ScoutNut

So you are advocating that no leader should have a son in the Troop he is registered with? That only NON-PARENT adults be allowed to attend camping trips?

For those that missed it Roadkill's Pack has TWENTY (20) Scouts. Not 60, or almost 100, but a rather small Pack of 20. The $9,000 was in the GENERAL fund ONLY. That amount did NOT include Scout accounts, or any of the other "special" accounts for equipment, training, uniforms, camperships, etc. There is over $12,000 in the ENTIRE Pack account - for 20 Scouts. Out of the $9,000 General fund, the Pack pays for advancements, Boys Life, new neckers, crafts, and some food for Pack activities. The Pack might have to pre-pay for some activities, but participants are always charged a fee to attend. I am assuming the aim is to break even. Roadkill states that there is NO allocation shown for any advance saving for any kind of future/upcoming activity. Based on what Roadkill states the Pack pays for, and the costs shown on the National web site, a rounded up estimate for 20 Scouts is around $5,000 per year. Roadkill also states that the amount in the General fund keeps INCREASING each year. So what ever money the Pack uses out of it is being replaced, and then some. The Pack is now RAISING dues because the "cost to charter went up". While the National registration cost did go up $5 to $15 per year, Roadkill stated that their Charter Organization, NOT the Pack, pays the recharter costs each year, and sometimes even gives the Pack additional monies. The Pack pays for Boys Life but that cost has not increased and is still $12 per year. All of the above would make me, as a paying member of the Pack, very curious as to why EXACTLY dues were being raised, and where/how the Pack's money was being spent. BSA states that Pack families should be kept informed of the Pack's budget and financial information. If I was you Roadkill, I would have asked some questions, then and there, at the Committee meeting. Since you did not, I would invite the Treasurer out for a coffee, and a talk, to explain the Pack's budgeting, and their need for a dues increase. I would also try to convince the CC. and Treasurer, that these things should be communicated openly, and fully, to all of the Pack families. If you want to see the Pack pay for more for the Scouts, it is up to you to advocate for it. Come up with a plan for an activity, and, at the next Committee meeting, offer to run it if the Pack pays for it.

I can't tell you how prevalent this attitude is, but I can tell you that it exists. My son's SM made it VERY clear that women could help in the kitchen, but that was about it. They did have a female CC, but the SM pretty much ran everything leaving her more in the roll of a secretary. Females were not allowed to work with the boys in any capacity. They could drive to campouts, but they could not stay. They would have to drive back home and then drive back out again for pick up. It was a very closed "old boys club". Needless to say this cost them volunteers, and also boys.

A Tiger earned 28 Belt Loops and 19 Pins? This is over half of the available loops, and over half of the pins for the loops. While I feel it is usually the parents call on completion of these things, and would usually say not to interfere, these many loops and pins being earned by a 1st grader is very unrealistic. Most of the work for these had to have been done by the parent. In this case I agree that the parent should have copies of the requirements and make notes on how they were completed. Just for curiosity, what were the 28 loops, and 19 pins?

I don't know about your area but we don't usually get a lot of new Webelos registering, and 6/7 in a den IS a "full" den. I would not split your Bear den up at this point. I would wait until you graduate them into Webelos at the end of the school year. Of course, having den leaders for each den first is a must. With the new Cub program, and 100% of all advancement being done in the den meeting for all levels, I think that the smaller, BSA recommended den size of 6-8 is a much better way to go. Den's of 10+ can seem to much like a schoolroom.

You stated that the SM refused to "give approval for the boys Eagle Project", but that the Scout completed it WITH the SM's signature. Did you mean WITH - or - WITH OUT the signature of the SM? If the SM never signed the project plan at the approval stage the Scout should never have gone ahead with the project. The workbook states specifically that the Scout may ONLY proceed with his service project after he has obtained approvals from all of the appropriate persons. One of those is the signature of the SM. Was it at the final approval for a completed project that the SM refused to sign? Or did the SM sign at both the project approval and the completion approval, and is now saying he does not approve the project after the fact? Even without the signatures of the SM and the CC on his application he can not be denied an EBOR. I would hope that your council would hold a BOR without delay so that the Scout could start his appeals process ASAP if necessary.

