ScoutNut

On a side note - Does anyone know why the bright boys at National decided to confuse the issue so VERY much by using a name (Venture/Venturing) for a new program that was already in use for an existing program? Why not use something like Rover Group instead of Venturing Crew? It has a similar meaning, and separates the programs ENTIRELY. Instead, we now have to put up with pre-Venturing Venturing Crews, Venture Patrols, and the current Venturing Crews. Sheesh!

>>"the letter and pins are not considered advancement, and hence are not restricted items"

A Boy Scout earns Boy Scout awards. A Venturer earns Venturing awards. A Boy Scout Troop's Venture Patrol is NOT a chartered Venturing Crew. Only a boy who is a registered member of a Venturing Crew (or Sea Scout Ship), may earn Venturing awards.

None of our camps have done a collection during the faith service. At least none that I have ever been at. They HAVE announced at flags, when there has been a collection jar at a specific site, for a specific purpose. Personally, I feel what dScouter15 described was a bit tacky.

Wow, out of 120 Cub Scouts, you have 10 show up, and that is considered an "impressive" turnout! That is sad. As mentioned in other threads on this subject, we are a year round Pack. However we concentrate on Pack level (instead of den level) activities (for the most part) during the Summer months. We have just about 100% of our Scouts (plus parents and sibs) attend for both our bus trip to a Minor League baseball game, and our Picnic/Rocket Shoot. Attendance at Day Camp and Summer Camp varies, but we usually have at least a few boys who go (some to both), and some years we end up with a nice size group. I would say that attendance at our other Summer activities runs from 1/2 to 1/3 of our families. With as big of a Pack as you have, advance planning, and advance promotion is a MUST if you 1) want to get as many families as possible to attend, and 2) want to be able to accommodate around 200 people (if everyone shows up) without major problems. Just a thought, maybe your size has been the reason that your Pack has steered away from Summer Pack events. Running an activity for that many kids and families is a MAJOR undertaking.

>>"however they haven't met the qualifications to have a religious award."

We average about 35. Have not gone below 30 in the past 15 years, or above 45. All of our families are active. Some might not be as active as others, but we are flexible, and try our darnedest to accommodate all families schedules. The boys, and their families, seem to have a good time, and they keep coming back for more! Bear Dad stated - >>" quite frankly not lot of support from council "

Here you go - sheet music with 4 part harmony - http://www.bristoltroop3.com/paper/Scout%20is%20Reverent/scout%20is%20reverent.pdf

From Scoutfish - >>"You know why somebody gives an anonymous tip? Because they have a friend who is about to do something wrong, and they want to prevent it from happening,

>>"The reason I started the thread is because I read somewhere that BSA is less inclusive than world scouting, and specifically disallows any boy who does not profess belief in a single monotheistic God."

Our guys launch their own rockets. With 17 ft of cable, they are far enough back from the launch itself to be safe. We use caution tape to mark off the "do not enter" zone. They love to see how high their rocket goes, and then to race after it as it comes down. Sometimes I think the racing after part is what they like best! When they return with their rocket to "Rocket Control Headquarters", they get assistance (from adults and den chiefs) in repacking the chute/streamers, and making any repairs. Then their rocket gets put in line for their next launch. Make sure each person with a rocket puts their name on it!

So they are! I did not notice when I did a search that they came up under "Closeouts". All the more reason to purchase what you can now. The cheapest online prices I have seen are almost double what the BSA sale price is.

Actually you can get everything you need from BSA National Supply (scoutstuff.org), except the launch pads, at a cheaper price. Launch pads run from around $15 for a Quest Lift Off, to around $22 for a Estes Porta Pad II, at online hobby shops. Just do a search, and find the cheapest price. From ScoutStuff - Estes Viking Rockets - 12 - $28 Estes A8-3 Engines - 24 - $30 Electron Beam Launch Controller - 2 - $6 ea - $12 From Online Hobby Shops - Estes Porta-Pad II Launch Pad - 2 - $22 ea - $44 Quest Lift-Off Launch Pad - 2 - $15 ea - $30 This would all add up to around $100 - $114 for 12 Scouts, launching 2X, from 2 launch stations. Or - $179 - $200 - for 24 Scouts, launching 2X, from 3 launch stations. I would recommend more engines, as the boys will want to go more than twice. On the plus side, the controllers and launch pads only have to be purchased once. In follow up years, the Pack will only have to buy rockets and engines. Ask your Pack families if any of them are into model rocketry. They might have launch systems the Pack can borrow, and some big rockets they can bring out to show off. They also make great Rocket Shoot event chairs (Rocketeers!).

Both the rocket kits, and engines, come in bulk Educator Packs. That is the most economical way to purchase them. Then get 2-4 launch pads (depending on how many Scouts you have) separately.

Part of the fun is having the boys put together, and decorate if it is a plain white body, their own rocket. It gets them (and their parents) involved in the project. Even Tigers can build a level 1 rocket, with a lot of help from a parent, but it can still be done, and it is then their very own. Where is the fun in launching a ready made rocket?

