ScoutNut

Sorry, I can't see how a visit to an amusement park is in any way a Scout event. Family included or not. Somehow I can't see your council approving a money-earning permit to earn money to go to an amusement park. Of course stranger things have happened. There are a number of interesting State Parks in the vicinity of Crystal River that would be better for a Scout activity and for promoting Patrols. How do you plan on keeping a patrol together at an amusement park? Boys will want to go on the rides that THEY like and not stand in line for an hour with their Patrol for a ride that they are not interested in (or makes them throw up). Are "circus tents" the only kind your Troop has? Don't families have their own tents?

Welcome! What you are doing is basically starting up a brand new Pack. Hard, but possible if you can get the rest of the families to buy into the program. Here is an overview at the BSA National site of training - http://www.scouting.org/Training/Adult.aspx If you look around the site you will find lots of info besides just the online training. You will also be able to find your local council contact info and web site by putting your zip code into the "Find a Local Council" (options right above blue bar) page. Getting together with all of the folks who have volunteered for your Pack (Committee Chair, Den Leaders, Asst Den Leaders, etc) is a good idea. You are all in the same boat so, get to know each other, and start off right as a supportive group working together for the boys. Signing up for your council training together is another good idea. You will be there to support each other, and all get on the same page as to how a Pack should be run. Ask LOTS of questions. Although you can only be registered as the Cubmaster (CM), since you will also be doing the job of Webelos den leader, you really need to take the Cub Scout Leader Specific training for BOTH Webelos DL and CM. Since you can't do them both at once, I suggest you take the Webelos Specific with your Asst Den Leader first. NOTE - You are not restricted to taking only the training offered in your District. Check out the training calendar for the entire council and pick dates that work for you and the other leaders. You might have to travel further, but getting the training ASAP is important. Another thing you will need to do is find out who owns your Pack - your Charter Organization - and who is listed as their Charter Organization Representative (COR). You and your Committee Chair (CC) will need to contact them to see what kind of a relationship there is with the Pack, how/if you can help it improve, and what, if anything, they are willing to do to help their Pack succeed. Find out from your DE if your Pack has a Unit Commissioner (UC). You UC is a knowledgeable Scouter (adult BSA volunteer), and can help with ideas, contacting your CO/COR, and many more things. A good UC is a mentor to your Pack and a contact with your council folks. Read thru your Webelos son's Handbook. That should give you at least an idea of what the Webelos program is. Thank you for volunteering. There is a lot of work in front of you and the other leaders, but you can all do it. Remember the basic Cub Scout mantras - Do Your Best - Keep It Simple Make It Fun !! Have FUN!

You don't need to use Internet Advancement in order to have your advancement appear on ScoutNet. The Pack turns in the Advancement Report to their council, the council enters it into ScoutNet. This is only for the restricted items like rank award badges, and not for other awards like belt loops. Now, if the council is not up to date, that is another story. You stated that he had his activity badges and his Webelos Rank Award. If he has these on his uniform, doesn't that prove he earned them? By looking at the activity badges he has on his uniform, you should be able to figure out what he still needs to earn. Talk to the boy (not the dad). If he states he has a partial in one of the missing badges it should be fairly easy for him to remember what he did for it. Otherwise he starts the badge from scratch. If he has all the needed activity badges then I would talk to the boy to see if he has completed any of the Troop activity, and den campout/hike, AOL requirements. Once again, a simple talk with the boy should be able to settle the issue. Are you planning on covering any of AOL requirements with your 5th grade Webelos? Your new Scout would be completing them with the rest of the den. So, unless you are assuming that he bought his shirt recently, second hand, with all of the insignia already on it, I really don't see this as a big problem. Check out his insignia, talk to the Scout, run your Webelos program for this year, help him make up whatever he is missing. Everything should be fine.

