ScoutNut

I would not say that your SM is definitely wrong in how he is going about it. In order to properly "test" this requirement, if done outside of the Troop, I would still say that Shortridge's method is the best one to use. Having a Scout describe what he did, would be my next choice. Simply accepting a Scout at his word with no testing at all would not be an option for me.

ctabor2, I do not think that anyone has been unfriendly here. You are obviously not the CM, or the CC. Are you a registered den leader, committee member, or an unregistered parent? You really should talk to the CM before going over anyone's head. If you don't feel the CM will listen, or do anything, contact your Pack's Unit Commissioner. If you do not know who that is, call your Council and get the contact info for your District Commissioner. Ask the Commissioner to talk to the CM, and the COR. The COR, and the Head of the Charter Organization are the folks who "hired" the CC, and are the only ones who can "fire" him. If your Charter Organization is unwilling to change the CC, and the CC is unwilling to follow the BSA program, your only options at that point are - To move to a Pack that follows the BSA program, and possibly take many of the current Pack families with you. To start a new Pack at a new Charter Organization.

Shortridge's way is the way to go. As to how, exactly the requirement is written, I do not have a copy of the current Boy Scout Handbook (son's is pre-EDGE requirement), or the current 2010 Boy Scout Requirements book. However, the requirement, as shown on the BSA National Web site, is - 4. Demonstrate * 4a. Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope. * 4b. Demonstrate that you know how to tie the following knots and tell what their uses are: two half hitches and the taut-line hitch. * 4c. Using the EDGE method, teach another person how to tie the square knot. Can anyone verify if either the current Boy Scout Handbook, or the 2010 Boy Scout Requirements book, does NOT have the word "Demonstrate" at the beginning of requirement number 4?

Nope, no can do. This is Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts. The level a Cub is in is based on his age, or grade, not on weather or not he has completed the requirements for an award, even a rank award. If his son has indeed completed the entire Wolf Handbook over the summer, than he is eligible to receive his Wolf rank award. He is still a Wolf Cub Scout however, and attends the Wolf den meetings. Perhaps the Wolf den leader can make him a Denner, and he can help the other Wolf Cubs in his den. He is NOT a Bear. The youth application describes the qualifications for each Cub level. The Cub Scout Leader Book does also. You can find information on the BSA Cub Scout program on the BSA National Web site, along with online training - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Leaders.aspx Every registered adult in your Pack needs to be trained, and learn BSA policies and procedures of how the program is to be run. I strongly suggest you talk to your Charter Organization Representative about this person. I think that a change of CC's is in order, and it is up to the COR to do that. BTW - the emailing is not a bad thing. The only problem here is that the den leaders are not following up on the emails by going over the info with their den families, and possibly handing out hard copy reminders.

Remember, there are 4 steps in Boy Scout advancement - learning, testing, reviewing, and recognition. Here is what the BSA Advancement Committee Policies, and Procedures book states about the testing step - "A Scout may be tested on rank requirements by his patrol leader, Scoutmaster, assistant Scoutmaster, a troop committee member, or a member of his troop. The Scoutmaster maintains a list of those qualified to give tests and to pass candidates." So, no, a SM does NOT have to simply take the Scouts word that he has completed a requirement, any requirement. It has nothing to do with how trustworthy a Scout is, and everything to do with following the second step, testing, in Boy Scout advancement. While dg98adams did accurately quote the requirement, he left off one very important word at the beginning of Tenderfoot requirement #4 - DEMONSTRATE. In requirement #4, a Scout is required to demonstrate 3 different things. One of those is "Using the EDGE method, teach another person how to tie the square knot." It states demonstrate, not describe. An we all know - "No council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from advancement requirements." If the SM approves a parent to be qualified to test, and approve this requirement, then I would have no problem with a Scout demonstrating this at home with a neighbor, or friend.

Here is another meaning of the Pledge - I pledge allegiance (I promise to be true) to the flag (to the symbol of our country) of the United States of America (each state that has joined to make our country) and to the Republic (a republic is a country where the people choose others to make laws for them -- the government is of, by and for the people) for which it stands, (the flag means the country) one nation (a single country) under God, (the people believe in a supreme being) indivisible, (the country cannot be split into parts) with Liberty and Justice (with freedom and fairness) for all. (for each person in the country...you and me!)

I forgot to add the final part of Red Skelton's speech - " Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the Pledge of Allegiance - "Under God". Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said, "That is a prayer" and that would be eliminated from schools, too?"

