ScoutWolf

Hey everyone, question for those in the know. Can the district nominate scouters for the OA? If so, I was wondering if camping requirements can be waived? I have seen conflicting reports.

Thanks BD, Im not the WDL so Im not up to snuff on it as much. Saw it today when I was looking at MB.org for some items for one of our kids AoL ceremony coming up.

I understand how you feel in this manner MDM. You put a lot of effort in trying to put on a positive program for your den and there always seems to be that one issue. I agree with taking the high road is the best option. Congratulate him and the parents, and then put your energy back into making an exciting program for the newly arriving bears next year. To be honest, I really dont see this scout family continuing too much after your B/G banquet. Its like we have DL who ditches on his den a lot without notice and good reason. It frustrates the living hades out of us, but the best thing to do in that situation as well as your current predicament is to be nice, congratulate, encourage them to stay and be active in the program and move them on to Scouts. However, I just dont see this happening. Interesting arguement, Is it time to add an attendance req. for AoL? If the Boy Scouts have attendance req. or what "active" is for rank advancement, this sounds like a great idea for AoL. If your going to earn CS highest honor, then I think this is necessary.

I understand how you feel in this manner MDM. You put a lot of effort in trying to put on a positive program for your den and there always seems to be that one issue. I agree with taking the high road is the best option. Congratulate him and the parents, and then put your energy back into making an exciting program for the newly arriving bears next year. To be honest, I really dont see this scout family continuing too much after your B/G banquet. Its like we have DL who ditches on his den a lot without notice and good reason. It frustrates the living hades out of us, but the best thing to do in that situation as well as your current predicament is to be nice, congratulate, encourage them to stay and be active in the program and move them on to Scouts. However, I just dont see this happening. Interesting arguement, Is it time to add an attendance req. for AoL? If the Boy Scouts have attendance req. or what "active" is for rank advancement, this sounds like a great idea for AoL. If your going to earn CS highest honor, then I think this is necessary.

We have a scout with Aspergers. (I put an ephasis on this here because its not appropriate to say Aspergers child IMO). Dad is involved with the pack as a DL, but he only listens to his dad even though his father has reminded him that other leaders in the pack can call him out when hes acting up. You just have to firm but fair with these scouts as if they didnt have a diagnosis. Special needs only units are great because its good for networking and all with parents, but honestly if the goal is to help students (I teach) with disabilites be able to function in society then inclusion is the best bet. I have told myself that I would never want to turn a scout away based on their diagnosis wether it be mental or physical. If the parent pulls them out thats their call. I recently worked with a scout who is dyslexic. He earned his AoL which was awesome. However, he struggles in Boy Scouts with the material. Once I told the SM some strategies he needed to work with the scout that we used, it worked almost immediately. We just have to change our approach. I wish there was more training on this issue. Scouting a great program for students with disabilities. As a High School Teacher, I agree with the IEP issue, its pretty much non-enforceable after high school, especially in college. Those that say its a PITA for teachers to do the accomodations, your absolutely right. If they could abolish this testing nonsense, I would love to devote more time to modifying my lessons to cater to the needs of students. We do the best we can. Its also on the kid at the HS level to start self-advocating for themselves. Its all about growing up.

Ran across MeritBadge.org saying that the LNT award for CS was being cancelled. http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Leave_No_Trace_Award_%28Cub_Scouts%29 Seems they have substituted it for http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Outdoor_Ethics_Awareness_Award This is a tad confusing. They say on MB.org that the award is being cancelled, but link the new award to the older ones. Not sure if they have everything in place yet, but I could only imagine it being confusing. Im smelling a new edition of the CS books with all these changes in the next 2 years.

We do 1st, 2nd, 3rd for each den and 1-3rd for overall. We dont really do design as much since the kids like to do fast cars. All kids get a certificate and a patch for participating. Adult race there are no awards.