The restaurant cookout could be iffy too. It would basically be a donation to your Pack, and your Pack is not a legal entity in and of itself with a Federal tax ID for the restaurant to use for tax deduction purposes. If your Charter Organization is a non-profit they might let you use their Federal tax number so that on the restaurants taxes the contribution is actually going to the CO and not the Pack. However that is something you would have to clear with your CO. As others have mentioned, all non-council sponsored money earning activities MUST be approved by your council in advance. Here is a link to the Unit Money-Earning Application - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34427.pdf

Gunny, someone at your council is confused, or your CM is. The rollover in Scoutnet is automatic, and can not be "delayed". There is no need for a CM (or anyone else) to request special permission from council for a Scout to continue to work toward rank after the end of the school year. They just do it. The only reason to change Scoutnet would be if the Scout was held back in school, and the parents decided to have him repeat the Scout level (not usually a good idea, but it does happen).

Cub Scout levels are (mainly) based on their grade in school. The Cub Scout Leader Book repeatedly states that once the current grade has been completed the Scout then is able to move to the next Cub level. In the "Resources and Forms" section at the end of the Cub Scout Leader Book is a chart titled "The Cub Scout Cycle". This shows the cycle to run from June through May. It also states - "Roll over on June 1. Tiger Cubs become Wolf, Wolf to Bear, Bear to Webelos Scouts." The BSA computer system, Scoutnet, does just that. All Cub Scouts are automatically bumped up to their next Cub level on June 1 in the system. As for continuing to work in his current Cub level over the summer, this is what the BSA Cub Scout Leader Book has to say - "Each boy should be encouraged to earn the rank for his grade (or age). If a boy is close to earning a badge of rank when the school year ends, he may be allowed a few extra weeks to finish before going on to the next rank." And - "The elective plan provides advancement opportunities and recognition for boys until they are eligible to begin working on the next rank." Since they are "eligible to begin working on the next rank" at the end of the school year, the few extra weeks they can take after the end of the school year is for completing their rank award ONLY, and NOT to work on electives or any other bling they missed out on during the past year.

>>"how do I know? Because I asked. I guess the day camp director and program director might have been providing inaccurate answers, but I have no reason to believe that was the case."

As to how to respond to your son - I agree with the others, simply tell him the truth.

It is possible that they were led to believe by the unit that they had to promise to "do their duty" to a Christian god, and could not change the wording, in any way, to reflect their own faith. This happens a lot.

>>"When I worked on cub day camp staff, I never saw OA youth involved."

Is it appropriate? YES! And good for him for volunteering, it means he is taking his job seriously! Does your Pack have any other Den Chiefs? Are any of them willing to attend? If so, the Boy Scouts could tent together. If your Webelos Den Chief knows of another potential Den Chief in his Troop, having him come along with him would be a good idea. I don't know if just having another Boy Scout body along simply for "buddy" purposes would work well. The other Boy Scout would have to be committed to working with the Cubs for the weekend, and not just there to camp with his buddy. I have no problem with the Den Chief alone in his own tent. Especially if he is an older, experienced, Scout. He does NOT need to have a parent present. He DOES need a signed permission slip from his parents. No, the Den Chief is NOT an adult. He is however not simply another youth member of the den (a big Cub Scout). He is part of the leadership team of the Webelos den, and should be treated as such. While on the campout, he will be under the supervision of the Webelos den leader. I would let the Den Chief and the Webelos den leaders sit down and figure out themselves where he will do the most good. As to how he would participate in a Webelos den campout, again he is a member of the den leadership team, but not an adult. He would tent by himself. Webelos den campouts are a great time for the Den Chief to use his knowledge and plan a program for the boys. Again, program planning is done in conjunction with the den leaders.

WCScouter mentioned both the wife and son in his very first post, I did not make them up. WCScouter also said that this man would rather stay just an active dad rather than have his past come out. As for him being "truly innocent", DUDE! again, as WCScouter stated in his opening post he is not "innocent". He made a mistake, received probation, and paid his dues about seven years age. DUDE! If you feel he is such a horrible threat to the youth in the Pack, why is it OK for him to stay on as just an "active dad"? And DUDE! Can you honestly say that you, Dude, have NEVER, EVER, lost control of your emotions? For all we know, you, Dude, could have a prison record. Even if you don't, that only means you were never caught loosing control of your emotions. This man is now married, and both he and his wife are "assets to the Pack". He has a son who is a Scout, and who he takes to all Scouting activities. When asked, he did NOT try to hide his past. He simply stated that he would rather NOT be a registered leader if it meant his past would become public knowledge. I don't blame him for not wanting his family hurt. And, DUDE, hurt they would be. And DUDE, NO I do NOT think any Pack is worth punishing, and hurting a little boy. I guess, DUDE, we must agree to disagree, over how to treat this man and his family.

