ScoutNut

Your DE has no say so in where and/or when a den in your unit meets. Your CO (Charter Organization) is supposed to supply a meeting place, however, a den is not obligated to utilize it. A den leader's home is the traditional place for den meetings to take place. Nothing wrong with it. With 2 boys and 2+ adults (spouse is also at home) there is no youth protection issue, so why were you against this arrangement?

I agree with Stosh. While the PL might be in charge of his Patrol, it is not his job to follow them around 24/7, making sure they do no get themselves in trouble. If the SM is to remove the PL because he is ultimately responsible, and he did not know what his patrol was up to, then this should be followed all the way up the "food chain". The SPL, SM, CC, and COR should all be relieved of their positions because none of them were aware of what their Scouts were doing. Silly, you bet. However, by doing this the SM has set a precedence, and the same "punishment" should be metted out to everyone responsible.

bearshark - our opinions on weather or not this is right has no bearing on the fact that this is the way it is. You Scout just has to learn how to deal with it. The SCOUT should talk to his SM about a Scoutmaster assigned leadership project to help the Troop. This can substitute for the POR requirement.

First of all, it is not the Cubmaster's job to deal with the financial side of the Pack. That is the job of the Committee Chair. Pack and Den dues are two entirely different animals. Pack dues are generally included with the money earned from Pack fundraisers, put into a Pack bank account, and used to pay for, at least, yearly registration costs, recharter costs, rank award badges, immediate recognition totem/beads, elective beads/arrowheads/compass points, Webelos colors, and Webelos Activity Pins. Depending on what is in the Pack budget, and what they can afford, Pack monies can also be used to purchase other Cub award patches (Leave No Trace, Belt Loops/Pins, Cub Outdoor, etc), participation/fun patches from Pack or Den activities, entry fees for outside Pack level activities, neckerchiefs, handbooks, slides, Pinewood Derby kits, Pack camping trips, Day Camp, Summer Camp, and even leader training. It depends on what is in the Pack budget. Den dues are used to purchase supplies for den meetings (paper, paint, crayons, string, glue, tape, poster board, fabric, wood, etc), entry fees for Den outings, patches from an outing venue (state park patch when the den goes there for an outing), a den party, and pretty much anything else that the Pack does not pay for. Every Pack handles Pack and Den dues differently. Some Packs include an amount for Den dues in the amount they charge for Pack dues. Packs that do this usually cover den expenses up to a certain amount. Some Packs will keep the den money in with the Pack money and require receipts in order to reimburse the den leader. Some Packs will simply give each den a specific amount at the beginning of the year. Some Packs will collect only Pack dues and leave Den dues up to the individual den leaders to deal with on their own. My Pack does not charge Pack dues as our popcorn fundraiser covers all Pack expenses for the year. However, we do not budget anything for den expenses. Den leaders are on their own to decide if, and how much den dues they will charge. While the Pack will pay for just about any/all patches for the boys, and we have a group supply cabinet for basic stuff, special materials for den projects, den outing costs, and other den only expenses would come out of Den dues. I do not charge my Tigers anything because generally the Tiger Team running the meeting provides all needed supplies. Some of the other den leaders charge about $10-$15 per boy per year (which works out to around $0.50 a meeting). Left over den monies are usually spent on an end of the year den party (ice cream cones, pizza, or even just Popsicles). I am surprised that your Pack does not have a policy on dues that is known to all of it's leaders. Usually the Committee Chair spells that all out as part of the yearly program and budget planning Pack Leaders meeting. I would suggest you talk to your Committee Chair and Treasurer to see what is included in your Pack's budget and how they handle Den dues. Then if the den leader is handling it incorrectly, your Committee Chair can talk to him/her about the correct procedure.

