ScoutNut

This is not all on the Scout. Where are the checks and balances in this Troop? Where was the SM? Where was the Advancement Chair? Where was his PL? How did he pass his BOR if he could not tell them anything about what he did to earn Tenderfoot? Yes, the Scout must be counseled, and held accountable, but there are problems within this Troop that need fixing too.

Sorry, we have never needed by-laws. Other than the Cub Scout Promise, and the Law of the Pack, the only thing left you could possibly put in by-laws would be when/where you meet, and what your financial set-up is (dues/fundraising/scout accounts/what families are responsible for paying for/etc).

Once an official uniform, always an official uniform. BSA has added a cold weather option for those that wish it. It is hard to do all of the fancy bellows and such in the heavier fabric. The light weight Supplex versions are not going away, although BSA did come out with a revamped Centennial shirt for the ladies. It has flat, instead of bellows, pockets.

>>"The Pack leaders screwed up and let the boy join too young or let him advance too fast to stay with the correct grade rank correlation."

What is your point here? Do you want to institute an attendance policy for your Webelos den? Do you want to take your entire Webelos den camping without any parents?

Well, while it could have been worded better, updating the brand image, and making it more consistent across the board, IS part of the new Delivery Model.

That is not so bad. He can stay in the Pack and work on more Activity Badges (Perhaps he will want to earn them all?), and help out the 4th grade Webelos leaders. Then, after summer, when he turns 10, he can join the rest of his friends.

It has been known all along that Webelos was not changing in any major way. The "new delivery method" is for Tiger thru Bears, and moves advancement work from family centered to den centered. This is how the Webelos program has been so no change in delivery method was/is needed for them. The new book covers are happening on all BSA publications. They are consolidating, unifying, their brand image. This has also been in the works for quite a while.

From the BSA Youth Application - "Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18."

No one is telling this mother to to "go against her beliefs", or to teach her son that these thing are really OK. What we ARE saying is that her son is no longer a baby, or a Cub Scout. He is now a Boy Scout. The decision of which Boy Scout Troop for HIM to join should be HIS, with input/help from his parents, yes, but HIS decision. His mother is capable of talking to other people about this issue, I am quite certain she is capable of talking to her own son about it. Once she has discussed the issues of this Troop with her son, and CLEARLY laid out her feelings, and beliefs, then it should be up to HER SON if he wishes to join that Troop, or look for another. If the mom is not comfortable joining the Troop her SON wants to join, and wants to join another one so she can be a female ASM, and go camping with the boys (or for whatever the reason), she is free to do just that. The Troop SHE decides to join does NOT have to be the same one her SON decides to join.

If a boy has not yet finished kindergarten, but is already 7 years old (but not yet 8), he has met the BSA joining requirements and is able to be a registered Tiger Cub Scout. He may start earning awards as soon as he has turned in his application to his Cubmaster. A boy who has not yet finished kindergarten, and is not yet 7 years old, has NOT met the BSA joining requirements, and can NOT be registered as a Tiger Cub Scout. He can VISIT Cub Scout meetings and activities as a prospective Scout, but he can NOT earn any Cub Scout awards because he is NOT yet a REGISTERED CUB SCOUT. Once he has either reached his 7th birthday, or completed kindergarten, he can then become a Cub Scout, and his activities can then count toward Cub Scout awards. How can you earn an organization's award if you are not yet a member of that organization? BSA uses the date of June 1st as the date that the current school year ends. At that point all youth are considered to have completed their current grades. BSA's computer system, Scoutnet, then automatically "graduates" all current Cub Scouts to their next Cub level, and accepts the applications of new 1st graders as Tiger Cub Scouts.

I am not sure how you figured the Bear den meetings to work out only if you start in June. The book specifically states that it is written to start in September, and have 2 den meetings each month. I went thru the Den Meeting Plans for Bears and compared them to the requirements in the Bear Handbooks. By the end of meeting #12 (the second meeting in February) all of the achievements for the Bear rank award would have been covered. I have always ran weekly meetings. When my den meetings were on Saturday, sometimes a den meeting would be a den outing. When I had evening meetings during the week, we would substitute a Saturday outing for that weeks meeting. It would work out to 3 den meeting/outings, and 1 Pack meeting, each month. I never had any problems with parents. Although we did have to be flexible with their schedules. As for the new delivery method, I am not a fan. However, it is early yet, and the plans seem to give you a bit of flexibility. We shall see down the road if it lives up to all of the hype.