The problem is that most here seem to NOT be willing to let him be merely an "active dad". The problem is that most seem to want WestCoastScouter to tell everyone in the Pack about his background, even if he stays merely an "active dad". I am not sure what the folks here think that WCScouters Pack should then do with/to this family. Punish the dad, because he had the effrontery to be honest when asked by the Pack to take on the role of den leader, by what? Not allowing him to attend any den or Pack functions? Not allowing him, or his wife, to help the Pack in any way? Kicking him out of the Pack? Kicking him, and his wife who had the bad judgment to marry him out of the Pack? Kicking the man, his wife, and his son, out of the Pack, and blackballing them to any other Pack in the District? So what do you all suggest WCScouter do? Personally, I doubt this man will EVER be honest about his background again, and will simply say NO loudly if he is ever asked to volunteer for anything again.

Looking at the requirements, it seems to be to be set up to be done mainly at home. I don't see how some of the Loop requirements can be done at a Pack/District/Council event.

Engineer has spoken of his son in other posts.

>>"it was a big hit on his grade for the quarter...one letter grade...I am more concerned about the precedent that it sets, however. Only 4 weeks to try to make up the damage."

Jenny - Start your Scouts and their families talking up the Pack to the other boys and families in their son's classroom. Do Spring and Fall recruiting. Plan a fun Pack event for right before school starts back up and invite all of the boys in grades 1-5. Make sure your Scouts are having a great time and getting a great program. Plan some fun stuff to do over the summer. When you do a Pack activity, make sure to include the Scouts entire family. A rely race can work with 6 kids, but when you include parents and siblings it can be great fun for everyone!

Really? Have you reverted to age 12?

"Sure, you could have a meeting just to explain that the guy was falsely accused and falsely found guilty" Why on earth would you have a general Pack meeting to air a parent's dirty laundry? It is up to the CO, and the Council if ANYONE is accepted as a leader. If there are problems in his/her background, again, it is ONLY between the CO, the council, and the person themselves. This is NOT something that should be discussed with everyone in the Pack and beyond!

Well, he told you, and the COR/IH would have to be told to find out how they felt about it. Then, if OK'd by the CO, it would go on his application, and the CO should talk to the SE to let him/her know that it is a confidential matter, and the CO is truly OK with him being a leader. Negative responses to a background check are confidential, and are not broadcast to the entire council, or unit membership (remember those BSA files in the news lately that everyone is so hot to be published for all to see?). So, what it boils down to is while the process is supposed to be confidential, the odds are that with that many people in the know, it will leak out eventually. Thank him, respect his wish for privacy, and find another den leader.

This really has very little to do with Scouts, advancement, or pushing the rank of Eagle. It has to do with a very practical use of their resources by parents. If a teenager wants a car, as a parent it is well within good parenting, and good character, practices to make sure that their child knows something about how a car works, and how to take care of it. I don't know about you, but I would feel much better about my son driving (in the city or especially out in the woods) if he had a clue what it means when the oil gauge drops, or how to change a tire. I think having him do the Automotive Maintenance merit badge in advance of getting a car is a great idea. It helps him both with his car, and his Scouting. It demonstrates how what he is learning in Scouts can impact his everyday life. Why is this a bad thing?

Why didn't he work on his homework when he got home? Did he get back from the campout just in time to go to bed on Sunday evening? I know that girls and boys are different (I have one of each), but our girls would often bring their school books with them on Troop campouts. That way they could still attend the campout, and also work on their assignments for their classes during down time. Somehow I feel that your Scout would have come up with another excuse not to do the assignment if there had not been a Scout outing. They have to learn that there are consequences to their actions in all areas of their life. Isn't that part of what we are trying to teach them in Scouting?