Shortridge, on the Aquatics page of the G2SS, in the Safety Afloat section (which is above the section for kayaking), it states - "For Cub Scouts: Canoeing, kayaking, rowing, and rafting for Cub Scouts (including Webelos Scouts) are to be limited to council/district events on flat water ponds or controlled lake areas free of powerboats and sailboats. Prior to recreational canoeing and kayaking, Cub Scouts are to be instructed in basic handling skills and safety practices." So, yes it does contradict itself, however it is still pretty clear on the subject of Webelos kayaking. Twil444, No, you can not just "take a group of Webalos (Webelos) kayaking" wherever you wish. It MUST be on flat water and it MUST be part of a Council/District event.

OK, maybe I'm just not getting it. Do you have one, mass, District/area wide registration event, with flyers distributed listing the District/area registration event info, and all of the area units contact info? Or, does each unit have it's own registration event, separate from everyone else, and these controversial flyers have unit contact info and unit registration event info, for each unit in the area? If it is the former, then late flyer distribution should not be more beneficial to one unit over any other. If it is the latter, then contact your DE about having the other Pack's in the area, including yours, attend this Pack's registration event. Or perhaps have the DE do another flyer for this one school and you, and the other units, can add extra registration events to it. IF there is such nasty competition among units, it might be better to switch to one mega event that every unit attends. I still think you should be pushing recruiting on an ongoing basis all year round. If you have boys in these schools have them tell their friends about your Pack.

What does your DE have to say about the whole thing? Was the Pack at the recruitment event today? Did the DE speak with the folks from that Pack? Flyers with old recruitment dates on them aren't going to be much use to anyone. The listing of area Packs and Troops on the flyer might be helpful, but not just to the one Pack. You do realize that you are not limited to ONLY the District recruitment dates? Peer to peer recruiting is one of the best tools. Have a bring a friend event. Have a Pack recruiting picnic, Raingutter Regatta, rocket shoot, etc. Is there a school that most of the boys in your Pack attend? Work with the Principal to allow your boys to wear their uniforms to school. Make up your own flyer and have the school pass it out. Stand outside the doors and put stickers on each boy coming out with your Pack info and info about it's recruiting event. Advertise your Pack's recruiting event in the community event area of your local paper (usually this is free), and in the newsletters of your local churches

As is the case with Calico's Lodge, our Ordeal's are done at our OA Work Weekends. None of the adults that go EVER just sit around reading books, or helicopter around their son (they never even see him). They are busy working their butts off! I have never heard of parents (OA members or not) that drive their son up to camp and just drop them off. The parents that drive, stay, and work. We also do a car pool of sorts. If you are driving and can bring extra boys, then you mark it on your reservation form. If you are a boy who needs a ride you mark that on your reservation form. The registrar matches up boys with drivers from their area. So, in essence, the driver becomes the temporary guardian for all of the boys he/she is driving.

Crew21 the GSUSA membership process is not like BSA's. There are no charter organizations in GSUSA. Heather has no say in weather or not this girl will be a Girl Scout. She already is a Senior Girl Scout. As I mentioned, Heather can decide not to accept this girl into the Troop. However, there are some GSUSA Councils that do not allow Troops to limit their membership, and if Heather is in one of those she may have to fight to ban this girl. Heather, first you stated this girl said she had made a poor choice in getting pregnant, then you state she is glamorizing her pregnancy. I don't think you can have it both ways. And I don't think you need to "constantly" beat her, or the other girls, over the head with the fact that she made a poor decision. Actually, I doubt that many high school girls would make a conscious decision to become pregnant. They are simply young, stupid, think they are invincible, and that things like that only happen to other people. You talk about her not taking "personal responsibility", yet you state that this girl is going thru with the pregnancy, and keeping her child. Wow, seems to me you can't get much better at taking responsibility for your actions than that. You have a young woman, 15-16 years old, in her first or second year of high school, who is taking on the responsibility to feed, clothe, raise a child, and still go to school and try to make something of her life, and her child's. If this is not enough, how would you suggest she take "personal responsibility"? You said that you have a Troop of Cadette and Senior Scouts. At this age, the Troop is THEIRS, not yours. Why is it only the adults that are deciding this? The girls have a right to be involved in this decision too. Have you discussed this with them? What did the girls have to say when she told them she was pregnant? What did she tell them? Seems like this would have been the perfect time for the girls to have a discussion about this very pertinent "social issue". Heather, I am not trying to make you the "bad guy". I am trying to help you see your role as an adviser to these girls. What you do here WILL make an impression on them. I also do not understand what "answer" you are asking your council to "go further up the line" to get. Is it that you are trying to get her membership in GSUSA pulled? I really hope that is not the case. Why not simply tell her to contact your SUM for other options, such as a different Troop, starting a new one, or moving to Juliette?