All W2 boys get a BSA knife from the CM. I made a AoL Plaque and Arrow for those earning AoL Heres a great example of a very low cost AoL award. http://www.instructables.com/id/Arrow-of-Light-Arrow-and-Plaque/ I just made the plaque (not the engraving thing) Probably cost under $10 to make (I had the stain already). The arrow was a dowel (.98) and Feathers (1.99) the sections for Paint, I already have. I am going to woodburn the kids names onto their plaques. Probably could make 4 out of the piece of whiteboard I had. We give the knife to the SM at presentation time b/c they have to earn their totin chip as a scout. Motivation to get that knife and the totin chip.

For Bears, you could find a local cleanup of a River. I like the idea about helping out the chartering organization. Also, see if the state parks in your local area would like some volunteer help. Also can help with your JTE volunteer hours.

Hey All, Looking for Atlanta FOS CSPs. If anyone has some they are willing to part with, just let me know.

Thanks sentinel for the comment. I actually dont have any children yet. I was just helping out a friend and I realized how much I really did miss scouting. I wasnt trying to imply that national was kicking the can down the road in a negative way. Just my initial gut reaction. I agree, tenting is not an issue with me. Just make sure you have all that squared away before you go.

After doing much reading of these posts and hearing from the "doom and gloom" crowd and the "you are a bigot" crowd, I would like to share my comments and concerns. One of the reasons was 1. My mother pulled me out of scouts because our SM abused his children verbally and physically both in front and away from troop functions (not a great example). 2. I got tired of being called "gay" and "wuss" because I wasnt into sports as much as I was into outdoors and reading. I did not see a great side of scouting, and its one of the regrets in life that I didnt suck it up and stick with it. Im trying to see a more positive side now working with cubbies. While I fall more on the moderate/conservative side of things, I am personally fine with the local option. I work with people who are gay and they are some of the most loyal and dedicated people I can rely/depend on in my field. When I took YPT , as a teacher it was a good reminder. The things about the scouts made sense, 2 deep leadership, no isolation, be professional, polite, and prompt to handle problems that arise. Firstly, In my opinion, these leaders who want to join will be subject to the same background checks and rules that I follow as a scouter. I know dang sure to never sleep in a tent with another boy by myself or even with another adult. I know not to isolate myself with another scout, or permit any of that to happen with parents. If these leaders want to join, they know the rules and regs they will have to follow. Secondly, My first reaction was "great, National is kicking the can down the road to CORs" My C.O. (a UMC) is what we could say has a moderate/conservative slant. However, I researched the position of the UMC on their website, and it falls within my beliefs that people who are homosexual are welcome to participate in sacraments, become members of the church, ect. They cannot however serve as members of the clergy or be married in the church or by ministers. Fair enough, makes sense to me. Thirdly, whats to stop packs/troops/crews labeling each other as anti-gay or Gay-friendly units? I could only imagine the scuttlebutt that parents would say. We have some cutthroat parents in our district and I can only imagine the ripple effect. I am not sure if I have added anything to the conversation, I felt like I just needed to get that off my chest. I dont think we are going to see a lot of change in my group. I am just planning on deferring to the C.O. position.

Im working on a Inter-faith service for my diversity WB Ticket. Does anyone have any good ideas, songs, or devotionals that are cub appropriate and really engage the kiddos?

"It also seems that this Pack has no formal monthly Pack Leaders meetings." Den Leaders mentioned it... Said no to it. Hard to drive the pack when your CM doesnt see the need to meet. Thats the zinger. Poor communication from him to other people in leadership positions.

"Also, gotta say, private, suburban school, as long as a parent calls in every day to let the school know their child is going to be absent, no one from the school will call to "check up" on the student. Your checking-up has nothing to do with "no child left behind", and everything to do with not trusting the students, or their parents." Slow down please. I wasnt being super serious here about NCLB. It was meant as a metaphor in all earnest. Trusting parents and students? I guess I am not allowed to care about my kids after school hours. So if I call my parents just wanting to talk to them about why johnny isn't in school and hes missing work and hes failing my class, that's not trusting my parents? I don't frankly care if its public or private, kids are kids no matter where. Kids need to be held accountable and taught accountability by someone, if not their parents, then myself as their teacher. I work with parents who have no idea what real accountability is. I get paid the "big bucks"

