ScoutNut

>>"It's interesting to hear people say they don't think it's the boys responsibility or the parents to pay for advancements, do the packs in your area work the same way?"

You better have a plan B and C, and have some flexibility. While you might have the evening planned out to the second, the families in your Pack will not. Have some songs, jokes, audience participation, games, etc, ready to pull out if needed. Hopefully you planned this evening in conjunction with your den leaders and committee members and not just folks on the internet.

Not necessarily. You have boys in troops now who still move into Venturing. I think eventually, BSA will change the program to break it up into different age/grade groups. You will start with Cubs, move into Boy Scouts, then into Venturing. No overlap, just flow from one to the other as we do now from Cubs to Boy Scouts. They might even split Cubs and Venturing into 2 so there is a youngest and an oldest group. Something like - Tadpoles K-2 Cubs 3-5 Boy Scouts 6-8 Venturing 9-12 Rangers post HS age 19-21

Howdy Neighbor! DPV is a nice council. Friendly folks, and a GREAT Training staff! If you are taking up the reins of your new Tiger Den (and even if you aren't) come join us at our next Cub Scout training date! And always remember - Tigers are G-R-R-R-R-R-E-A-T !!!

>>" As the CM, can I move him up or is he too young?"

I would say a combination of dues and scout accounts should work. You simply have to do a much better job of figuring your yearly budget. Once you have all of your expenses totaled split it to determine the cost per Scout for their dues. Fundraising can have a portion of the profit go to Scout accounts. Scout accounts can be used to pay dues, camp fees, special activity fees, etc. If the Scout does not have it in his acct, he pays out of pocket, or does not do the activity. The Troop should not cover things like merit badge class fees, extra charges for low-cope course, etc. Make sure the boys realize that the more they fundraise the more both they and the Troop will have to work with, and the less they will have to pay out of their pocket in the end.

I looked at Fast Tracks, and I was not impressed with it (still not). I have never used it. What I do is sit my parents down and explain the family aspect of the program to them. I remind and encourage. We do some requirements and some electives in the den, but most are left to the family. We also have FUN! Most (not necessarily all) of my boys earned their rank award every year. I have never had a problem with retention. Even with the boys that did not earn their rank award. Maybe because I never made them feel that receiving that bit of cloth was the most important thing ever. It should be interesting to see if BSA really gets the numbers they are expecting from this.

>>"At least it's far enough off I can use the current books for the Webelos for the next year, maybe two."

See the new Cub Scout program here - http://www.scouting.org/CubScouts%202010.aspx BSA is going with Fast Tracks, and is replacing the fun, changing, monthly themes with the 12 Core Values (1 per month).

I am curious as to why this was not questioned at the time. If all of the other Scouts turned in a signed MB card, why was this Scout not asked where his was? When all of the other Scouts received their badges, and he did not, why is it this Scout did not immediately ask the Troop Advancement Chair about it? Why did the Scout wait to question this?

The Kindergarten Cubs (both male and female) are registered under Learning For Life because that is the only way that BSA can legaly register kindergarteners. They can not be registered in the current BSA Cub Scout program because they do not meet the entrance requirements. The councils are also using some variation of (if not the exact program) the LFL Seeker program for Kindergarten age youth.

Glad to know I was not the only Scouter to notice the disparity there. I asked my son to read the article on page 8, no other lead in, just asked him to read it and let me know his thoughts. His response was "says the fat man!" pointing to the picture of Mr Mazzuca. I must say, that was my first impression upon reading the article also. Including pictures of overweight BSA executives in these articles about overweight Scouters was not a smart marketing move!

I suppose using that criteria any level is "voluntary". If a CO came along who did not want to start their Cub Scouts until 2nd or 3rd grade, I am sure they would be able to. LDS does not use the "regular" scouting program. They have adapted it to their own uses, as any CO is allowed to do. Scouting is used as their Young Men's Priesthood Program. Boys move along, at ALL levels, based on their age. LDS boys become official members of their church, and become a Cub Scout, on their 8th birthday. That is why they do not have Tiger dens. Boys under 8 are not yet church members. In all other "regular" Cub Scout Packs, the only reason not to have a Tiger den is if they are simply unable to recruit any in a particular year.

