ScoutNut

Most CEO's of large corporations make 6-figure salaries, or close to it. Make no mistake, a BSA council is still a business, and large councils are more than comparable to a large private, for profit, corporation. While a council's CEO might not require much in the way of camping equipment, they DO need to "beg money" to pay for equipment used at the council service center and at the council's camps. They need to "beg money" to pay for electric, water, and gas at the council's service center, and camps. They need to "beg money" to pay for repairs to council buildings, and properties. They need to "beg money" to pay for internet capabilities so that their members information can be given to National. They need to "beg money" to pay for insurance, retirement, and salaries for all of the council's employees. They need to "beg money" to pay for all of the programs put on by council. Camps, events, and trainings, do NOT pay for themselves. While most council SE's do not wear a BSA field uniform to work every day, they usually DO own one, and it is purchased with their personal funds, not donated, or paid for by the council. That "just a shirt and tie" they wear to work every day is usually a BSA dress uniform, which is also purchased with personal funds. >>"The only reason scouts are not supposed to solicit for themselves is because the donors may not be inclined to give a second time when the SE needs his money. And the SE will not stand for that!"

No DE can control school access. Unless of course he is also the Superintendent of the School District. Call your local school's Principal, and ask about their rules concerning sending home fliers. You might have to go thru your School District, and there might be specific language requirements, but the school's Principal should know about all of that. It is also possible that you have misunderstood your DE. Councils offer units free printing of fliers. You provide your info, and the council provides you as many fliers as you need - FREE. This is not an approval process. It is simply a nice recruiting help for units. You are not required to use it however. If your unit wants to spend its own money on paper, ink, and printing, go for it.

I never said that YOU held up awarding the AOL. I never said that there was anything wrong with how your Pack handles it's AOL ceremonies. I simply stated what MY Pack does, and why. My Pack does a fancy, impressive, ceremony every time we award any rank award badge, including the AOL. We do not exclude, or snub anyone. Because our presentation, and crossover, ceremonies are a part of our Pack meetings, the entire Pack is there to support, and celebrate, the accomplishments of all of their Scouts. While the AOL is the highest award in Cub Scouting, it is still considered a Cub Scout rank badge. No, not all Webelos earn AOL, but I would not consider it unique to do so. Nor would I consider a Scout who earned it "better than average", or a Scout who did not earn it "just average". Based on the percentage of Webelos earning AOL in MY Pack, it is in fact pretty common to earn this. We very rarely have a Webelos in MY Pack (I do realize everyone's situation is different) who does NOT earn it. However, the opening poster is NOT discussing a ceremony to present the AOL badge to Webelos Cub Scouts. He specifically states that the individual Packs will be doing that on their own, with their own units. What he is discussing is a District RECOGNITION ceremony program. You stated - >>"if only AOL Scouts were invited, well,that sounds kinda elitist to me. Pretty much snubs other scouts and tells them they are not good enough.">"It's not about those who didn't get it, who bareluy missed getting it, or those who didn't care to get it. It's about those who DID EARN IT!"

We award our Cub Scouts their AOL, and other awards, as soon as possible after they have earned it. We do not hold them, and wait. As a result, our Cubs have their AOL ceremonies as part of our monthly Pack meetings. Our Crossover to Boy Scouts ceremonies are also held during Pack meetings.

No one said that you should not recognize Scouts who have earned their AOL (which btw is not "above average"). I have no problem if a District wants to have an AOL recognition ceremony. I think it is fine idea. However, they should invite only those Webelos who have earned AOL. I also have no problem with a District recognizing Webelos who are close to, or have completed, their AOL at the District Webelosree. However, there is no point to inviting Webelos who have not earned AOL, to a program that is ONLY an AOL recognition, if there is nothing for them to do, and no reason for them to be there. It is an entirely different dynamic at a Pack AOL presentation ceremony. This usually happens at a meeting of the ENTIRE Pack. The group all know each other. Most/all of the Cub Scouts are usually receiving some sort of an award. For those Webelos not receiving their AOL, they, like the rest of the Pack, show those receiving the award the same courtesy as they received when they were up there receiving an award.

I kind of agree with Stosh. You are putting together what you call an AOL "Recognition program", and state it is not a ceremony. Yet from your description, it sure sounds like a ceremony to me. You also state you want to invite all second year Webelos to the program, but only have those who have earned, or received (wouldn't most of these already be in a Troop?) their AOL actually participate in the program. What are the rest of the Webelos supposed to do? Stand around and watch while Webelos, most of whom they don't know, participate in a program they are not a part of? Will they be allowed to talk to Troop reps, or is that only for program participants? It seems like a better option would be to hold a Webelos-ree, or Webelos Woods type of program in the early Fall for ALL Webelos (4th and 5th grade). Troop reps can then talk to ALL of the Webelos, and possibly get them interested in joining Boy Scouts. This seems to be better than waiting until the Webelos already have their minds made up, and one foot out the door.

