ScoutNut

You stated in your very first post that you knew what the BSA rule was on den camping. What is with your comment - "I'm not gonna say wether they should or shouldn't." You are the Cubmaster. It is your job as CM to tell leaders they shouldn't do something when you KNOW they are/will be breaking the BSA rules. And, you do know. The whole 2 Bear dens are the same as an entire Pack, well, really? That's just rather unbelievable. So is the concept that if you tack a den meeting on the front end and don't stay for breakfast, it's not camping.

>>"As far as my honesty, if I was planning on being dishonest, cheating the system and going against the program...why would I bother asking anybodies advice? If I was going to sneak by or flat out ignore the rules, I'd just do it."

If your CM was telling every adult at Roundup that they needed to fill in an Adult Application, then I am pretty sure that the one guy who said he had a suspended license, and did illegal drugs, was simply doing his best to make sure his application for membership was NOT accepted. The references are there for a reason. Yes, we check them. It is the Charter Organizations job, thru the COR, and you, the CC, to find the best possible leaders for the CO's BSA unit. These people will possibly be leading YOUR son. If you are not going to check them out before recommending that the CO and your council accept their membership application, why not just pull in a total stranger off the street? Unless you need volunteers immediately, I would suggest you get to know the new people somewhat first. That will make it easier to find them jobs they will enjoy and do well. What kind of YPT did you do for the adults? Did you facilitate the Cub Scout Leader Youth Protection Training using the DVD and training quiz? If so, do you give the participants trained cards and report their training to your council? Or are you doing the "It Happened To Me" video?

We have a local Moose Lodge that is a wonderful CO for several BSA units. BTW - If the service organization has good facilities they are willing to let you use, I think you would be foolish to stay at the school.

Den camping -- YES really. It does not matter if you have 1 Bear den, 2, or 3, it is a DEN OVERNIGHTER, and does NOT include the entire Pack. How does the saying go? If it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, you can call it a rino, but it will still be a duck. From the Guide to Safe Scouting in BOLD print (that means it is a BSA rule) - "Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America." Now, I suppose if you can get the area approved for Cub Scout camping (you SHOULD have done this for your real Pack overnighters), put on the Tour Permit that the overnight is for the Pack, and NOT ONLY for the Bear dens, or call it something that does not sound like the Bear den overnighter that it is (like an outside lock-in), you might be able to finagle an approved Tour Permit. It sounds to me like you are planning to justify this to yourself one way or another, and will go ahead with this, no matter what the BSA rules are. However, my main gripe is if you are not prepared to follow the BSA program, why are you in the program at all? How does this kind of thing teach/model HONESTY to the boys? Sheesh.

Welcome to Scouting and the forum! It is to bad you did not feel comfortable rejoining sooner. Youth Protection training is not new. It has been around for many years. I first took it in 1995, as part of my leader training, and it was not new then. Just a request - Please utilize the concept of paragraphs when posting. It makes it a LOT easier to follow. Happy Scouting!

What exactly do you mean by "not be on the same page as the rest of the pack"? What Pack programs is he not cooperating with? Are the boys (your son included) having fun, learning, and working on various requirements? Nowhere is it required that a den leader give a reason every time they miss a meeting. I am assuming that you, as assistant CM, are at all Pack Leader meetings. Why can't you, as a den parent, simply act as the representative for your son's den at the meeting? After the meeting, stop by the den leaders house to give him an update of what he missed. I don't understand why you have an issue.

campfire stated - >>"Is everyone doing the Cub Scout 2010 program which has the Webelos bridging to Scouting in December?"

