ScoutNut

Yep, Parvuli Dei is for ages 8-10. However Alassa stated the only emblem her son has done is "Light of Christ". As her son is now a Bear, the odds are not good that she would start working with him on Parvuli Dei at this point in the year. That leaves earning it as a Webelos. While she could wait until 5th grade to work on Parvuli Dei with her son, since one of the optional "Faith" requirements for the Webelos Badge is to earn the religious emblem of your faith, and there is no similar requirement for AOL, it makes sense to work on it next year. We usually encourage our Cub Scouts to work on their Religious Emblems in 2nd, and 4th grades. It fits in well with their educational abilities, their religious ed studies, and their Scouting requirements.

Alassa - Your Baptist Bear would be doing the "God and Me" program. These booklets would be available from your local Scout Shop. Like the "Light of Christ" program your son did, there is an application form at the back of the booklet which must be signed by the Scout's pastor, and used to order the award. Talk to the parents, and let them know that when their son completes the "God and Me" program (it must be completed by the end of 3rd grade), if they give you a COPY of the form signed by their pastor (NOT the original-they must send that in to PRAY to receive the medal), you will get him his square knot. Next year, as a Webelos, your son can work on "Parvuli Dei" and your Baptist Scout can work on "God and Family".

Our town does something similar with drug money. All profits seized from area drug busts are divided up between the area's communities. Our town takes that money and uses it for youth and family programs (like the family night out program). It also gives some of it back to the area NFP groups, including Scouting groups. Each BSA unit, and GSUSA Troop, receive a portion based on the number of youth involved. Now we all know that dealing drugs is against BSA rules. However, since no Scouts are actually doing the drug dealing, those rules do not keep our units from participating in this program, and receiving some additional funds for their youth.

The Religious Emblem program is not a BSA program, and the work, at least at the Cub level, is usually done with the family, and approved by a member of their own church. Because the programs are created, run, and owned, by the individual religious institutions, the emblems (usually a medal) are usually presented by the youth's church, at a mass, service, or some other kind of activity determined by the church and the family involved. The purple/silver square knot, and the knot devices that go on it, are BSA awards that recognize Scouts (and Scouters) who have earned a youth religious emblem award from their faith. These are usually awarded at a Pack meeting. Have you given information on the religious emblem program to the boys in your den? Have any of their families told you they were working on an emblem, or asked for help in obtaining booklets or awards? If you want to know which Scouts have earned their religious emblem, you could always just ask them and/or their families. If you require proof before you award them a square knot, or knot device, you could ask for a copy of the completed, and approved, form from the back of their booklet, or ask to see the medal itself.

Another part of the problem for Cub leaders and scouts is that the necker is not a full square. It is a triangle made from rather thin fabric. You do not have enough heft to keep most slides on. While many put the rubber band around the necker, what also works is to put the band around the loop on the back of the slide. This makes the hole smaller and gives the necker a rough surface to grip.

Yep, rubber band is what I use on all of my necker slides!