Camp closer. A 1-2 hour drive might keep you more alert than a 2-3 hour one. Don't camp on Friday night. Get a good night's sleep Friday night, and leave early Saturday morning. If you are camping 3 hours away, you can leave at 5AM and be there and set up by 9AM.

As mn_scout stated - the BSA National Camping Award has been DISCONTINUED. Once your Scout Shop uses up the patches for camping nights that's it. The new unit program is now the National Outdoor Challenge Unit Award. You can find the application for it here - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/430-016_WB.pdf Information on the new Individual National Outdoor Badges, and the application, can be found here - http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

Ahhh, Feeder Packs. Hopefully someone has mentioned to these boys that they are not restricted to just their "Feeder Troop". They can join ANY Boy Scout Troop they want to. If the Troop they join is active, the Scouts will be doing their own share of fun, new stuff with their Troop. Including camping. If they do attend any Pack activities, they, and you, must realize that they can no longer participate as Cubs. Pack activities are for Pack Cub Scouts and their families. They would be there as observers/helpers only. If you have a separate section of your derbies for adults, and siblings, they can participate in those, but can NOT compete against the Cubs.

I think that the person that you need to talk to is the den leader, again. When he, finally, came to tell you he was "fed up" (by what/who?), what exactly did he say his responses were to these complaints?

Well there was the new post on 11/6 from SanDiegoScouting. Granted, it could just be a troll, but with divorced parents you never know. They do strange things sometimes.

It sounds like all of their issues with you were while you were still one of the dens leaders. You are no longer a leader for their den, so why are they still complaining? Are any of these parents in a leadership role in the den? What was the response of the den leader to these issues? Personally, my response would be if you don't like the way the den is run, put your time, and money, where your mouth is. Get yourself registered, and fully trained, and be a part of the solution. By the way, of the list of examples that you gave, the only one that had any merit was the one about the baseball belt loop. BSA allows parents to sign off on their Cub Scout son's work. The criteria for completion of requirements in Cub Scouts is Do Your Best, and parents are charged with knowing when their son has done his best. Once it has been signed off, we should accept it as a done deal, and not question it. We should definitely not put the Scout thru an interrogation.

After each training course (Council or District) we have the participants fill out a feedback sheet. At the end we ask if they would be interested in helping to staff a future course. Those leaders who indicate an interest are approached to help out in some way the next time that course is run. If they do a good job, and express an interest in getting more involved in training, they are invited to attend the next Train the Trainer (or whatever it is currently called) course. This gives us volunteers who are knowledgeable in the material, and who have been thru the courses. Often we will get trainers because a Course Director taps a friend/relative who has specific knowledge/skills to come help out. The one time helper will get on the "list" of folks available and is then hooked. Trainers are often unit Scouters, or past unit Scouters. They know other Scouters they have worked with, and can recommend those they feel might make good trainers.

Per the BSA Cub Scout Leader Book, the rule is you may register as a Cub Scout until you are 11.5, or have finished 5th grade - whichever comes LATER. What ever possessed you to register your son as BOTH a Cub Scout AND a Boy Scout? He can not be both at the same time. Since you decided to register him as a Boy Scout BEFORE he earned his AOL, and he is earning Boy Scout ranks, he is no longer a Cub Scout, and is NO LONGER eligible to earn AOL. Good Lord. What a shame. I am sure that the Pack could award him the AOL, even though he was no longer eligible, but personally, I would be worried that it might have an impact on his dates of Boy Scout rank when/if he decides to apply for his Eagle Rank. Unless they gave him the award, but did not record it with council via an Advancement report. However, a Scout is, or should be, Trustworthy, and Obedient.

John, your council is one of the twenty pilots, and it is requiring all DIRECT CONTACT leaders to be trained in 2010? According to all of the information on the National Web site, the pilot councils were to require all TOP leaders to be trained by 12/31/10. All DIRECT CONTACT leaders had from 01/01/11 to 12/31/11, to get trained. From some of the later notices, it even sounded like, because of training record issues, National was extending the TOP leader trained requirement into 2011 as well. Do you have any idea why your council is requiring all DIRECT CONTACT leaders to be trained by this year?

"(oh, and don't forget your Den Chiefs - they are also required to take the on-line Youth Protection training now, or so I have read)." Where have you read this? Nothing is stated about Den Chiefs on the Youth Protection section of the BSA National Web site.

The Bobcat requirements are - 1) Learn and say the CUB SCOUT PROMISE and complete the Honesty Character Connection. 2) Say the LAW OF THE PACK. Tell what it means. 3) Tell what WEBELOS means. 4) Show the CUB SCOUT SIGN. Tell what it means. 5) Show the CUB SCOUT HANDSHAKE. Tell what it means. 6) Say the CUB SCOUT MOTTO. 7) Give the CUB SCOUT SALUTE. Tell what it means. 8) With your parent or guardian, complete the exercises in the booklet, How to Protect Your Children from Child Abuse. Of these, the last one (8) is the only one where the handbook is really necessary because the booklet is in the front of the handbook. This is also the one requirement that takes the longest to complete because parents are slow to do it. The rest of the requirements can easily be completed in one month's worth of den meetings, so that the Bobcat can be earned by the Scout's first Pack meeting. If the elements (Promise, Law, Sign, Handshake, Motto, Salute) are used in the opening, and closing ceremonies of every den meeting, every year, they will soon become second nature to the Scouts. Remember, the criteria for completing requirements in Cub Scouts is DO YOUR BEST. That best is the individual CUB SCOUT'S best, not yours, or anyone else's. That best will vary from Cub to Cub.