BSA would rather that a UC does NOT commission for a unit he/she is a member of. The point of a UC is that they are an IMPARTIAL, OUTSIDE, observer who can offer help and mentoring to a unit without being seen as taking sides. This can not happen if they are also a member of the unit.

Your DE has nothing to do with this. As a Den Leader it is really not your call either. There is no written BSA policy on the discipline of adult leaders. However, as Chai stated, leaders serve at the behest of the Charter Organization. The Cubmaster, Committee Chair, and Charter Organization Representative, need to sit these two down and go over the rules and regulations. I would suggest that if they do not want to release them as leaders, they give them a set time frame to shape up, or they will be released. I would suggest the CM, CC, and COR keep a sharp lookout at their behavior and how they run the program. As for the smoking, is there an area outside, away from the youth, that can be designated as the smoking area? The next time they light up in front of the youth, the COR, or CC, should take them aside immediately, let them know that BSA policy does not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants, and instruct them to either go to the designated smoking area, put it out, or go home. If their behavior does not improve by the end of the time frame given them by the COR, the COR is within his/her rights to terminate their leader positions with the Pack. Personally, If I was the CC, I would also purchase a Den Leader position patch, hand it to the person wearing the CM position patch, and request they switch patches.

What kind of documentation are you looking for? We must be missing something here. What - exactly - are you trying to clarify? The BSA Insignia Guide is very clear that the number of merit badges allowed to be worn on the right sleeve of the BSA Boy Scout long sleeve shirt is LIMITED TO 6. Any over that number must be worn on the Merit Badge sash which has no limit on the number allowed to to attached to it.

Our IOLS is Friday evening thru Sunday late afternoon (6PM-3PM). Our OLSWL is all day Saturday (8AM-6PM). It is generally ran with IOLS. They share some class time and break off for others. We used to have the Webelos leaders stay overnight on Saturday. Now they are done, and can leave by 6PM. Some opt to say over anyway and leave in the morning. BALOO is an all day Saturday training (8:30AM-5PM), with no overnight camping at all. Moose, may I suggest that you find out EXACTLY what your role is in your council training committee, and then do THAT role well. Trying to do everything, and be everything, connected to training for all program units, is not going to work well.

Not sure what you mean by - "He does not have the popcorn yet, but he has still left us in a bad position." If you have never given him the popcorn he ordered, how can he pay you? Why not ask him for his sales list and deliver it yourselves. Or hold a booth sale and sell the popcorn.

Scouts advance at their OWN rate, not yours. Achieving Eagle is NOT the purpose of Scouting. It is the journey that counts, and what kind of young man you end up with, not the bling pinned to his shirt. Every boy is different. Not good or bad, better or worse. Just DIFFERENT. Not everyone is a "go-getter". You don't have to be a "go-getter" to earn Eagle. Your job is not to find a boy's "purpose", but to achieve the purpose of the BSA. As has been discussed to death here and described often by BSA, "scout spirit" has NOTHING to do with participation in the Troop. Scout Spirit is "living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your EVERYDAY LIFE. If you would rather state "I made ## of Good Eagles, the others don't count and working with them is a mistake", than "I helped open young men's eyes, and hearts, and helped them to grow into better people and citizens. I made a difference in their lives", then you do not belong in the job of Scoutmaster.

The date of the BOR is the date a boy starts in his new rank. This is stated in various BSA sources, including the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures. When a boy goes for Eagle, both his Council, and National, will check out the dates listed on his application, and in ScoutNet, VERY carefully. You do not want this boy's Eagle derailed for want of 1 day. Since your Troop only holds BOR's every 3 months, or more, this boy has 3 options - 1) He waits until your Committee can convene a BOR sometime after the 25th. 2) You can intervene on his behalf to see if the Advancement Chair will hold the BOR on the 24th but date it as the 25th or 26th on the Advancement Report, and in all records. 3) He can find a new Troop.