Oh the times and how they are different now in education. I dont have any kids yet, but I already feel like I have teenagers with 165 kids on my case load at school calling parents to see whats up when they are out due to things. When they mean "no child/teacher/parent left behind"...they really do mean it Not trying to come off as "whiny" through all of this everyone, and maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill through all of this. I'm just honestly concerned that parents are going to get a bad impression of him as a leader and a person and the pack.(This message has been edited by ScoutWolf)

Does life get in the way? Absolutely. I make it a priority to be there for my kids though. I know what you are saying with a CM being there for Den Meetings. Theres not a lot for him to "do". I see the perspective there, but when I have obligations with work such as parent conferences or curriculum nights, I let the CM know well in advance that I am not going to make it. The whole peanut allergy situation: I told him, "oh" I took the initative to call the next day and check up. I guess its too much to ask for someone who is in charge of a program to call up a scout and their mom to say "hey is little johnny doing fine?" I heard about this from his DL. As a teacher by trade if a student is out more than two consecutive days, I call home and see whats up. Its the teacher in me I guess. Basementdweller, I know you are into the WB hate and im not concerned with that, but when you have missed 4 of the last 5 meetings due to "things I cant tell you." What is going on? My response, "Are things ok? Can I pray for ya man?" No response. Were both members of the chartering organization (church) and worked together in various church positions together. So its not like a acquaintance style relationship. Hes a life long scouter and has been through thick and thin with the pack, but when you finally are excited about having kids in the pack and you arent there for them, what are you to do? Hes very set in his ways, some of which are effective, others not so much IMHO. If you do that in my profession not showing up, kids arent performing, you arent performing meeting responsibilities, your gone. Yes its "volunteer" but its your job as a leader to be there when needed. He was needed and not there. I guess my vision and perception about what a leader does is different from others. Im just going to work on retaining parents and scouts (my ticket). Im just growing weary of having to stick up for him to parents. thats all.(This message has been edited by ScoutWolf)

No desire to be CM...seriously. Just a desire for competent adults to run a program and a position they volunteered for so DLs can go back to doing what they do best. Den Leading.

Thanks for the replies. To clarify some things: We all meet at a central location. He does come to those, but he's facilitating usually rotating around to other dens. That's not my biggest issue. He has been a no show at pack meeting where we usually give out vital information. It's kinda left the CC to do the work of two people and her to assume what is fine and not fine with the CM. Our CC last night said to go ahead and do ACM training. Me and the WDL are doing it this weekend. We do have monthly parent meeting and round tables with them. They are the ones who knock around ideas for the pack to do. We tell them if they want to have voting status, sign up as a committee member. It's not that political in our pack We have had parents step up,company without asking wanting to mange achievements, camping, and activities. However our CM says no to a lot of these things for reasons beyond me. We have one parent who's a type a mom. I used to think that she was going to be a challenge to work with, but in fact, she's just wanting the best fr the kids and offered to handle some things for the CM. he said no, and she want to the COmmittee and they said yes. Here's my thought as of right now. Boy Scouts is boy led and Cub Scouts is parent led. If parents see a failure in leadership they vote with their feet. As a school teacher by profession, if you aren't doing your job, then parents can assist with your departure.. I know it's a volunteer organization, but you volunteered for this position and if your struggling you need to either delegate more leadership out or step away for the sake of the pack. I am afraid we are going to lose parents because they have been turned off from helping the pack go and grow by the CM and will eventually leave because their help and presence isn't wanted or needed