>>"I am trying to figure out how 1 boy from a differnt den with a troop camping. Boys mom signed a permission slip , so I guess it gave the okay to the SM to take him?"

Of the four requirements you listed to be able to take a Webelos den camping, only one, the requirement for 2-deep leadership, is a BSA National requirement. The others are requirements in your council only. In my council the requirements for Webelos camping are - 2-deep leadership Tour Permit 1 registered adult with Youth Protection training 1 adult with Hazardous Weather Training We encourage a parent to accompany each Webelos. Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders is recommended, but NOT required, by National (or my council). CPR is only required, per the Local Tour Permit, for boating activities with Safety Afloat training, and climbing activities with Climb On Safely Training.

Just wondering, what happened to last years Wolf den? You said that she was the assistant den leader last year, which would seem to suggest that there was more Scouts in the den than just her son. Yet, you also said that of the 7 Bears, only 2 had been in Scouts before September 1st, her son, and one boy who joined 2 weeks before the end of the school year. How many Scouts did the den lose, and did you ever follow up with them to find out why everyone in the den left?

You can also have your den leaders, quietly, with the sign raised, walk into the group, and stand next to the loudest people. I have tapped chatters on the shoulder, and indicated the raised sign. Waiting - quietly - until everyone quiets down and raises their own sign is exactly the point. Trust me, it will not take 10 minutes. And if it does, you DID note they were having a good time, so it's your Pack's choice. Otherwise you might as well just yell out SHUT THE HECK UP EVERYONE!

If you have a single parent with younger siblings, I would ask the parent to first see if they could make alternate accommodations for their other children for the campout. Often grandparents, aunts, uncles, or even the other parent, will be more than happy to have them over for the one night. It is important to have the parents with their Webelos, especially if it is a campout with a Troop. This way the parent sees first hand how the Troop is run, and gets to know some of it's adults. If there is no other option, the Webelos can go with another parent. I would also recommend a signed permission slip stating exactly who is responsible for the Scout.

Welcome! Who is your new Pack's Charter Organization? What position are you registered in? How many Scouts of each level do you have? It can be difficult to have a small Pack without enough Scouts to form separate dens. The programs for the dens are rather different, so a combined, multi-level, den will definitely have it's challenges. If you have enough boys to separate the Tigers, and the Webelos, into separate dens, and leave the Wolf/Bears combined, that might help. Good Luck!

Moose, different councils recharter at different times. Sometimes districts within a council have different recharter dates. Mom2cub's location per her profile is Ft Myers, that is in the Panther District of the SW Florida Council. Panther District recharters in January. Mom2cub, don't just do phone interviews. Visit den and Pack meetings so that you can get a good idea of how they do things. Talk to the parents and find out what they like, and don't like about the Pack. When you find the right Pack for you, they can take care of switching your registration to their Pack. It should be fairly easy.

You know, re-reading some of the posts here, it seems to me that the issue you have with this DL is interfering with your ability to deal with her on any level. The Pack also does not seem to be supporting her den. You stated - "It would have been a no-brainer to participate. We also give 20% of popcorn sales to the boys for their scout account to help pay for uniform parts and summer camp or any unpaid registration fees. The den leader didn't even mention it in her meetings. The boys lost out." Yet in a prior post you stated - "the popcorn kernel did a presentation in her den that night and sent forms home with each boy." Why didn't the Popcorn Kernel tell the den about this in his popcorn presentation to the den? Why wasn't information on the Booth Sale, and the Scout Accounts included in the packet the Popcorn Kernel sent home with each boy? With the parents "sitting in the back of the room with their mouths hung open", it would have been the perfect opportunity to get the info directly to the parents, and to get them fired up about selling popcorn. It seems to me the "boys lost out" because of the Pack, as well as the DL. You stated - "We provided a calendar upon joining, send info to the parents by email [preferred contact method], but we know it takes parents hearing things several different times/ways before they realize "oh yeah, we need to sign up for xyz." The den leader needs to be part of providing information to their den, or needs to ask for help." When you KNOW that the DL is bad at passing along info to her den, why do you have to wait for HER to ask for help? Why not be proactive and send info along to the den by other means? By waiting for the DL to do, what you KNOW she will NOT do, it is the Pack, along with the DL that is letting these boys down. Also, if you HAVE given the families in her den a Pack calendar, and you HAVE sent info to her den families via email, why is it only the DL's fault that the families don't particulate in things. It seems to me that the families should take some of the responsibility too.