Scoutfish, just a point to avoid confusion - MERIT BADGES are NOT part of the CUB Scout program. They have NOTHING to do with Cub Scouting, Pack Family Camping, or anything else Cub Scout related. To keep using them as if they were interchangeable with Cub Awards is misleading at best. Just because folks are looking for new ideas does not mean that "everybody is just bored out of their minds over the same old camping experience". It means, quite simply, we are doing advance planning, and looking for ideas. New, fun, ideas for Scouting activities can come from anywhere. However, while the idea of - "Why not just be spontaneous and just have a campout based on completely non-educational and non-scouting-productive activities!" - might be fine for a group of buds going out for a good time, it is not the Scouting program, and we, as Cub Scout leaders, get paid the big bucks to deliver the SCOUTING PROGRAM, even at a PACK FAMILY Campout. A Pack campout is not simply a "den meeting in a tent". It is also not a weekend of belching jokes with your buddies. A Cub Scout Pack Family campout is also NOT "a family campout by a group of folks who happen to be in the same den. They happen to be scouts." That is a Group of Friends Family Campout, not Scouting. A Cub Scout Pack Family campout is part of the Cub Scout program, and should be planned as such. Cub Scouts is ALL ABOUT FAMILY, so yes, there can very well be non-scouting brothers and sisters there. Part of the Cub Scout Outdoor Program is to provide age appropriate activities for them as well. And yes, sometimes we DO give them patches! We gave a little sister an award for catching the tiniest fish (about 1") at one of our Pack Family campouts. I think your example of - "Even though activity A is more fun to the Cubs and they always seem to enjoy it more...you plan activity B and C because they can get new badges = or pins they don't have. But it will be tight and close. If we cut lunch and free time back by an hour, then we will have just enough time to get activities B and C in." is exaggerated and unrealistic. If the boys have already done activity A numerous times, why repeat it yet again? You were complaining about boring camping trips. Why not try something different? If they have not done activities B and C before, they might just have more fun than with activity A, and as a plus they can earn a new award by doing them, so what's the problem? You start with B, see how that goes, and add C if there is time. Or you do both B and C and let the kids choose which one they want to do. Cutting out lunch is simply irresponsible, and no leader worth his/her position patch would even consider it. Cutting back on free time would be entirely up to the individual families. I have had families having so much fun doing an activity that they choose to continue doing it during their free time. No problem. That is why it is called FREE time. While advancement and awards should not be the focus of the campout, they should be included as part of the program, and in many instances will happen quite naturally as part of the FUN.

What Mike said! Overplanning is part of the plan. That includes planning in free, or family, time. Better to have to much to do,than not enough. The activities you do with Cub Scouts do not necessarily have to be achievement oriented. They certainly should not be the same, exact things, year, after year, after year. Yes, they most definitely should be fun. However, they should also be planned with the values and purposes of Cub Scouting in mind. That is, after all, what we, and they, are here for. Nothing wrong with a Scout saying - WOW, I didn't know I learned/did that! What is just a goofy, fun activity for the Scout, is a planned Scouting learning experience for the leaders involved.

If your Pack is telling new Cubs that they will go camping as soon as they sign up, then, yes, your Pack's leaders are sending the wrong message. Your Pack should be honest, and upfront about the Cub Scout program, the Pack's program, and the Pack's needs. Perhaps if you had mentioned to this dad at registration that in order for the Pack to go camping they would need someone to take BALOO training and run/plan the campout, he might have stepped up (with a bit of prodding from his son!). He might still step up. His son is antsy to camp, ask dad to take BALOO training with you. Also, camping is not the only way to get outdoors. Day hikes, with a stop at a picnic fire pit to make s'more's, is a great way to get the boys out. Visit nature centers, state parks and forests, for the day. Go visit an arboretum, conservatory, or botanical garden. Check out programs from any of the above places, museums, zoos, or even local sporting goods stores. Go out and do a kite fly. Participate in a river, or park, cleanup. Go on a horseback ride. Go on a bike hike. Have fun outdoors, and indoors, and the boys will not loose interest.

You can not generalize. It depends on the individual.

With 25 boys in a den, I wouldn't do "Shavings and Chips" during a den meeting, with only 3 adults, either. Especially since it is only an optional requirement. When I did it with my son's den (8 Scouts), we took 2 meetings. The first meeting we used mock-up poster board knives (with a brad so they could be opened and closed), went thru all of the safety rules, and earned the Whittling Chip card. A copy of the safety rules went home with each Scout, along with a permission slip. The second meeting, we had one-on-one with Scout and parent. The Scouts all brought their own pocket knife (most had gotten them as a popcorn incentive that year knowing we were going to be doing this). We went over the rules and techniques again, with each Scout demonstrating with his own knife. Then, with help from their parent, the boys worked on a carving or two of their choice. We used soap, but I have also seen it done using a chunk of balsa wood, or florist's foam.

