great deal about survival skills in the city, with no funds, Boxes where used, sit on steam grates, newpapers, what food was out there,etc.. it gave them a view into the homeless population. This was not for the merit badge, it was a learning experince. They also did orienteering in the city, Wildlife management , Landscape Architecture, and Mammal Study with Nature. It open alot of eyes. Survival in the concrete jungle... What they learned in the Wilderness Survival MB they could relate to a new setting.

Yes, EIKY it is impressive, and that why the military support the Jamboree and the knowledge gain ; yet the next Jamboree there will be the same debates. While watching,I'm looking for Scouts coming to the aide, we know how to set up tents, we have tents, pots and pans, there knowledge of first aide, search and rescue,can unload trucks, etc... When I was a youth there was the Emergency Service, Scouts where involved , we set up tents, cooked meals, help in search and rescues, Forest fire where fought, clean up, you name it Scouts where there floods ,huricanes. In uniform,lantens in hands. It seen back then Scouting was prepared and involved more, maybe its the times , insurance,not sure, yet I'm still looking to see some scouts involved in the relief efforts.

There are many types of anchors, which is only part of the ground tackle,there is the anchor cables (chains), in the right combination it works, or just as sails there are so many types; just as there are persons in scouting, the knowledge of being able to uses the right combination to achive the best results is the trick. Thru training, example, pratice, and leadership the crew is formed, there is a program. As for sinking , woman and children first. Before you put anyone over the side, you better make sure that the ship is sinking, and that nothing can be done to save her.Was an SOS or MAYDAY sent out ? Can she be beached ? As for being an ASM/Second Mate are you relieving the Captain of his/her command , or just jumping ship? Not all commands are royal navys, nor are they Mchales Navies either; In starting up a new unit, are you going to be the CO /COR that's part of the program. Starting with a good keel , in building your ship, or are you looking just for command of your own. Get the knowledge/training, needed for command, time in helps too. What is the mission of the ship and crew? Remeber this is boys led !What happen to the Patrol method? why not forget sails and anchors for awhile stay with a paddle or oar ,they work ;paddle your own canoe, row your own boat; see what happens. Set the example scull(ing) your boat ( Later on you can add a drummer and whips)Eye patches come later. Can you make one walk the plank, or will they just say ashore once the the ship is ( shipshape) Just love these Metaphors There are Sea Anchors too, and Storm Oil.... I want a Steam power at least.SPEED.

Wow, Your in trouble any way you look at it.Why not let "Her Who Must Be Obeyed" talk to him too. Give the speech, now that he is going to be a SEA SCOUT there is the Quatermaster Award, it is harder than Eagle! So there is another speech down the road, how about Ranger and Silver Awards more speeches. there are always going to be talks,then one day he will be giving you speeches, telling you which nursing home, or why you need not drive anymore, etc.... It just history repeating itself.

It seems as if BSA has the sole by-line if anything that is out of place, etc...Yes other groups do hit the news now and again. It seens as it is open season on BSA, why,it is easy pickings, the views of a boy scout being squeakey clean, doing no wrong has for a very long time been the key note of scouting, helping a old lady across the street, doing a good deed, scout law,etc...So when something hits the fan, the news media pick it up and runs with it. Just look at the media in the past several months, where one female has been in the news every day, yet how many other go missing without a word in the press, or without the resources being used to seek out the facts of their disappearance... As for whom owns the unit, it matters not, It is called DEEP Pockets, sue everyone; even if BSA at National level is removed ,there is still councils, districts, units and the CO's as well as leaders, and even the boys. This cost both in monetary and resources, which could be better used in achieving the mission. AS for National ; pasting down to the rank and file, information on judgements,reason for changes what ever, this could be handle better in many cases. The lack of good communications is at every level. Just explained better the reason or concept, it could clear up a great deal of misinterpret information. If this is/could be done by training, information sheets, or by word of commissioner. Not everything at National, or even district level effects the program at unit level, yet there is concern by many that resouces could be handle better for further generations of scouts, yet some feel that these resouces should have more local level input.It is hard for some to understand the workings of BSA, and questions are the norm.