Jim - Just a caution - I would accept a Tiger Partner who is NOT a parent or guardian, only in an emergency situation. BSA stipulates on their Youth Application that if the Tiger Partner who is listed on the application does not live with the Tiger Scout that they must register as an Adult Volunteer with BSA and fill out an application so that a background check can be preformed. Don't limit your thinking to Scouting being mainly for dads & sons. Very often the moms are way more involved. You should give a den contact list (names, address, email, phone) to every Tiger Team in your den. That makes it easier for the den members to contact each other when necessary.

When the boy was signed up, someone was also signed up to be the Tiger Adult Partner. That Adult Partner is usually one of the parents. Hopefully, at registration it was explained to the parents that the Adult Partner must attend everything with their Tiger. At your meeting this Wednesday, again explain to your Tiger Partners that they are 1/2 of a Tiger Team, who will be doing everything (including games, songs and skits!) together for the next year. I usually explain that while one parent signed up as Tiger Partner, that I have no problem if they switch off between parents as necessary. As long as their Tiger has one of them there as his Tiger Partner. My Tiger meetings have been on Saturday mornings, so I have had parents switch off because of work, sports activities for siblings, doctor appointments, etc. I have also had them bring siblings along. Usually they brought stuff to keep the sib busy, but having a good supply of coloring pages and crayons handy helps too. Don't forget to include the sibling in activities if possible. It helps to get them (boys and girls) excited about Scouts too. Don't forget SHARED LEADERSHIP! Have each of your Tiger Teams sign up to plan and run one of the next 6 den meetings. Then repeat with the 6 den meetings after that, etc! By March, or April, you should have a real good idea of who you want to be your Assistant Den Leader next year!

Tiger, Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts can camp, just not as a single den. I would guess that most boys entering Cub Scouts have never camped, much less backpacked. Your son is very lucky! If you want to encourage your Pack to do Pack Family Campouts you should consider taking B(asic) A(dult) L(eader) O(utdoor) O(rientation) Training. As the trained BALOO leader in your Pack, you can plan and conduct Pack campouts. Check the training calendar on your local Council web site for BALOO training along with Cub Scout Leader Specific training. Have FUN and remember - TIGERS ARE G-R-R-R-R-R-E-A-T !!!

Not to mention the discussion of weather or not there was interest among the Pack families for such an event, if the Pack families could afford it, and how much, if anything, the Pack could afford to pay to reduce the per person cost (which for a "large overnight experience" can be VERY pricey). Not much use mandating that the Pack will do a certain event/activity, and then have no one actually show/sign up. No, there isn't any voting as such, but there is a lot of discussion about ideas, ways, means, and improvements on past things, as a Pack's registered adults work TOGETHER at their monthly Pack Leaders Meeting.

My question was because, you stated he was a Wolf who was moved up to Bears. If he was Wolf aged (7 or 8 year old), he would not be able to earn AOL when the rest of the den. He would not meet the minimum age (or grade) requirement. However, since he is turning 9 there should be no problem with his registration as a Bear, and no problem with him meeting the age requirements for AOL and Boy Scouts with the rest of your den. Explain the Buddy System to everyone. Make sure mom and daughter are clear that mom is her daughters buddy. In Cub Scouts, there are no camping experiences that are "just for boys". Even as a Webelos, BSA Guide to Safe Scouting states that the Cub Scout must be under the supervision of a parent, guardian, or a parent-approved adult on all campouts.

>>"My concern is the male, female deal. Trying to closely watch any miss behaven going on. C.Y.A. don't you know!"

You asked for an official reference - Boy Scout Requirements book (from 2009 at least as far back as 2000) - Introduction to Merit Badges - "Any Boy Scout may earn any merit badge at any time. You don't need to have had rank advancement to be eligible." This can also be found in the online version of the 2009 printing of that book - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx Hope this is "official" enough for your DE.

First of all, your COR needs to recruit more committee members. Doing the jobs of Advancement, Treasurer, and CC is doing 2 jobs to many. What are these disagreements about? What decisions are being challenged? Could the DL's have a point about the decisions being wrong for the Pack? Every single registered adult in your Pack needs to get fully trained for their position(s) NOW. That includes the COR taking training for both COR and CC. You have to ALL have the same vision for the Pack, know the BSA rules and regs, and learn to work TOGETHER. If you start waving the big stick of who has authority over who, and entrench everyone in the Us vs Them mode, your Pack will self destruct. Contact your Unit Commissioner to act as an impartial voice during your decision discussions.

