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I'm sure many have seen the recent article in the New York Times discussing local concern over some issues related to the proposed site for future jamborees in Virginia.According to that article a rep from BSA stated that they may not be able to use that site for the next event in 2013.I'd suggest those who haven't seen the article read it for themselves. Among other questions,a couple in particular come to mind: If the 2013 jamboree can't be held at the proposed new site,what is the BSA's "Plan B"? As I understand they have been informed the current site will not be available after 2010. Have there been similar local concerns raised over the proposed site for a new high adventure site in West Virginia? I'd be very interested in more details,particularly from those in the vacinity of these two sites.

I find this discussion very interesting,from a personal viewpoint.I come from the council that includes this unit,and served as our Exploring Division chairman when Venturing was created.At that time,and I believe currently,our largest Exploring cluster group was law enforcement,and the Border Patrol was the sponsor of most of those units.We had their local sector commander as a guest speaker at one of our annual recognition dinners.They were a very active and involved sponsor for these units. We attempted to service both the existing Exploring and new Venturing units through our division.We found that though the two programs have some simularities(eg:youth age range),their differences were sufficient to warrent serving them differently.So the Exploring posts were assigned to a new LFL division,along with our in-school and special needs groups.The Venturing crews were assigned to our districts,where they remain. One of the reasons we decided to seperate these programs(though not the primary one)was that some Scouters from the traditional programs weren't comfortable working in LFL.It's a subsidiary of the BSA,with its own policies,some of which are rather different from those for the traditional programs.This has proven to be a satisfactory(though admittedly not perfect)arrangement.

Since I haven't seen anything since my last message,I'll provide what I have obtained to date.I'd appreciate any additional details which can be confirmed. Reporting to CSE(CEO): (no groups directly report) departments-BSA Foundation,Government/Community Relations Reporting to ACSE(COO): Council Solutions Group departments-Finance Impact,Membership Impact,Program Impact Inovations/Stategy Group departments-? Marketing Group departments-? Outdoor Adventures Group departments-Jamboree,National Events Regional Directors(4) "independent"departments-International,LFL Reporting to ACSE(CFO): Administration Group departments-? Controller departments-? Human Resources Group departments-? Supply Group departments-? "independent"departments-Internal Audit,Legal

I have not had much success in obtaining answers to detailed questions about national operations unless I have a sourse in the national office willing to provide them. I am a detailed-oriented person,for which I don't apologize.I've also learned that if one has access to how a group is organized it can answer many(though not all)of these types of questions,so that we don't have to make guesses based on incomplete information. I suspect that the answers to most of the questions above are available on the Scoutnet intranet service.If someone with access to it is willing to research this a little and post it here,that should handle most of the questions we have been discussing.

I have not had much success in obtaining answers to detailed questions about national operations unless I have a sourse in the national office willing to provide them. I am a detailed-oriented person,for which I don't apologize.I've also learned that if one has access to how a group is organized it can answer many(though not all)of these types of questions,so that we don't have to make guesses based on incomplete information. I suspect that the answers to most of the questions above are available on the Scoutnet intranet service.If someone with access to it is willing to research this a little and post it here,that should handle most of the questions we have been discussing.

I have not had much success in obtaining answers to detailed questions about national operations unless I have a sourse in the national office willing to provide them. I am a detailed-oriented person,for which I don't apologize.I've also learned that if one has access to how a group is organized it can answer many(though not all)of these types of questions,so that we don't have to make guesses based on incomplete information. I suspect that the answers to most of the questions above are available on the Scoutnet intranet service.If someone with access to it is willing to research this a little and post it here,that should handle most of the questions we have been discussing.

I have not had much success in obtaining answers to detailed questions about national operations unless I have a sourse in the national office willing to provide them. I am a detailed-oriented person,for which I don't apologize.I've also learned that if one has access to how a group is organized it can answer many(though not all)of these types of questions,so that we don't have to make guesses based on incomplete information. I suspect that the answers to most of the questions above are available on the Scoutnet intranet service.If someone with access to it is willing to research this a little and post it here,that should handle most of the questions we have been discussing.

I have not had much success in obtaining answers to detailed questions about national operations unless I have a sourse in the national office willing to provide them. I am a detailed-oriented person,for which I don't apologize.I've also learned that if one has access to how a group is organized it can answer many(though not all)of these types of questions,so that we don't have to make guesses based on incomplete information. I suspect that the answers to most of the questions above are available on the Scoutnet intranet service.If someone with access to it is willing to research this a little and post it here,that should handle most of the questions we have been discussing.

I have not had much success in obtaining answers to detailed questions about national operations unless I have a sourse in the national office willing to provide them. I am a detailed-oriented person,for which I don't apologize.I've also learned that if one has access to how a group is organized it can answer many(though not all)of these types of questions,so that we don't have to make guesses based on incomplete information. I suspect that the answers to most of the questions above are available on the Scoutnet intranet service.If someone with access to it is willing to research this a little and post it here,that should handle most of the questions we have been discussing.