I have seem Eagles whom could not soar in the skys, that the basics of scouting principle where voided in their knowledge. Yet these scouts are eagle , they wear the eagle rank , most don't stay as eagles after they leave the nest. Did we fail these boys, in not presenting the program? What is the goal of Scouting here is it that rank of Eagle received, the number of merit badges earned, or is it more than that! The term of "Paper Eagles" , "Eagle Mills" have been around for some time, it's nothing new in BSA. When there no program followed, that the principles are not taught, lessions not learn, we label the failures of others. The term "Paper Leaders" sounds great. The priorities of our youth changes as do ours, these should not lessen the accomplishments of either. Awhile back,priorities change for many , they switch the uniform for another one. Those EAGLE Soar! Knight of Dunamis

SemperParatus, NationalGeographic Society did an article about the rails using small carts on abandon tracks some time back(years).They did several other articles about the Greenways Past to Present also. Most of the "Trail to Rails" are for foot traffic and bike. In southern Pennsylvania there several short tracks; contact Stewartstown there is a nice short line there that is privatety own they mite help. The National Park Service,Has Steamtown, Pa., which deals on trains, contacting them with a service project along the way/tracks could be awy too. The Coal companies in West Viginia,and western Virginia, and Pennsylvania own a great deal of tracks, another sources to look into. Another way is from Washington,D.C. to Williamsburg, Virginia,working on Railroad Merit Badge, American Heritage, Archaeology,maybe Cinematography. Camping at Williamsburg, and Jamestown. I believe talking with the Railroads could help, but with the crackdown on security, it could be a thing of the past. Search the websites, Best of Luck, You could try the Eire Canal or other canals on the east coast,where you can camp every night along the way, most of the towns have events ,...

CWkitchenStaffer. Hopefully your troop is run by the boy's, and there is a chain of command as how matters are handle: first Patrol leader then Senior Patrol leader, etc... to the ASM's, Scoutmaster to the Committee. In most cases the Troop should handle any discipline action, then it goes up hill to the ASM, SM, then if it can not be handle at that level it goes to the committee.

AS a old timer once stated "Padding your own canoe" (B-P) May the wind be ever at your back, Saint Brendan at your side. Fair winds Best of Luck

The Purposes of Cub Scouting; why not rewrite the program where alternative achievements will allow him to still be involved. Remember that there are no performance requirements for a boy. Simply participating and doing one's best in an activity constitutes completion. Most of the Tiger Cub achievements do not require stamina or coordination. There are trip or vists to the police dept. ,fire dept. etc... a call beforehand making sure that the site is accessible for him., that the program offer will allow him to be apart of same. Most will bend over to help out. In archery, how about a crossbow, or air arrow, or as you stated a smaller bow, Planning ahead is going to be the den leader hardist job. It seems as you are ahead of the game in that the Mother is involve in the pack and is willing to help out, thus she will be one of your greatest resources, along with his doctors and other parties involve with him (school), There are groups that offer support for dwarfism( here again ask parents,doctors,etc...) Check out the websites. Contact the Special Olympics in your area. The Council and the District should be able to help a great deal, ( Cub Scout Day Camp,etc...)Making sure that opportunities and avenues are within reach, to remove unreasonable and unnecessary barriers through creative thinking and actions( through Scouting flexibilities and range of choice). Good Planning both at den and pack level is needed

CNYScouter, In Maine Katahdin Camp Roosevelt , check out the website for Katahdin Council, in Alaska there where two camps Taku Harbor and Eagle River or River Eagle (it been awhile now) For the Book "Scout Camp USA" go to http://www.scoutcampsusa.com/ site. I would subjest that you go to Scouter Network to do your search. Blue Ridge is great, there are so many places to go, with the cost of fuel going up I would start looking local 3 to 4 hours trip one way to camp. Try the National Park Service ( Fire Island) or the Forest Service, and NY State Parks,etc... How about a train journey, or an inland water way cruise, north , stopping off here and there to camp and sightsee ? Camp Ockanickon Scout Reservation in PA is active. Most camps now are offering VCR's to promote their camp/services. Ask for troops whom attended camp last year for their feedback, you can uses the e-mail or the phone. You can also explore camps off season with senior patrol,by the patrol method each patrol is given a site to visit or OA , or even leadership training or adult training. How about a summer service project , one year a few scouts fought forest fires ( years ago). Best of Luck to you and the troop, have fun & enjoy YIS

" There are many definitions of advancement, but the Scouting definition might well be, simply, "the art of meeting a challenge." It is in what the scout learns and achieve in challenge of the Eagle project. What is the challenge for Mom & Dad to fund the project ? Is there no other way for funding in the area ? These are questions the District Advancement Committee need to address, as well as the Scoutmaster, the the Troop Committee. As a demonstration of leadership, the scout must plan the work, organize the personnel needed, and direct the project to its completion. In the materials needed and how were they acquired, as in the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, what ever means should be listed and approved prior to the start of the project. SemperParatus is correct the Life to Eagle Seminar is where most of the information is given out,and if not then contact your District Advancement Chair. Asks Questions. Congratulations to your son in achiving Life. Remeber It is his Eagle Project