Also, keep in mind that for any activity pin done at home, unless the Webelos Den Leader has given the Scout permission to work on a specific badge at home, and given the parents permission to sign off on that specific badge, the Webelos should be bringing his work into the den meeting to be approved and signed off by his den leader. As for the Scout Oath and Law, once signed off it is done. There should be no re-testing. This is Cub Scouts where the defining criteria is still "Do Your Best". What you can do however, is to do a lot of repetition. Repetition, using a skill, makes it easier for the boys to retain what they have learned. Incorporate the Scout Oath and Law into your den openings and/or closings every meeting.

Unless the parent is one of the den leaders, or has a specific job to do at the meeting, there is no reason for the parents to stay for a Bear den meeting. If the parent is a den leader, and has no option but to bring a tagalong, then they should also bring things with to keep the tagalong busy. The sibling can be set up in an area away from the den to work on homework, drawing, playing a handheld game, reading a book, whatever. If you want to include the sib in any games/activities that is up to you, but keep in mind that they might not be age appropriate for her.

Just curious - Had the SM signed off on his POR? If he did, why did he if he was not sure it had been completed? For the 6 months he spent as PL, before he became an "official" DC, was he Star or 1st Class?

There is no need for "drilling" This is not the army. Repetition is the best way to learn something. Do the Promise in a repeat-after-me manner (using the Cub Scout Sign) in every den opening ceremony. Eventually it will become second nature to them. Remember, the criteria for any Cub Scout award is "Do Your Best", and every Scouts best is different. Games also help to reinforce the words. A relay race between the Tiger Teams to see who can put the words to the Promise and/or Law together correctly is fun. Make bookmarks with the Promise and Law, and decorate them with leaf rubbings. Put the Promise and Law on index cards to be put on the Tiger Teams fridge at home.

Whoops, must be getting old and blind. I completely blew over the Bobcat part. Tigers are allowed to receive their Totem before they receive their Bobcat badge. They earn their Totem by completing 3 (real easy) parts of the Bobcat. It gets them started off and enthusiastic about their first year as a Scout. It should be explained in the front, Parent section, of the Tiger Handbook.

I think that your problem is in your terminology. When a Tiger learns the Cub Scout Motto, Sign, and Salute, he has earned his Tiger TOTEM. The Totem is the paw shaped immediate recognition emblem for Tigers, and is worn on his right uniform pocket. This is where his white (family), orange (den), and black (go-see-it), Tiger achievement beads go. After a Tiger has earned his Tiger rank badge, he is be awarded the square, yellow, Tiger TRACK beads for completed Tiger electives. A Tiger receives one Tiger Track bead for every 10 electives he has completed. The Tiger TRACK beads also go on the Tiger TOTEM. I hope this helps to clear things up.

The Tiger den is SUPPOSED to be run using SHARED LEADERSHIP. See rrelaljrksw's post above. The Tiger Partner attends everything and does everything with their Tiger Scout. Including RUNNING TIGER DEN MEETINGS! For the Tiger year, the den leader is mainly a coordinator, and a fill-in. You stated that you intend to be at every Tiger den meeting. If so, then why pressure the college mom into taking it all on right now? Make sure no one bails on the next Tiger den meeting. Then have each Tiger Team sign up to run one of the next 9 meetings. Have them also put down which one of the Den Requirements, or Go-See-It's, they will be doing - no electives unless as a secondary activity. The Tiger Team in charge also does the opening den flag ceremony (you can demonstrate one the first meeting). You can provide a game or a song, and also a Bobcat requirement or 3-4, for them to do each week. Put together a Tiger Den Calendar showing all of the den meetings, who is in charge of the meeting, and what they will be covering so that everyone knows. At the end of the 9 meetings, the Tigers should have all earned their Totem, Bobcat, be just about finished with their Tiger, be much more comfortable with the whole Scouting process, and you should have a REAL good idea of who you can talk into taking over the den as leader.