Based on reviewing the new organization charts for the national office and national volunteer leadership it appears that there is a least a limited correlation between them. 1.There are eight "groups" on the national office chart which report to the two ACSE's.Seven of them have a corresponding "standing" committee on the volunteer chart(the controller does not). 2.The standing committees collectively contain 28 "support" committees.The office groups are composed of "departments".I would expect that there is a correlation between support committees and departments.But since I don't have access to a more detailed chart of the office I can't evaluate this at this time. 3.There are 5 "special" committees and 4 "ad-hoc" committees on the volunteer chart.There are a variety of independent departments on the office chart which report directly to one of the two ACSE's or the CSE,rather than being in one of the eight groups.There appears to be a partial correlation between these two types of committees on the volunteer chart and these independent departments on the office chart.But there are committees without a corresponding department shown,and departments without a corresponding committee shown. To be able to do a complete analysis we really need a detailed chart of the national office that includes the new departments and other sub-divisions. I would expect that someone within the national office has already produced a list that compares the professional and volunteer components of the new national organization.If we could acquire access to that that should answer many of the questions we've been asking.

From another online source I've obtained a little more information.Apparently the largest components of the national office are still "groups".These are now comprised of "departments"(rather than the former divisions). I've also seen the term "team" used,but am not sure how it fits into the new structure. If I obtain any more specifics I'll share them.

While I appreciate reading about individual experiances,I also am still interested in securing answers to the general questions I listed above. On the one hand,I would expect that infractions and some misdomenor convictions do not necessarily disqualify applications.On the other hand I would expect that many(all?)felony convictions probably do. I suppose that this could be summarized by answers to two broad questions: First-What types of convictions automatically disqualify all applicants for registration? Second-What types of convictions(if any)can be evaluated by councils on an individual basis for registration?

I have now seen another reference to a "department" at the national BSA office,specifically Jamboree Department.Since I believe the personnel supporting this event on a long-term basis constituted a division in the old organization,this leads me to wonder whether the term "department" has now replaced "division". My sense is that until we somehow obtain access to the details of the structure of the national staff below the "group" level shown on the charts listed above,we're just going to be guessing about all of this. Hopefully we could also learn about the structure of national volunteers below the level of the committees also shown on the charts above.This should assist is understanding how the national staff and volunteers are expected to work together in the new organization. Anyone out there know a friendly professional in your council office who might be willing to access Scoutnet to obtain this information?

I believe the largest components of national staff,whose directors report to the two ACSE's,are still called "groups",based on the cover memo that came with the new staff organization chart. In the past the groups were composed of "divisions",some of which were further sub-divided into "services". I don't know if these two terms are still being used,or how the term "department" fits into the new structure.Perhaps it's now being used instead of one of the old terms. The new chart was being introduced at a professional meeting,and its cover memo mentioned that additional details would also be available at that time.I would expect that by now a more complete chart,including the lower levels,has been posted somewhere on the Scoutnet intranet.We need a BSA staff person with access to it to extact that information and provide it as a link or attachment.That should answer most of the questions we have.

I recently received a mailing from the national office that related to this subject.It was a newsletter to Scouters who had participated in various donation programs to solicit future doantions and advise us of special events,such as the travelling exhibit of Scouting art.It was from the "Finance Impact Department". I'd guess this is one of the mysterious new entities within the new structure of the national office,which isn't listed on the new organization chart referred to above. I also wonder about the term "department".Although this is commonly used within councils I don't believe I've seen it used by the national office in the past.Is it the new term for what used to be called a "division"?

To answer a question asked above,I do remember the GREEN woolen jacket.Though it was intended for youth it was also available in adult sizes,and a friend who served with me as a weeekend camp director wore his regularly. As another piece of trivia,apparently there were various producers of certain uniform items,including the wool jacket.Our Director of Camping was very astute in purchasing,and ordered jackets for his use and that of staff for winter Wood Badges from the BSA supply center in the midwest,where he was able to secure the jacket made from a heavier weight material.He did the same for the old wool khaki uniforms,which also came in a much heavier material.I rather doubt that similar variations in uniforms still exist.

Thank you for the ideas above.When I served on the camp staff as a young man we used the Exploring uniform,and the council has converted to the Venturing uniform.We have a daytime option that includes a staff tee shirt,but require a full uniform in the evening amd check in/out days. The staff is not a chartered unit.They tried that when Venturing was formed,and I served as council Venturing chairman.For various reasons our SE decided not to continue that.Considering the situation I agreed with him. I remember the Scout Shop selling Venturing strips to replace the Exploring strips when the programs changed.I just wish I had been smart enough to secure some of them,along with some of their remaining long-sleeved shirts.