"Yah, I think 5 positions is just fine for a troop of 25. Three PLs, an SPL and a QM." Jane said nothing about only 5 positions, she said - "the way it runs here is that kids can hold more than one position", and - "25 boys and 5 hold all the positions". "Now, it is unusual as others have suggested to give 'em multiple patches. But I don't think that's quite what you're talkin' about." Actually, it is. She stated that one of those 5 boys is one of her son's, and he, alone, holds 3 positions. So, right there we have 5 boys holding at LEAST 8 positions. As someone pointed out, SM approved leadership projects can also be done in lieu of a POR. Perhaps that is a way for Jane's other son to make rank. Are there a lot of things going on here of which we are unaware? Of course! That is the way it always is. However, I still think it is counterproductive to have a Scout holding 3+ POR's, and feel it is a warning sign that something is amiss with the Troop program.

No cooking - Walking Taco Salad Do all prep work at home (brown grd beef, cut up onions, grate cheese, chop lettuce, chop tomato, drain beans, etc) At camp put out stuff along with snack size bags of Fritos. Scouts can choose which ingredients they want in their bag of Fritos. Eat from bag. You can also get big bag of taco type chips and put everything on plate. This is good for groups with picky eaters, or with a combo of veggies and non-veggies.

Nope, as others have said, it is not common at all. Does your Troop give some kind of reason for doing it this way? How old, what rank, are your sons? The Troop should be teaching it's Scouts leadership. Holding a POR is one, important, way of doing that. When a Scout holds 3+ POR's at the same time, odds are, for most of these Scouts, none of them are being done well. If it were me, I would seriously consider finding a new Troop for BOTH of my sons.

I don't think that stating that the Tiger den is going camping, and the rest of the Pack can come along too if they want, but everyone else will have to plan their own activities, meals, accommodations, etc, is what BSA has in mind for a Pack campout. A Pack campout is planned, and run, by a BALOO trained leader, from the very start, as a PACK EVENT, on the PACK CALENDAR, with a PACK BUDGET. It must be communicated as a PACK EVENT, with the entire Pack encouraged to attend. There must be activities included for all age and ability levels. BSA's outdoor program is progressive. It is meant to be that way. Starting at the end of the program, with den camping (even if you call it Pack camping) defeats the the whole point of the program.

Sorry Oak, but while it might be minor to you, I doubt it would be minor to a 4th grader who is not allowed to get the Webelos rank award he has earned. The CM asked for CNYScouter to involve himself in the issue, even though CNY has no affiliation to the Webelos den. Now that he knows what the CM was up to, I feel CNYScouter should give him the feedback he asked for. Ignoring it is the same as agreeing that it is alright to do it. On the topic of Merit Badges, they are part of the Boy Scout advancement program, not the Cub Scout program. Different program, different rules. Yes, a Merit Badge Counselor must fill out a separate BSA adult application for that position. They also have to fill out a Merit Badge Counselor application stating which merit badges they would like to be a counselor for. Both have to be approved by their local council. Webelos den leaders only need to be registered as a Webelos den leader. Adults instructing Webelos Activity Badges do not have to be separately registered, or registered at all. They do, however, have to be approved by the Webelos den leader. The Webelos rank award requirements in question by CNYScouter's CM are not related to Webelos Activity Badges.

He may be a "by the book" kind of guy, but he is certainly not following any BSA book. Shame on him for putting you in this position. From your post it sounds like he did so in a rather underhanded way without explaining his agenda (perhaps because he knew he was wrong?). Requiring Webelos to memorize the Boy Scout Oath, Law, Motto, & Slogan for the Webelos rank award, is CLEARLY adding to the requirements, and against BSA policy. Nowhere in any BSA publication does it state that "testing" is a part of any Cub Scout advancement program, including at the Webelos level. Cub Scouts are to do their individual best, and at the Webelos Cub Scout level that best is decided/approved by the Webelos den leader or a person assigned by the Webelos den leader. Since the CM dragged you into the middle of this, sit down with him over a cuppa, and talk to him about the Webelos program, and what he is planning to do. Be prepared to show him the policies in BSA's "book". Good Luck.