>>"It will be a voluntary program just like Tiger Cubs currently is."

If you have read the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, then you know how BSA states is should be done. "The Boy Scout is tested. A Scout may be tested on rank requirements by his patrol leader, Scoutmaster, assistant Scoutmaster, a troop committee member, or a member of his troop. The Scoutmaster maintains a list of those qualified to give tests and to pass candidates." This seems to me to be pretty clear. No distinction is made between testing a Scout on a requirement for Tenderfoot, or Eagle. Both are handled the same way. Your SM is well within his rights to limit who is allowed to sign off on requirements. If your question is because you do not agree with his choice, that is best taken up with your SM at the next Troop Committee meeting.

Please post a link to the RTF formated Workbook. The only form that I can find for the Leadership Service Project Wookbook, #512-927, is a PDF.

>>"I felt this way about our tiger den. We had a den leader and an assistant(ME) and we really didn't have a clue as to what we were doing and I think it showed. Having a lion den would have helped us acclimate ourselves to the den leader position.">"Having a Lion program available only lets the boys join IF they want to. It introduces them to scouting and lets them decide if they want to continue."

>>"If the gay person in question is not wearing makeup, girls clothes, or using a pronounced lithp, I wouldn't take any shots. But if they combine any of the above I have no choice."

>>"It is also a plus because you have an established tiger den in the spring. And possibly already have a tiger den leader."

"OR is age 11" A 12 year old is past the age of 11. A 12 year old kindergartener can join a Boy Scout Troop if his parents approve.

BSA does not specifically define community service. From the American Heritage Dictionary - "Services volunteered by individuals or an organization to benefit a community or its institutions." Weather or not "helping with new student orientation" can be considered depends on a number of things. What exactly will he be doing for orientation? What BSA requirement does he want to use the service for? Has his SM (or MB Counselor) approved the service?

The joining requirements are listed on the the BSA Youth Application. Nothing "ambigous' or "gray" about them - CUB SCOUTS - Tiger CubMust be under the age of 8, have completed kindergarten or be in the first grade, or be age 7. Cub ScoutMust have completed first grade but not completed third grade, or be age 8 or 9. Webelos ScoutMust have completed third grade but not completed fifth grade, or be age 10 but not yet 11 1⁄2. BOY SCOUT - Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade AND is at least 10 years old OR is age 11 OR has earned the Arrow of Light Award AND is at least 10 years old but has not reached age 18. VARSITY TEAM - A male youth must be at least 14 years of age and not yet 18. VENTURING CREW / SEA SCOUT SHIP - I am at LEAST 14 years of age AND have completed the eighth grade OR am 15 years of age and not yet 21. I really do not see what your confusion is about. This "mud" looks perfectly clear to me. I also do not understand your objection to Varsity being considered high adventure. Per BSA, the Varsity program focus is high adventure/sports for older boys. Why do you think this is not true? Again, the "mud" looks pretty clear.

>>"As stated, I turned in my application to my DC, and yes there was money involved although I cannot remember how much."

>>"Is there a body that will review this train wreck & assess responsibility?"

I would not assume that your council will allow her to move up early. A few years back, GSUSA changed the structure of the levels. They went from age and/or grade with a flex year in between levels to strict by grade levels. Are the 5-6 other 5th graders brand new to Scouting? Or have they been in a 4th grade Junior Troop? If they are not new Scouts, what happened to their old Troop? Are their any other Junior Troops in your area? What about the girls in your daughters class in school? Are any of them in Scouts? It sounds to me like you have valid concerns about moving your daughter into a program that she might struggle in. I would also question the leaders motives for pushing for it. To me it sounds like they are doing it for themselves (their very own GG!), rather than doing what is best for your daughter. If it was me, I would find her a Junior Troop. Talk to the GS School Coordinator for your daughter's school. Also talk to your Service Unit Manager (SUM) about available Junior Troops. Good Luck!