About 30 years after having last served on a summer camp staff I have retired from my "real"job,and am returning as a summer camp director in my council.As I'm sure many other councils have done,we use the BSA Venturing uniform for our camp staff.I have a staff member whose medical condition requires him to protect himself from exposure to the sun by wearing long pants,long-sleeved shirts and a hat while outside.That's not a problem with regard to the pants or hat,but as far as I can tell the BSA no longer produces long-sleeved dark green shirts,as it did when Exploring was a uniformed traditional program. Does anyone happen to know of a reliable sourse for long-sleeved Exploring shirts/blouses for sale? Being new would be ideal,but as long as they're in good condition we could make use of them.We don't need a large number,but I'm hoping there may be some way to locate them other than individually on a service such as E Bay. I happen to take similar medication,so I'd also be interested for myself.I'd rather not have this person(and myself)be the only people on our staff not in proper uniform.

With regard to the original question,I asked the same to Bill Evans,last staff member of the former Venturing Division,now assigned to general training.He responded that they knew this was something that should be done to be consistant with the new terminology,but with many changes in the national office it wasn't a top priority.He mentioned that perhaps when the current stock of Venturing Commissioner and Comissioner Staff patches were low enough the change might be made by the Supply Group. I have observed that different people have different priorities for numerous reasons.I believe that if an organization decides to change an aspect of a program it should identify all the items that will be affected,and attempt to change them all at about the same time.The BSA hasn't always been the most consistant in doing this.I've found that its staff in the national office are usually aware of subjects such as this,and will work on addressing them,while having to follow their internal procedures.It should be interesting to observe whether the recent reorganization of the national offices changes this for the better or the worse.

One of my potential sources was regional staff and websites.In the Western Region we have had an annual booklet with details on council camps and their programs,which is now on their website.I'd expect the other regions may have similar lists. I'll also make contact with some staff from the (former) Venturing Division as possible sources.

You have brought up an interesting,and rather complex, subject. One of my assignments for many years has been leading visitation teams for resident camps in my area.Our team was assigned to visit a large multiple-camp reservation offering a Venturing summer camp a couple years after Venturing began.The council had organized more advanced activities in its existing program areas in one of its camps for these crews.It was somewhat difficult to evaluate, since the standards didn't have specific sections for Venturing programs,as it did for Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs.We decided to use sections of both the resident standards and high adventure standards to evaluate that camp. I don't know if there is a list that covers what you are interested in.I could think of some possible resources at the national and regional offices.I'll see what I can learn.

It appears that I'm not alone.I've never understood why the BSA has been so reluctant to provide details on how its national office is organized.You see references to various components in various documents or sections of the website,but I haven't been able to learn about it in its entirety.Just try using their search engine,and see how far you get. My primary assignment has been Venturing since the program was first announced. Several of our Scouters have gotten to know the staff in that(former)division when they have visited us,and later we have become involved as instructors in various national trainings.First one assistant director left to join the faculty of BYU.Then the director was transferred to national events,and the remaining staff man was transferred to training. I understand the concept of organizing by function rather than by program,and I suppose it could be effective.But I still would like to see the internal composition of the new professional groups and volunteer committees. I expect this is accessable to professionals in their Scoutnet intranet.Is there one willing to extract just that information and share it with us?

Thank you for your reply to my question.It appears that councils have some discretion regarding handling the results from these checks.I would expect that the BSA has provided them with some guidelines to use,so that there is consistancy.I am interested is some details,such as: 1.Do all felony convictions automatically disqualify,or only some convictions(eg:violent crimes,child abuse)? 2.How are misdomenor convictions handled? 3.Are juvenile convictions considered? 4.Are only convictions considered,not charges that do not result in convictions? I am aware that charges not resulting in convictions, and juvenile records,may not be information that is supposed to be included in these checks.But I also know that employers/organizations with sufficient resources can find ways to access that information.

Thank you to those who provided the information I requested. I am aware the BSA publications(including the article in Scouting magazine)include only current items.I understand why some awards and their insignia have been discontinued,and am not suggesting that they be resumed.I just wanted to be able to identify some knots that I've seen from time to time being worn by some older Scouters.As someone who is a senior citizen myself it's something I find interesting.

I am familar with the section in the BSA Uniform Guide,and the BSA website,that lists CURRENT square knots. But there are several knots for awards that are no longer presented;an example would be the old knot for the Air Scout/Explorer Ace.As I understand a Scouter who properly earned such a knot may continue to wear it if he wishes.In this case he may prefer the old knot to the current knot that replaces it. A more recent situation would include awards such as the Spurgeon Award within Exploring.While this was a traditional program up to 1998 it had a square knot.Now that it's a program within LFL I believe the knot is intended to be worn only by those who received it up until the program change in 1998. Is there a definative list of OLD official BSA knots including a description or drawing/photo?