Can a pregnant teen still be a Girl Scout - Of course she can. She is female and under 18. Being pregnant does not magically change your birth date and make you an adult. Neither does it make you a freak to be shunned, or harassed. This poor, brave, young woman, needs Scouting more than most. Also, it is NOT YOUR decision who watches her child and when. Punishing her because you do not approve is very wrong. If you can not set the example for your girls, and stop being judgmental, and welcome her as the sister Scout she is, then I suggest you be honest with her and her mother, and give them contact info to find a different Troop.

The question here is similar to that in another thread. The boy will be a 4th grade, 10 year old, 2nd year Webelos Scout. As such he will not have completed the AOL requirement to be an active Webelos for 6 months since his 10th birthday, by the time the rest of his 2nd year (5th grade) Webelos den mates cross to Boy Scouts at their Pack's B&G. The answer is to simply keep him active in his Pack until he reaches 10.5 years old. Since he will be 11 before the next school year starts (Aug - Sept), and it is 6 months from Feb to Aug, that can only be another 1 or 2 months. When he has completed all of the requirements for AOL, including being 10.5 years old, your Pack can have a nice ceremony for him, and he can cross to a Boy Scout Troop at that time. Who knows, maybe there will be some other boys in his den who will not be ready until March, or April. There is no need at all to have him put in another year as a Cub Scout.

Yes, you have said it was hypothetical. And yet, you have also said that this is about a very specific woman currently in your Troop. Yes, you said you had no issue. Yes, you said it made no sense to "publicize this womans dirty laundry". Then you put in the qualifier, BUT. You also then stated you don't feel comfortable letting this woman be involved, or interact with, the boys at her house or on campouts. At that point it stopped being hypothetical, and it certainly seems you do have an issue. As to the setting policy issue, since I do not see this as being simply a hypothetical issue for you, it sounds to me like you are pushing to have every parent in your Troop go thru a background check with the results publicized. Aside from this being a rather bad idea, as an ASM this is not your call to make. This is the decision of the Charter Organization, and it's COR, with possible input from the CC. As stated, there is a reason BSA does not publicize the results to everyone. The concern I had at your being a relatively new parent in the Troop has nothing to do with your ability to pose a question or have an opinion be warranted. Asinine as it may be, the feeling that I have is that, after only a bit over 1 year in the Troop, you don't know these folks very well, yet you already have problems with your SM, CC, Charter Organization, and now this parent. If a problem is discovered with an adult in your unit, the very FIRST thing you should do is to contact your CO. They might very well have discussed the problem with the adult involved and have come to a private solution. Especially if the CO has not made it known that the person is restricted in any way. Trust that if a person was denied membership for any extremely serious reason, your CO would have also taken steps to restrict this person's contact with their youth. If you have any questions about that, once again, CONTACT YOUR CO. Practice proper Youth Protection procedures at all times. Do not go off half-cocked on your own. Do not spread stories (true or not).