I would NOT recommend closing your troop's current bank account, and switching banks. There is absolutely no reason to go thru all of that. Sheilab, the FIRST thing I would recommend that you do is to sit down with the former Treasurer, go over everything with her, and have her explain it to you. This is something you need to be able to understand. You need to get a copy of the "Troop Committee Guidebook" from your Scout Shop, or order online from ScoutStuff, the National supply division. The Treasurer's duties per the Troop Committee Guidebook - Handle all troop funds. Pay bills on recommendation of the Scoutmaster and authorization of the troop committee. Maintain checking and savings accounts. Train and supervise the troop scribe in record keeping. Keep adequate records in the "Troop/Team Record Book". Supervise money-earning projects, including obtaining proper authorization. Supervise the camp savings plan. Lead in the preparation of the annual troop budget. Lead the Friends of Scouting campaign. Report to the troop committee at each meeting. There is also a chapter on troop finances. Here is a copy of "The Unit Budget Plan" which has been updated somewhat by Scouters from the Swan Creek District of the Erie Shores council - http://www.swancreekdistrict.org/UofS/Unit_Budget_Plan.pdf You said you know how to use Excel, but not how to program it. Sorry, but you DON'T know how to use Excel. I would recommend you go to the Microsoft Office web site and look up Excel under the Support option. They have all sorts of helps there. You can also do a search for a budget template. (This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

As I stated, per the Webelos Handbook, the requirement is simply to earn the belt loops. Do YOU have an "authoritative source" which states the new belt loops can NOT be used? Something published/written AFTER these belt loops were released? The criteria for Cub Scout is to DO YOUR BEST. If you feel the need for something more than what is in the boys Handbooks, you can always e-mail BSA National your questions. program.content@scouting.org

BSA has a publication called - "Cub Scout Den & Pack Ceremonies". It is available from your local Scout Shop. For online resources you can check out the following - http://macscouter.com/Ceremony/ http://insanescouter.org/c/146/webelos.html http://usscouts.org/bbugle.asp Many are theme based, or Indian based. If your Pack is using a theme of some kind for your September Pack meeting you can look for a ceremony that would go with the overall theme. Edited to add that the Baloo's Bugle site at the end has ceremonies written into Pack Meeting outlines. So do the BSA Cub Scout Program Helps - http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/CubScouts/Leaders/Cubmaster%20Resources.aspx#_helps (This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

TenBears, in case you do not understand the difference, there are two kinds of Scout Shops. Those owned and operated by the National Supply Division, and those owned and operated by the local council. The National Scout Shops are usually more strict about following National's rules, and usually carry more merchandise. The locally owned Scout Shops are often more relaxed, and carry a smaller inventory. The Scout Shops of the Greater St Louis Area Council are National Scout Shops.

BSA does not publish new versions of their books every few months, or even every few years. Reprint old versions, yes, publish brand new versions, no. The belt loops list in the Webelos Handbook was complete at the time that handbook was published. The LIST is NOT the requirement. It is there as a help, and a convenience. The REQUIREMENTS are - While a Webelos Scout earn sports belt loops for two individual sports. While a Webelos Scout earn sports belt loops for two team sports. The new belt loops CAN be used to fulfill these requirements.

The Academic and Sports program is NOT "designed to be individual in nature". It can be, but that is NOT the ONLY way. It can also be done as a group. Per BSA - Having a Pack charge for participation to cover the cost of the program is completely OK. From the 2007 version of the Cub Scout Academic & Sports Guide - "Participation may take place at home, with the family, or within a den, a pack, or the community." "Each Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Scout will be presented with the appropriate recognition item for completing the requirements, whether he does so as an individual Scout, with his family, with his den or pack, or in his school or community." "One member of the pack committee should be responsible for coordinating the Academics and Sports program and overseeing the integration of the Academics and Sports activities into the pack program." "Pack leaders should encourage involvement by dens and families and make sure they have opportunities to participate." "The pack leadership can begin incorporating the Academics and Sports activities into the pack program during the annual pack planning meeting." "The pack leaders should also define how costs of the program are budgeted, how requirements will be verified, when and how recognition takes place, and what constitutes a den or pack tournament." "Packs are encouraged to include the cost of these recognition items in their annual budgets. Packs may consider charging a fee to each participating Cub Scout and adult partner to cover the cost of the awards." "Packs should have a clear policy in place to determine whether the pack or the boys family will be responsible for the cost of awards that are earned more than once." For Pack22LeaderDad, consider the following - "The program supplements the existing advancement and recognition program for Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, and Webelos Scouts; it does not replace it. The program is one element of Cub Scouting, as are den and pack meetings, day camp, and other activities." "The primary focus of the program is on scholarship and sportsmanship." "Remember: The object of the program is to help boys learn a new skill or improve those they already possessnot simply to provide an opportunity for boys to earn additional recognition." Parents are not forced to purchase a Cub Scout belt. The Pack awards the boys the belt loops and pins they have earned. If the boy wants to simply keep them in a box in a drawer that is up to him. Tell me, which is more "unfair" - to give your Cubs the opportunities to learn new things, and to possibly discover a new lifelong interest - or to deny them those opportunities simply because a Pack's adults basically don't feel like doing it? I would recommend getting a copy of the current Cub Scout Academics and Sports Guide, and telling the other Pack adults that the only "credibility" being diminished is theirs, and the only thing "unfair" is their attitude. BTW - my Pack pays for all loops and pins earned by the boys. However, if our fundraising profits ever tanked, we would have to rethink that position. (This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