It sounds like you have some kind of Committee. Do you have a CC? Do you have a COR? How active is your COR? Hearing about how good, or bad, our CO's and Committee's are is not going to help you. You need to deal with how YOUR Committee and CO are. First of all, the people in your Pack need to be trained on what their own position entails, and then do their job. A CM should not be responsible for "recruiting support folks". You can help certainly, but recruiting adult volunteers is one of the jobs of the CC. Another of the jobs of the CC is running the monthly Pack Leaders Meeting. The job of the CM is MAINLY Program. The CM works with the CC, and the Committee on administrative stuff, but the administrative side is mainly the job of the CC and the Committee. What your Pack needs is to do, first and foremost, is to recruit a CC who is trained, knows their job, and will do their job. After that, if you decide to accept the CM position, I would drop the DL job. There is a very good reason that BSA will not let folks register in more than one position in a single unit. Doing one job well is a LOT of work. I would also make it clear that the position I was taking was NOT a combined CM/CC position. BTW, even if you are the CM, you can still be your son's Tiger Partner, just not also his Tiger den leader. Ultimately, no matter what we say to you here, the decision of weather or not to go for CM, is totally up to you, and your wife.

NOTE - At the end of the article it states - "Production on the badge and pamphlet will begin soon, and you should expect to see both at your local Scout Shops by the end of December." It would be nice if all of those Scouts who have already earned this MB could actually get their badge before the first of the year!

Eagle Palms are another thing to consider. After everything this family has done, do you really think that you would have no trouble with them over the leadership requirement for Palms?

So, Mike, what did you end up telling these parents? Did you give them the OK to send in applications? Did you tell them you had to take it up with the Committee? What? IF you have given them any kind of an indication that their son might be able to come back, you owe it to them to at least talk it over with the CC and the Committee. Personally, if it were me, as soon as they made the comment about their son taking over the Troop I would have said - sorry, but I don't feel it will be a good match, and then offered to get them contact info for other Troops. BTW - you stated that they felt their son would be the "highest ranking Scout" because he was an Eagle. Does that mean that your Troop currently has no Eagle Scouts? Do your boys tend to leave when they reach Eagle? Do most make Eagle right before their 18th birthday? Just trying to see where their ideas are coming from.

From "The Pledge of Allegiance According to Red Skelton" *I* -- me, an individual, a committee of one. *Pledge*--dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self-pity. *Allegiance*--my love and my devotion. *To the Flag*--our standard, Old Glory, a symbol of freedom. Wherever she waves, there is respect, because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts freedom is everybody's job. *United*--that means that we have all come together. *States*--individual communities that have united into 48 great states. 48 individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose, all divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common purpose, and that's love for country. *And to the Republic*--Republic, a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And government is the people and it's from the people to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people. *For Which It Stands* *One Nation* -- One nation, meaning, so blessed by God. *Indivisible* -- incapable of being divided. *With Liberty* -- which is freedom, the right of power to live one's own life without threats or fear or some sort of retaliation. *And Justice* -- the principle or qualities of dealing fairly with others. *For All*--For all... which means boys and girls, it's as much your country, as it is mine."

This program does not start until Jan 1, 2011. The only thing that has been released yet is what the criteria will be for the awards. To get further information, I suggest you attend one of the Webinars which start tomorrow. Here is the webinar schedule - http://www.nwtcbsa.org/images/stories/pdf/jte_roll_out_schedule.pdf Here is where you go to register for a webinar - http://journey-to-excellence.kintera.org/district-unit

The Journey to Excellence Quality Award program does not officially start until Jan 1, 2011. I doubt very much if any website will be up, and running, before that. The award criteria is about the only thing that has been released as of yet, and about the only thing that most of us here know about. If you want more information, I suggest you sign up for one of the upcoming BSA webinars explaining the program. The first webinar for volunteers affiliated with a Troop is Thursday, Oct 14, 2011, at 11AM. Here is the webinar schedule - http://www.nwtcbsa.org/images/stories/pdf/jte_roll_out_schedule.pdf Here is where you go to register for a webinar - http://journey-to-excellence.kintera.org/district-unit

>>"Try to make at least half the den meeting activities a parent/cub activity (mostly the crafts and games). I only give parents half a chance to sit on the sidelines"

>>"Why would you assume I would not have BALOO training? No need for all caps and snarky remarks."

Taking BALOO training (which is REQUIRED to take a Pack camping) will help with many of your questions. You said - "its unlikely that both mom and dad and the scout's siblings are going to want to spend their weekend at camp." Why would you say that? Based on one summer camping trip? Our Pack has always had great participation from the entire family. It is fun to watch the Girl Scout siblings teach the boys a thing or two! Since time is short to reserve cabins for this winter so you need to get an approximate headcount ASAP. Find out if there is interest from entire families. Call your council service center and ask what the capacity is for both cabins. If the cost is not to great, you might want to consider renting both cabins. Having more room is never a bad idea. Unless you only get 3 families to attend. You might also want to be clear on your council's refund/cancellation policy. With a Scout/Parent overnighter, depending on the sizes of the rooms, and the number of attendees, you could have boys and dads in one room, with a blanket on a rope dividing the two, and moms in the other room. Or you could have all of the boys in one room, and the adults in another with a blanket on a rope separating them into M/F. Or with two cabins you could do boys in one and adults in another. With a family overnighter, again depending on number of attendees, and room size, you could have boys/dads in one room, and girls/moms in the other. Both with separations for youth/adult. Or, with two cabins, boys/dads in one, girls/moms in another.