Funny, I did a search on Google for BSA fund raising and the link for the BSA Unit Money-Earning Application was at the top of the list. From the BSA Insignia Guide - "Clause 6. The official uniforms are intended primarily for use in connection with Scouting activities as defined by the national Executive Board, and their use may be approved by the local council executive board for council events or activities under conditions consistent with the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America." From the BSA Guide to Safe Scouting - Unit Fund-Raisers - "6. Compliance requirements: 1. Check local statutes regarding solicitation rules and permits. 2. A Unit Fund-raising Permit must be obtained from the local council service center." On the BSA National web site under Pack Budget Plan - "Money-Earning Projects Except for council-sponsored product sales, all other money-earning projects require the submission of the Unit Money-Earning Application, No. 34427, to the local council. To ensure conformity with all Scouting standards on money earning, leaders should be familiar with the eight Guides to Money-Earning Projects listed on the back of the application, at the end of this planning guide, and in the financial record books." Last, but not least, the Unit Money-Earning Application is one of the links found on the "Scouting Forms From the National Council" page. Links to this page can be found throughout the BSA National Web site, and on every Council web site I have ever visited. Seems pretty visible to me.

>>"Why do they need any approval? Is this a fundraiser for he unit or is this service to their charter partner?">"They ask the troop to help in exchange for $$. ">"Similarly, I don't think that Scouting would be against its any of its members raising money for an organization that charters one or more of its units"

As others have stated it is not BSA policy. However, a unit is NOT required to take any and every application it receives. Charter Organizations can make additional requirements for their unit's members (must be the same religion as the church CO, no girls in a Crew, etc). A CO can also dismiss a member at any time for any reason (or none). It is a pity that the Pack felt that way. It is easy enough for Tigers to make up any missed den activities as a family. I had a Tiger one year who missed most of our den meetings due to his ongoing doctor appointments clashing with our meeting times. I made sure to schedule the outings when they were able to attend and they did their requirements at home. He had a great year, had fun when he could make our meetings, earned his Tiger rank, and crossed to Boy Scouts last year. Did the dad contact the CO about it to see if they were aware what the Pack was doing? Did the boy and his dad end up at your Pack?

Pack leaders should include - 1 COR 1 CC 1 CM 5 DL 1 Treasurer 1 Advancement That's 10 adults. If you add 4 Assistant DL's (every den should have 2 leaders except Tiger. With Adult Partners, and Shared Leadership, they can get away with only 1 DL), you have 14 registered adults. The Treasurer can run all fundraisers, the CC can also do Secretary duties. You should be having a Pack LEADERS meeting once a month. Preferably about 2 weeks before the monthly Pack meeting. The Pack LEADERS meeting should be all registered Pack adults. If both leaders in a den can't make it that is fine, but there should be at LEAST one person there from every den. There is no need for formal voting in a Pack Committee/Leaders meeting. A Pack is run on the consensus of it's leaders. You talk, discuss, and come to a mutual agreement on what is best for the BOYS and the Pack. Here is a link to information from the BSA on how to select Cub Leaders - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-500.pdf Here is a link to MyScouting on the BSA National Web site - http://myscouting.scouting.org/ You will find BSA's online training there. Check your Council's web site for their training calendar. Make sure EVERY registered adult in your Pack gets FULLY trained for their position.

Helicopter Parent Warning rrelaljrksw! The reason the Bear program was set up with choices for the Scout to make was to start the transition to Webelos and then to Boy Scout. There are bound to be some subjects in the book that just don't interest some boys. The decision to do everything in the book should be the BOY's not the Helicopter Leader's.

Achievement 9 can NOT be used for electives. The achievements are to be used for EITHER rank or elective, but not both. This is explained in the Bear Handbook.