We give an Estes rocket kit to every Cub (all levels) who makes their popcorn sales goal of $350. Then in August we hold our Pack Picnic and Rocket Shoot. The easiest level rocket works for all levels. The younger ones need more help from an adult putting it together, the older ones not so much. Only the adults handle the engines, and put the rockets on the launching pads. The kids get to push the launch button. This is a VERY popular activity for the Pack. We invite prospective new new Scouts, and always have a big crowd. You will need a LARGE open space, with room for the rockets to get blown off. We use a large county picnic grove with a shelter. We have pop-up flys that we use for rocket headquarters. These are manned by the adult "Rocketeers" and their helpers (Den Chiefs), and can be put where needed to take into account the wind direction.

Baden, I do understand the difference. It seems I missed the word RANK in your statement. No, Venturing does not have ranks, or advancements, in the "scouting sense". Possibly because Venturing is a different program from Scouting. However while Venturing's awards are achievement based, BSA does consider them a type of advancement. The Venturing Methods include the following - "Recognition. Recognition comes through the Venturing ADVANCEMENT PROGRAM and through the acknowledgement of a youths competence and ability by peers and adults." Sorry, I also did not realize you were speaking about pre-Venturing Exploring as you stated "Now" in your original comment, and did not make the distinction that you were in fact talking about Senior Scouting Explorer Scouts.

>>"Many people may even shy away from it, for fear it is a platform for the holy rollers."

>>" Now there are Explorer and Venturing units organized for special purposes, such as Fire and Rescue, Shooting Clubs, Law Enforcement, Sports Medicine, etc., etc. who do not use a traditional scouting program per se but are considered part of the BSA, remember there are no official rank advancement programs, with the exception of Sea Scouts, associated with these groups."

You might consider changing your Crew's CO to a gun club of some kind.

>>"it would mean more for people to see the rank."

I can understand your problems with people getting awards they have not earned. However, all awards have to be approved by someone. Assuming that an award was not earned simply because YOU do not personally like an individual, or YOU do not see how they met the award requirements is not very courteous. Perhaps you just don't know the person well enough, or know the full story behind their requirements for the "unearned" awards. Either way, it is out of your hands. As for the problem you posted about in your opening post - It is always a good idea to make sure an award is still active before applying for it, and to make sure the application is sent to the correct place for processing. As AvidSM stated, neither the National Presidents Scoutmaster Award of Merit, or the Unit Leader Award of Merit, must be approved by National. Both awards are approved, and processed by, YOUR COUNCIL. The unit's Committee Chair is responsible for sending the completed application form to their LOCAL COUNCIL SERVICE CENTER, not to National. The unit is NOT responsible for purchasing the awards. You stated you sent a check of $1.50 (for a fancier certificate from NESA), along with the application to National. Who did you make the check out to? Since this is a defunct award it is possible no one at National knew what your check was for. I would send a copy of the cashed check to whatever department at National, or NESA, cashed it, and request a refund. When you reapply for the Unit Leader Award of Merit, make sure you read the application form COMPLETELY, and fill it out CORRECTLY. You must send the completed application, and attachments, to your COUNCIL SERVICE CENTER for approval, and processing. No checks are needed. It will be up to your Council if/how the award is presented.

I would contact your District Training Chair and talk to him/her. Contact info can probably be found on your council's web site.

Every Troop already HAS behavior rules that every Scout, and adult leader, should know by heart. They are the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. I recommend that the parents ask their Scout sons to repeat it to them periodically. Any other behavior by-laws are unnecessary.

From the BSA Guide to Safe Scouting - Discipline used in Scouting should be constructive and reflect Scouting's values. Corporal punishment is never permitted. The BSA has the expectation that all participants in the Scouting program will relate to each other in accord with the principles embodied in the Scout Oath and Law. One of the developmental tasks of childhood is to learn appropriate behavior. Children are not born with an innate sense of propriety and they need guidance and direction. The example set by positive adult role models is a powerful tool for shaping behavior and a tool that is stressed in Scouting. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit. Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit. As has been stated, without actually being there, it is hard for us to give accurate advise. However, from what has been posted I can give you my 2 cents! All 3 ASM's were off base. Being 600 miles away from home It would have to be a MAJOR incident to make me send 2 Scouts home. ASM #1 overreacted by leaving camp and then the Troop. ASM #3 has no idea what he is talking about. Yes, ADD, and its associated other problems, is a disability. Yes, it could explain WHY the fight happened. BUT, it is NOT a free pass, and an excuse for bad behavior. Kids with ADD/ADHD have a real need to learn how to curb themselves, and how to deal with others. The committee member's comment about boys being boys is almost as unthinking as the comment by ASM #3. Yes, being brothers does put a minor bit of a different spin on things. At least the nonsense was all kept in the same family, without other boys being injured. If I was SM, I would probably have done a bit more than just tell them to stay away from one another. I would have found out the problems, and then taken them over to their father (since he was there and G2SS recommends including parents) to discuss - together - ways to deal with their behavior. Perhaps some kind of project that they must work together to complete (helpful, courteous, obedient). There is a BIG unknown here, that could explain why some wanted the boys kicked from camp, and/or kicked from the Troop, and why the one family left the Troop. Is this type of aggressive/violent behavior an ongoing problem between these two boys? Are one, or both, aggressive toward other boys? Have they ever hurt another youth? A yes answer to one, or more, of those questions would change the entire scope of the problem. However, unless there was a real chance that they would harm another Scout, I would not have sent them home.