Smithgall, why is it you are talking about setting the policies for your Troop about who participates and how? From your posts you are only a relatively new (1.5 year) ASM, not the SM, CC, or the COR. The reason you had no knowledge of this incident is that BSA does not make a practice of announcing to everyone the results of their background checks. Negative results are given to the Charter Organization (usually the IH or COR), who had originally approved the person for membership, and the person requesting to be a registered volunteer. The potential volunteer is allowed to give any explanations they feel are necessary. Then it is the decision of the IH/COR and the SE weather to allow the person membership. Prospective adult members provide quite a lot of information on their application, including references. It is the responsibility of the CO to check out these references before they sign and approve the application. If this is not being done then it is something to be brought up to your COR. It is up to the Charter Organization who/what they inform about problems with a persons application, and what kind of participation they will allow this person. It is not up to other parents or an ASM, to dig up, and spread it around to the Troop. If you have questions you should contact your Charter Organization. It was after all, THEIR call. It is NEVER appropriate to simply spread rumors.

Everyone in the Pack is going as the same thing? Is this a theme type thing? If so, what is your Pack's theme? Ghosts would be easy to do. Vampire or Zombie Scouts would also be easy. All you would need is makeup. They could wear their uniform shirts. Robots - lots of silver foil. How about individual cardboard box cars. Small and light enough so that they can wear/carry them the whole time. They can race each other as they walk, and the adults can wear T-shirts with PIT CREW written on them and carry oil cans and air pumps.

Get to your local Roundtable and do a hard push at both the Cub and Boy Scout side. Ask for names and contact info then and there. Contact Day Camp staff, and Cub Summer Camp Staff. Get a list of your Council's certified rangemasters and lifeguards. Go down the list and call them all until you get commitments. Contact Commissioners and Trainers. Contact former/current Camp Directors and Program Directors. Start MUCH earlier next year!

>>"Assuming that you completed 4th grade in June then you should be eligible to receive your AOL in December."

So there should be "special circumstances" where the requirements for an award are reduced? And those "special circumstances", for you, would be that you have worked hard and deserve it when YOU want it, not when the rules say you have EARNED it. Sorry, but neither you, your den leader, or your Cubmaster, can change the requirements for any BSA award. Only BSA can do that. The requirements for AOL that apply to you state to be active in your Webelos den for at least 6 months since becoming 10 years old. That means that you can not CORRECTLY earn your AOL before mid April. Since you state you have earned your Webelos Rank Award, and have completed all requirements for AOL (except for one), I am sure that you know the Scout Law by heart, and what it means. Perhaps you should consider what the Scout Law means when it states that "a Scout is Trustworthy, and Obedient".

Here is the pdf form from the BSA National site - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33826.pdf If you do an online search for pdf to word you can find a number of free sites that will convert it.

From all that you have posted it sounds to me like the SM is one of the main problems here. One of the main jobs of the SM is to train the boys in leadership. Does not sound like he is not doing such a great job with the Scribe/PL. He has let this Scout use him to skirt the SPL (on several occasions), and he has let him overstep the bounds of his jobs without consequence. He has also let this Scout be given 2 jobs when it does not appear he is doing either one very well. If he was such an officious Scribe, doing things he had no business doing, why was he left in that position? Why was he given the position of Patrol Leader? You said that it was this Scouts idea to "spy" on this Troop. Are you sure of that? It sounds to me like the SM could have very well initiated this Scouts idea. He very definitely encouraged him, and, once again, he did not tell him to go to the SPL, or even tell the SPL about it after the fact. Also, it does not sound like the SM, or anyone else in the Troop, has discussed with this Scout his expected behaviors while at the other Troop. You are just assuming that he will behave badly while at this other Troop, behave badly when he returns, and yet are doing nothing to head this all off. The only reason that I can see for this Scout to take a month off from your Troop is if he and the SM are planning that he pretend that he is joining this Troop. That is not good. Your CC and COR should have a bit of a sit down with the SM, this Scout, and possibly the SPL. Explain that it is NOT a "spy" mission. That the Troop and/or this Scout are perfectly able to visit other units, but it should be done respectfully, truthfully, and completely aboveboard. Personally, I like the idea of the SM contacting the SM of the other Troop, and the SPL contacting the SPL of the other Troop to let them know that this Scout (why can't the SPL go with him?) will be visiting for a few meetings. There is no reason for enmity, and no reason to miss meetings in their own Troop.