Obviously, every council is different, but we very, very, rarely have the District Training Chair act as a Course Director. Although I have asked our Training Chair to help staff if I was in a bind. As others have said, start getting staff lined up as far in advance as possible. Line up more than you need, so that if an emergency occurs you will be covered, and if it doesn't then you will have extra help. Make sure that each member of the staff gets a copy of the syllabus, and knows what section(s) they are responsible for. Make sure that everyone knows what your expectations of them are. After every course have the participants fill out an evaluation form. As part of that form have a place where they can indicate if they would be interested in staffing future courses. Don't forget to ask for contact info. Do not allow walk-ins. Advertise far enough in advance that you can give yourself a cut-off date for registrations that allows you to plan for the correct amount of attendees. Get regular (weekly) updates from council on the numbers registered, so that by the time the cut-off approaches you will have a pretty good idea of what the totals will be.

>>" So from what I have seen every boy in the den, with the exception of the CM's kid is out of luck this year. the DL and I are alredy getting pressure from the parents on what he is getting this is going to matters even worse."

Not sure who/what the GCUSA is, or what they have to do with this question. However the GSUSA is set up COMPLETELY differently from the BSA and should NOT be compared. GSUSA does not have Charter Organizations which "own" their Girl Scout Troops/Groups. All Troops/Groups are "owned" by the local Girl Scout Council. Most Girl Scout Troops/Groups are single grade/age. Others might be single Girl Scout level (Daisy, Brownie, Junior, Cadette, Senior, Ambassador), with multiple grades/ages. The fewest in number are those with multiple grades, ages, and levels. As a result, unless the Girl Scout Troop is made up of just the students from a religious affiliated school, they tend to cover a broad range of religious beliefs. Both AHG, and BSA, use Charter Organizations (many of which are religious institutions) which "own" their youth's units. This, in my opinion, is one of the main reasons for the connection between BSA, and AHG. BSA, always on the lookout to increase their numbers, sees the CO's which charter AHG units to be prime targets to convince to also charter BSA units.

What Info said. Most councils have numerous summer resident camp dates to choose from. All councils have more than one District. The person who told you that you could only sign up for the Day Camp in your District is incorrect. A registered Scout can attend events in any District, and in fact, in any Council. As a matter of fact, another District, or Council's event might actually end up being closer, more convenient, to you. One of the purposes of this award is to encourage Scouts to attend Council/District Summer Camps, that is why the first requirement is what it is. While Cub Scouts are flexible, award requirements still must be met in order to earn an award, and award requirements can/should not be changed. When you mention the description of a day camp in the "guide", I will assume you mean the Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines? That publication does state that "a day cam is from 1 to 5 days or evenings without a overnighter". However, it also states - "Day camp is conducted by the council/district under National Camp School leadership" and "Approval to conduct a day camp is granted by the council. Training for camp directors and program directors is provided through the National Camping School. All day camps shall be conducted in accordance with established standards as given in National Standards for Local Council Accreditation of Cub Scout/Webelos Scout Day Camps, No. 13-108." Local Cub "Advancement Days" are not generally under NCS trained leadership. They are usually one day affairs, promoted by the District/Council, but put on/run by a local Boy Scout Troop/Venture Crew. As others have said, the program is NOT just about the bling.

Wrong color? What color is that? Yellow, or green? Welcome all!(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

It was concluded two years ago. This is a very old thread that was resurrected.

The 2010 requirements for both merit badges are listed in the 2010 Boy Scout Requirements book. Rifle Shooting has not changed since 2002. Shotgun Shooting has not changed since 2007. Even if there were to be new requirements issued in 2011, if the Scouts start working on the merit badges now, under current requirements, they may continue to use those requirements to complete the merit badges.

BSA SPECIFICALLY states that boys advance at their OWN RATE. Neither this ASM, or anyone on this forum, can know, or tell you, how fast your son SHOULD be advancing. That is COMPLETELY up to HIM. Don't worry about the ASM who seems to have a control issue. I would not worry about his son, the PL, either. He is just doing as his dad is pushing him to do. I doubt he actually believes your son, his friend, did not complete requirements. If the ASM ever starts to become an actual problem then talk to the SM about it. You have talked to both the ASM who signed off your son, and the SM. Both agree that your son is doing fine. Your son has talked to the SM and has had a SM Conference scheduled. GOOD FOR HIM! It is NOT for you, or anyone else, to tell your son to postpone that SM conference. Scouting is fun with a purpose. Encourage your son to learn, and have fun, and let him do it HIS way. Good Luck!