Scoutfish stated - >>"That one training night in the fall and in the spring might just be on a night that a leader cannot make it."

Per Scouting Magazine - The merit badge pamphlet is not yet available, but the Boy Scouts of America wanted to get the official requirements in the hands of Scouts and Scouters as soon as possible. The BSA knows that troops, districts, and councils will be planning spring and summer activities around this newest merit badge. Here are a few highlights of what Scouts will learn while earning Geocaching merit badge: * Precautions necessary to have a safe time while searching for geocaches * Geocaching etiquette and how the principles of Leave No Trace apply * Geocaching terms * How GPS technology works * Steps for finding and logging a cache * How to use geocaching.com, the official online home of geocaching But it isn't all "classroom work." The majority of the merit badge involves Scouts searching for geocaches. They'll also have the opportunity to create and hide their own caches. Click here to download the PDF that contains the final, official requirements. http://scoutingmag.typepad.com/files/geocaching_mb.pdf

If the Geocaching MB requirements on Scouting Magazine are not official, and the MB can not be earned until Fall of 2011, then why was the MB on the MB Midway at Jamboree? Why did National allow boys to work on the MB there?

>>"The only thing I didn't like was that the scenerio seems to be for people who are brand new to scouting and never having a single minute of interaction in scouting."

The only time I have ever heard of a Venturing Crew formed for a one time only activity is when our council registers youth volunteer staffers (usually females and unregistered adults) for Cub Scout Camp. The council camp acts as the CO. As for how to form a new Crew, BSA has a "New-Unit Organization Process" that should help you with that - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/TheNew-UnitProcess.aspx

Rather than try to figure out how to get this boy swimming on your own, I suggest the family pops for swim lessons on their own. A specialist in working with the disabled, or a physical therapist, might already know of swimming techniques that would work for him. Actually, since it seems he has some use of his limbs, swimming might be great physical therapy for his right side.

https://myscouting.scouting.org/

Tenure is based on recharter date. Request a new print out to see if the number of months change based on current date.(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

Earning a religious award has nothing to do with BSA. It is earned (usually individually) thru your religious organization. The religious organization approves its completion, and presents their award. To receive the BSA square knot, or knot device, the Scouts should only have to show the award received from his religious organization, or a copy of the completed/signed form from the back of his religious award booklet, to the BSA unit Award/Advancement person.

Reporting advancement will NEVER force a Cub Scout out of a Pack. Please read your Cub Scout Leader Book. A boy can stay in Cub Scouts (the Pack) until the end of the 5th grade school year, or he is 11.5 years old - whichever comes LATER. As I stated earlier - AOL and moving onto Boy Scouts are 2 DIFFERENT and ENTIRELY SEPARATE things! Since your son has no friends in his Webelos den (what a shame), then moving him into the homeschool BS Troop in October should be fine. Please do NOT WAIT until October to award him his AOL. Working with your son at home, when all other Webelos must work in the den, or bring in their work to be approved by you before getting credit, is why your son, and none of the other boys in your den, has earned AOL. You are right to be concerned at how this appears. Please - make sure you are giving the other Webelos in your den every opportunity to earn their AOL in a timely fashion also.

The Cub Scout position specific training is finally up and running online at MyScouting E-Learning! There is a module for each Cub level (Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Webelos), Cubmaster, Pack Trainer, and Pack Committee.