The Chartered Organization has a word as to who can be apart of their organization/unit. As NWScouter stated :"Any kind of crime against children or sexual assault would not be allowed." As per the Adult Application "Leadership Requirements" The applicant must possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities that the Boy Scouts of America deems necessary to afford positive leadership to youth. The applicant must also be the correct age, and subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle, and abide by the Scout Oath or Promise and the Scout Law. BSA has the right of approval. As per the application # 6b how was this anwsered as with 6c,6d,and 6e( did he tell the truth was he forthright) Was a reference check done by the CR or CC or organization head ? and did he sign the applicantion ? If everything is on the square, then it is up to the COR/CC to approval or not, then BSA. If the unit deems the applicant within the Leadership requirements and the rest of the unit membership (the most case the parents) , have no rejections, there should be no trouble in having a new adult aboard. It seens as your choice has been made already

EagleInKY, There seems to be several items that need to be address; The scout has a learning disability, along with a physical disability,to the point that the school system address and clasified him.Yet his father wishes to mainstream him in scouting in the troop. The troop leadership, must decide how they are going to react to this scout needs and wellbeing. The question of recognizing him as a scout with special needs, so he can participate as a member of the unit. The benifits the scout will receive as special need scout and having alternate advancement requirements and to be qualified to register beyond the normal registration age. The other would be how the Advancement Committee and Board of Review shall view the scout which disabling conditions that would prohibit the scout from completing the said requirements if accommodations are not made ; or if accommodations made and/or alternate requirements arranged . First , it seems as there is a need for the parents to understand that having their son determined as a scout with special needs will only allow thier son to achive the maxium from the scouting program.That his permanent disabilities should not prevent him from being a participating member of a Scouting unit. I would provide the parents with the following information: "Scoutmaster's Guide to Working with Scouts with Disabilities"(#33056A) and "Scouting for Youth with Physical Disabilities"(#33057C) "Scouting for Youth with Learning Disabilities"(#33065A)"Advancement Committee Policies & Procedures" (#33088C) and the "Boy Scout Requirements" (Y2K) (#33215C/D). There is nothing stated that this can not be done at a later stage, but the better the sooner. The basic premise of Scouting for youth with disabilities is that they want most to participate like other youth, and scouting gives them that opportunity. When permanent disabliting conditions prohibits the Scout from completing the necessary requirements of a Rank or merit badge, accommodations should be made or alternate advancement requirements be arranged. To stresses the Scouts abilities rather than disabilities, through Scouting flexibilities and range of choice. To remove unreasonable and unnecessary barriers, through creative thinking and actions, which may impede a boy in achieving his personal goals, At the same time the plan will not lessen the relative challenges of scouting experience to achieve actual personal growth. That he is expected to do his best!The only limitations upon achievement of this should be the boy's individual desire, focus, and perseverance.What would the scout lose from the program without accommodations ? What is required , of the Troop ,the scouts, the adults, for this boy to attend activities as a normal scout. Will he require a parent to be with him at scouting activities, is there medications which requires special attention, can he read, speak at a level which would allow him to function,etc...What is require to keep the program safe for all, to allow all to take part in,etc... Without knowledge and a plan to address these items, it's looking for trouble. By having a Individual Scout Achievement Plan for the scout, which allows for the addendums to be amended, and that the safety of each scout is part of the consideration. Reguirements may be redefined to maintain the challenge but provide an alternative path towards achievement will give the Advancement committee and the Board of Review the guide lines need to be fair in their duties. First and formost have everyone understand the program It's a team effort.

Not all the facts have been presented, and that's ok; the question is "What is the purpose of scouting?" Do we only select boys who are squeaky clean, who have practice the scout law and promise long before they join, or is the goal of scouting to build the character of the boys to become good citizens ? Is this not a learning experience, hopefully we learn from our mistakes. Being in the USA, the view points of juvenile procedures, are very forgiving ,mostly in the confidentiality of the criminal record. Yet, we are questioning if the scout should advance in rank to Eagle, what the differance from any other rank in that of advancement. Do we hold the Board of Review to lessor standards if the rank is only First Class, or Star ? What of his peers, as this is a boy run program, what do they believe should take place. And last, is Eagle an award or a journey of learning; the analysis is our ability to make the scout oath and law vital in the lives of the boys.

Been to so many camps, I have found that it's what the boys are looking for and want. What sounds good to the adults mite not be what the scouts wanted. Having a boys committee that select several camps and if possible visit them ( this could be done as a senior patrol outing) helps. There are several books on councils camps and other camps too good write-ups. Knowing the facts can make or break a summer camp for all. Maine has some real nice camps , California Caliente Isl. or how about some camps in Alaska. If money was no problem trek along a mountain range or something on those lines.

Awhile back, we had the cubs make their own sausages from scrap, just as bread on a stick,egg in a orange, or on a rock; they had made their own noodles, it is all a learning experince for the boys. Not every boy is going to eat everything that is place in front of him. Hot dogs are the basic, their cheap, they keep well,you can cook them so many ways, or eat them as they are. Corn dogs dip in chili. Still a tongue sandwich, or meatloaf are my desires Keep the Hot Dog