To me it sounds like a sort of District Committee meeting, however I would give your council a call and ask. Rotating Roundtable nights is a bad idea. To hard to plan around and no one will remember when they are. A much better solution is to rotate who goes from your unit. Switch off between the SM and the CC. That way both the Troop meetings, and the Roundtable meetings, are always covered.

I'm surprised. I did not think an LDS chartered unit had the option to have a regular, all ages Troop. Buffalo's GB training sounds like it might be a good model for your boys to follow. You might also consider talking to your District Training Chair, and your District BS Roundtable Commissioner, to see if you could get some experienced SM's to come and help you with it.

Your older posts stated that you had been called to be the Varsity Team Coach. From your signature, and current comments, it seems that you now have been moved to the SM position for the Boy Scout Troop. Having only 12 and 13 year old boys can be difficult. Especially if they did not get any leadership training at the 11 year old level. As others have said, if you have not done TLT with the boys you should do it as soon as possible. If you have already done it, do it again. Make sure you use the TLT position description cards. Mentor them, give them clear comments, help them to see what/how they should handle things. When they freeze up, give them a nudge in the right direction. If the SPL and the PL's say they don't know what their jobs are, and as you state, you have given them their respective Handbooks, I would suggest to you that perhaps they have not read them. When they tell you they don't know have them bring out their SPL/PL Handbook and see what the Handbook has to say. Do a SM Minute at the end of a meeting reminding all of the boys of the Scout Law. In particular that a Scout is Courteous and Obedient to his leaders, both adult and youth. Have a roses and thorns session with the PLC (SPL & PL's) after every Troop meeting. Talk about what worked and what didn't at the meeting and why. Edited to add that I notice your Council/District is holding a Patrol Leader Development Training in mid November. That might be a good training to send your youth leaders to. (This message has been edited by scoutnut)

I have a few questions for you - You say that this is an established Pack, not a brand new one. Yet you said that out of 35 Cub Scouts in your Pack, 31 are brand new to Scouting. How is that possible? How were 31 brand new boys, spread across the grades I assume, recruited at one time? How is it that whoever recruited you (DD?) gave you no information about the Pack you were joining? What happened to this Pack? If there is no local Lions Club, who really holds the charter? Who has been signing the charter and paying the charter fees? Getting a copy of the latest charter and contacting the person that is listed as your Institutional Head is a good idea. This should be done as soon as possible. Training - You said that you will be taking Cubmaster training and BALOO on the same day? BALOO is an all day course (8:30AM - 5PM), there will not be time to take both. Even if both were held at the same place I would still not recommend it. I would suggest you have at least 2 (more is definitely better) of your parents take BALOO while you and your den leaders take Cub Leader Specific training.

Our church/school uses The Manna Group. Lots of restaurants, big box stores, clothing stores, various retail/speciality stores, theaters, etc. It is an easy way to help both yourself and the organization. Great for birthday gift cards, and I know they do a big business around the holidays. If you go with scrip fundraising, I would check out area companies. That way you can get gift cards from both local businesses and national chains.

Get trained! There is Commissioner Fast Start online and UC training should be offered by your District Commissioner. Purchase the Commissioner manuals and read thru them. Offer helpful suggestions sparingly. Do not come across as being the only one who knows anything or the unit savior. Get to know your DE. Get to know your DC, and your specific ADC.

I don't know if I would say she got "pulled in". Looks to me like its more ran, and jumped in the middle. From her posts it is clear to me that there are some big personality issues between her the CC. She has stated that everyone is fully trained, however from some of the comments in her posts it sure does not sound like it. It sounds like this Troop has more problems than just their budget. But, I agree with the CC, the Troop is in a convoluted, financial mess, they need to get a decent budget worked out, and they need to do some serious fundraising. Charging families for every little thing will not work.