The big change to Cub Scouts is away from family to all den work on requirements. This would not impact Webelos since they already do den based advancement. The only possible change that I have heard for Webelos is that BSA is doing a pilot for going back to a one year Webelos program (currently it is 12-18 months). However, as far as I know, it is still only in the pilot stage, and will not be happening next year. I don't see BSA adding any of the new belt loops to the Webelos program, but then you never know. The Cub Scout Leader Book is not supposed to be an in-depth instruction on advancement. For that you have Leader Specific training, level handbooks, and the Webelos Leader Guide. The purpose of the Cub Scout Leader Book is an overview of the Cub Scout Program, and a place to find BSA's policies and procedures for the Cub Scout Program. The Cub Scout Leader Book is accurate on both of its pages. The subjects are split on two different pages because they are for different things. A Webelos Scout is REQUIRED to earn a total of 8 Webelos Activity badges to earn both the Webelos rank award (3 activity badges) and the AOL award (5 activity badges). There are a total of 20 Webelos Activity badges they can earn IF THEY WISH TO. The Compass Point Emblem, and Compass Points, are more like elective awards. The Compass Point Emblem is awarded to the Webelos after he has earned his Webelos rank award (which includes earning 3 activity badges), plus an additional 4 activity badges (for a total of 7 badges). Those 4 additional activity badges can include the badges required for AOL, but do not HAVE to. After earning the Emblem, a Compass Point is earned for every 4 activity badges earned. If a Webelos earns the Emblem, and all 3 Compass Points, he will have earned 19 activity badges. If they earn one more activity badge they will have earned all 20. This is usually celebrated some way in the Pack. Usually with a certificate and/or a special patch for the Webelos brag vest/blanket/jacket/whatever. BSA has a Webelos Super Achiever patch available for Packs to use as a recognition item.

Just a reminder - Keep in mind that if you are cooking something at your campsite all day, someone MUST be there watching it, all day. If you leave either a campstove, or hot firebed, going unattended all day, you will have critters in everything, and run a chance of causing a major fire.

posted Sat, 1/16 - "My troop and I are going to a hunting camp next weekend and I don't know what to bring or what clothes to wear." Sorry cclman, just a bit concerned that you, and other Scouts in your Troop, are going camping tomorrow, in winter conditions, that you don't seem ready for, without having had at least one prep meeting beforehand. Hope all goes well for you guys!

Nick, just curious, does your Troop do any cold weather training of any sort? It just seems strange that your Troop is going on a backpack snowshoe/ski hike and they/you don't seem to know the first thing about winter safety. Perhaps you should be talking to your SPL about these issues.

"Venividi, as for shaming the older scouts to stay active, that just doesn't seem like a good method." Very true! As a matter of fact it can have the oppisite effect. It did for my son. Son worked part time at the local grocery store. That ment some evenings, some late nights, and some weekends. He would put in his request for the days he could not work and the weekends he needed off, but he did not always get them. Especially being the "low man". If he called in sick, he had to track down someone else to take his place. Switching with someone else usually ment giving up a day he already had things planned. If he wanted to keep his job, he could not always call in sick, and he certainly could not just not show up. He started out making as many of his weekly Troop meetings as possible. Then his SM started giving him grief every time he missed a meeting or weekend campout. He felt that his commitment to Scouts should overrule his job. As a consequence son attended even less Troop meetings. However, he was a Den Chief, and made many of the den & Pack meetings. He worked with the District Cub Scout events. He staffed Cub Day Camp and Cub Resident Summer Camp. He helped out at Council popcorn delivery and return. He stayed an "active" Scout, just not very active with his inflexable Troop.

Make sure your 5th grade Scouts understand their non-Scout friends MUST be 11 years old to be able join a Troop before the end of 5th grade.

Vince, you should not be able to simply purchase "Tranied" patches at your Scout Shop. The patches are usually presented to folks by their trainer, after completing training. I have also had them left for the participant with their unit's "mail" at the council office, and mailed directly to the participant's home. Contact your Council to see if your youth are eligible, and if you can purchase the patches, or if they have to come from Council.

There are a number of folks out there who consider BSA to stand for Babysitters of America. There are quite a few who refuse to work with their son at all. That is the reason for the Cub Scouts 2010. I would have said that I was sorry he felt that way, but one of the main reasons for the PWD is to help the parents and sons have a fun, quality experience they can do together. Also, there is really no need to cut out anything on the PWD car. A bit of hand sanding on the corners, some nifty paint, and they are good to go. I have had Scouts do just that and win a number of races. Lots of fun had by all.