Take a Deep Breath, the question Im asking is at the bottom: Commence Vent: Hey everyone. Im a DL in our pack and lately me and the WDL and myself have been getting a tad frustrated with our CM. It seems that his life, work, and (insert anything else here) is getting in the way. Hes missed 4 out of the last 5 meetings and a lot of the parents who love scouts and our pack are growing concerned. He missed the campout because of family issues. I understood that completely, and that wasn't an issue with me. I understand things come up. However, it seems to be "I have work and I cant swing it tonight" seems to be a general theme. myself and the WDL offered ourselves to be his ACMs when hes not here so a parent isnt looking around asking wheres the CM I need to give him something. We said we can help you out with retrieving awards, tracking achievements, managing things when you cant be there. His response: "Well you wouldn't be DL anymore, and Im more involved than many CMs I know. In fact, many of them dont even show up for den meetings to help out. They only show up for pack meetings. Many of them dont go on campouts or outings. Im probably one of the more involved CMs in our district." I backed off a bit and said, ok thats fine I was just thinking that maybe you could use some help in case you cant get around to doing something, or a parent needed something. One night he wasnt there, one of my bear cubs we discovered had a peanut allergy that both the parent and scout did not know about and we had to get him some medical attention. Told the CM. His response "Oh." Not my reaction when we discovered it. I called him after the meeting and never called back. His communication is less than stellar. Except to tell us when he isnt going to show up. Honestly, Im beyond being there for adults. ( I checked that at the door a long time ago. ) I just finished WB training and I loved it. However his hatred (yes) towards WB given past experiences with it has caused a bit of a rift between us that I was not trying to create. I just wanted to help him and provide for him an outlet to say "Hey, Im stuck at work or something's come up. Can you run and get this and that?" The thing that scares me is many of our parents are starting to take notice. It concerns me because I love our parents and I dont want to lose them to the disfunction that could potentially arise. Parents are growing concerned. End Vent: So for the CMs out there, how involved are you on a den/pack basis? Does our situation seem odd or the norm with CMs being there all the time versus seldom? Our committee chair is frustrated with it because they have addressed it with him, but he seems to not really take what they say to heart. Whats y'alls thoughts?

one of my challenging ticket items pending will be becoming conversational in Spanish to help the hispanic parents in our family who struggle to talk in english well and understand the scout program. My ticket will run along the lines on working on the conversational piece and the fluency will hopefully come later. Couple of other items relate to getting parents more involved and in the know such as newsletters, parent recognition items, and lesson plans to help parents with some of the more difficult items such as tying knots and parent resources. Our wood badge was pretty sizeable. Some patrols (including mine) had 7 members, but it didnt take long for us to gel.

Just got back from weekend one. Overall pretty satisfied. The first day was pretty overwhelming but our Troop Guide is great and really pushed us to focus on what a vision is and not just a list of things we can do as our tickets. The Staff (some of them) you could tell they carried themselves with this air of "elitism" but like I said a lot of people were not like that. I understand their "vision" is to see wood badge a certain way, but it is what it is. Going into the Game of life, I was a bit apprehensive because of the things I had heard about. The staff was pretty sensitive about it because they said afterwards, that they have had people almost and in some cases go to fisticuffs. Our group worked together pretty well with other patrols to make it really Win, all you can. rather than Win all you can like the other side of the room had. It was easy to pick up pretty quick. I understood the critter pride. I didnt have anything wrong with it. Some people (staff) took it to a scary pack rat level with some of their collectibles in their tent area. Im excited to work on my tickets related to getting parents more active in cubs. I used to be an Antelope... and apparently were rare.

Thanks for the ideas. Im actually just a humble den leader, but my wife has to bear the brunt of it, and I am the one who has to hear it. Thats a good point on accepting/rejecting the volunteer application. Im sure our CM has went ahead and pushed that through. He doesnt like to sit on monies and applications. I think eventually the problem will correct itself. Im not prepared to sacrifice good parents to keep them in the pack.

She has filled out a volunteer application, but I dont think she understands the work that goes into it. She wants to be on the committee, but it seems like she loves to roll her eyes, scoff, or make off hand comments to her friend who is almost like her. I would be completely happy with her dropping her son off, but Im not sure I would want him by himself. This boy likes to call kids names and is just rude. I had a little heart to heart with our boys while playing games that name calling will not be tolerated and will cause you to miss meetings and events. I cant speak for other packs, but for our pack we do not tolerate name calling and bullying. I dont know about other states, but ours (GA) takes that stuff seriously in the schools and volunteer organizations. Like I said, I havent had any long term direct interactions with this lady, but what I am hearing disturbs me because you just cannot talk to volunteers that way. Hopefully when I attend Wood Badge this weekend, they might have some suggestions to deal with these types of issues.

It doesnt bother me as much, but the moment we see a First Class Scout wielding an assault rifle is when I will probably disapprove of this. I wonder if BSA has anything to say about its logos being used probably without their permission to make money.