BSA is going with the online leader specific training mainly because MANDATORY training is coming. Is here already in some councils. Many leaders are not currently getting trained because they do not want, or have the time, to take council in-person trainings. Some folks live out in rural areas where travel time to trainings is over an hour each way. Also, many councils have a very limited number of training dates. The online training is much more available, and will not be going away. From what I understand there will still be DVD's, and in-person trainings, to accommodate as many different people/scenarios as possible. As a trainer for my council/district, I am not limited to a certain area in my district or council. If that were the case we would need 5X the number of trainers we now have, and good luck finding people to fill all those positions. Trainings are staffed with what ever trainers you can find who are available for that training date. You, of course, start with trainers in your district, and area, if none are available you go farther out. I have often staffed trainings hosted by other Districts, and also had to scramble to find staffers from where ever I could for courses I was Director for. National requires the use of a National syllabus for trainings to help standardize the content nationwide. This means that they want to be sure that leaders across the country are getting the same information when they take the same course. Of course we all know that even then some presentations are better than others. Think how much worse it would be if each council made up their own "customized" trainings. As for adding special council only trainings, you would need additional trainers to be able to add additional trainings. Again, good luck getting volunteers. Often you will those "special" kinds of classes in your Council's one day "super" trainings. The Pow Wow's, Super Saturday's, University of Scouting, and the like. Additional training, and interaction with experienced Scouters, can also be found at monthly Roundtables.

>>"We register in September, but the pack doesn't actually use that registration money to re-charter till March."

It sounds like this man can't be bothered to take the time to attend Scout meetings with his younger son, or to even drop him off and pick him up. I guess 2 sets of meetings is simply to much trouble. However, it is entirely possible that the boy worked on his Tiger and Wolf requirements with his father AT HOME, or on the side at the den meetings for his older brother. As others have said, BSA makes it very clear, the parent is Akela, and has the right/responsibility to approve son's work. If he states the boy completed stuff you have no option but to believe him, and award the patch to his son. It is a shame that he has robbed his younger son of a Scout program with his classmates and friends for the last 2 years. He has missed out on quite a lot. BUT - That changes next year. Next year, the Cub Scout program for Tiger, Wolf, and Bear, is changing. ALL (or most, there will be some "homework") requirements will be done IN THE DEN MEETING. It will be the DEN LEADER who approves the boys work. This is similar to how Webelos is done now. As a Bear, if this boy never attends meetings, and does not get his work approved by his BEAR den leader, he will not earn his Bear Rank Award. It might be interesting to see what happens when you lay that bomb on the father! By the way, if he is spending so much time and energy on his sons in the den meetings, how are the rest of the boys doing? What kind of a den leader is he? Is he providing ALL of the boys in his den with a good program?

>>" I know in the past you could take the training. Then plug in your number to get credit. Now you need to get a number to create a login. You can't take training until you have a login."

It seems odd that a council would tell a CM to remove one of the Packs den leaders - period. Unless it is a YP/background check issue the council has absolutely no say so in "firing" any unit leader. This is definitely a personality issue (arguing and being late all of the time are not against any Scouting "rules"). You need to talk to your CO as Calico suggests. And soon. By the way, ALL registered adults in your new Pack (including the COR) should get FULLY trained as soon as possible.

Is this the same Pack and COR that you had problems with a few months ago? The COR that refused to let your Bear den (of which you were the den leader) of 15 get split? Or, as you were talking of doing, did you start a brand new Pack, with a brand new COR, and take over the role of CM? If this is your old Pack, and you have taken on the roll of CM along with DL, what happened with your den? Did you force the COR to allow a split? Perhaps, if that is what happened, the COR might feel burned by the incident. He might feel that his input is not wanted/needed by the Pack, and so has decided to take a very hands off approach. If this is a brand new Pack you started mid-year, the COR might be untrained and not know his true roll in the Pack leadership. This is where a UC could help by talking to the COR. Actually, a lot of what you do now (old or new Pack) depends on just exactly what the den leader did that is so horrible. If it is a Youth Protection abuse issue then there is no need for the entire Committee/Pack to be informed, or to vote on anything. The CC simply contacts your COR and Council SE, reports the problem, and that the DL is being taken off of the charter. The DL is then informed that his services are no longer required. If the BSA rules being "broken" were of the not filing a Tour Permit variety, have you talked to the DL about it? Is the DL trained? Training, and a good discussion with the CM and CC, can solve most of these type of problems. Unless the real problem is a personality issue between various adults in leadership positions. That kind of thing can get ugly fast, and bring down a Pack. Since the COR does not want to hear anything about the issue, I can only assume it is NOT a youth abuse issue and more of a personality war. You, the CC, and your UC, need to decide to sit down with the COR, weather he wants to or not, for a frank discussion of the problems within the Pack.