ScoutNut

From the BSA Insignia Guide - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/03.aspx "With the exception of the Cub Scout badges of rank and Arrow Points, members wear only the insignia that show their present status in the movement. Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered. Previously earned badges and insignianot representing present statusmake a fine display on a BSA red patch vest, a trophy hide or blanket, exhibited in the home of the recipient, or at functions where such a display is invited." "In Scouting, the advancement program is intended for youth members only. Scouters should neither seek awards designed for youth members nor wear them on the Scouter uniform except for square knots representing the Arrow of Light Award, Eagle Scout Award, Venturing Silver Award, Quartermaster Award, or religious emblems earned as a youth member." "The general rule is that badges awarded by organizations other than the Boy Scouts of America may not be worn on an official uniform. This includes military medals and service ribbons. There are, however, notable exceptions. Among them are religious emblems and those special badges approved by local councils in conjunction with the national Program Group Committee such as Historic Trails medals." So, short and sweet, no, you may not wear any of the official BSA awards you earned as a youth on your adult uniform. A much better idea is to make up a display of some sort that can be brought to den, and Pack meetings. However - You CAN wear BSA square knots that represent your having earned the award as a youth. See the list above from the Insignia Guide. You can also wear your Ad Altare Dei, and the Historic Trails medals above the left pocket. I would suggest only doing that on special occasions as they have a bad habit of falling off, and breaking. You can also select ONE unofficial patch to wear as a Temporary Insignia, centered on the right pocket. You can change your Temporary Insignia at any time, but you can only wear one at a time. Congratulations, and welcome! Happy Scouting!

If you are going to sell tickets, you better make sure you get this approved by your council. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34427.pdf Why not make the Fear Factor event a recruitment event itself, and sign up boys then and there?

If this has been going on for years, how has the Pack paid for all of it? Does your Pack have a set budget? How many Scouts are in the Pack? How much are your Pack dues? How much do you typically make on fundraisers? Talk to your COR and see if the Charter Org might be willing to pay the re-charter fees for all members of it's Pack. Many councils have incentive programs where units can get free rank awards. I do not know if your council has something like that, but I would suggest the Pack pay for all rank awards regardless. The Pack should have a firm policy on how many Academic and Sport belt loops/pins they will pay for per year. You might consider a way for those families who are truly in need to get financial help. Some councils will have scholarships for different things. All activities, and participation type patches, should be on a pay-as-you-go basis for those families who do not pay dues. (This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

Camp T-shirts have been the required Cub Scout day, and summer, camp uniform, for youth, adults, and staff, at my council for the past 15 years. It is a matter of youth protection, not a change to a casual uniform. Anyone can get a uniform. Only those registered, or working, at the camp get the t-shirts. It makes it instantly obvious who belongs on-site, and who does not.

If I was going to choose between paying for a cap, or a neckerchief, it would definitely be a necker. A cap is twice the cost of a necker, most boys will not wear a cap all of the time, and they are first thing to get lost. Neckers make it very easy to see what level a Cub is in, and when paired with a Cub-made slide, looks great!

If National will be paying council's salaries, how is that going to play out in the individual council finances? Will councils have to reimburse National? Will National significantly raise the amount it charges each council? Will National just eat that VERY large expense, leaving the extra in the council's budgets? Perhaps if all money and expenses were funneled thru National it might make sense. However, with the way it currently is, with each council being financially an independent entity, it just does not seem practical to me for National to take on that expense.

I third what Beav, and 2Cub are saying. BSA wants trainers to stick with the syllabus to help stop, or at least cut down on, "Urban Scouting Legends". As for insurance, and any other policies that varies by council, simply tell them WHAT YOUR COUNCIL REQUIRES. Also, let them know that THEIR CHARTER ORGANIZATION might require more, and that it is THEIR RIGHT TO DO SO. No lying, no fudging, no spreading rumors - just the facts. If someone asks the purpose of filing in a Local Tour Permit, this info in the Cub Scout Leader Book might be helpful - Your council is always concerned with the health, safety, and success of Scouting groups wherever they are. This permit and its application are designed to help you plan a safe, interesting, and enjoyable trip. In case of emergency, calls might come to your local council service center, so the office should know where your pack is. Your council would like to have a more accurate record of local tours and short-term camps in order to give each pack proper credit in its records and in news releases. Tour leaders take satisfaction in the fact that their tours are officially recognized and that they are responsible Scouting groups. Local officials in state and federal parks and forests can be assured that touring and camping groups have official status. Often, certain courtesiesnot privilegesare extended to Scouting groups when official status has been determined. Moose, I would recommend that your son stop fighting with his Charter Organization over their requiring a Tour Permit. It is their call. Even if their reasoning behind it is incorrect, and it makes life extremely inconvenient for your son, it's still their call to make. If he wants to fight over something, he should press his CO about REQUIRING correct information from the Troop members (especially the SM), in a timely fashion, in order to process the Tour Permits that THEY REQUIRE. He can emphasize the fact that having incorrect information on the the Tour Permits MIGHT not be a good thing if they are worried about insurance coverage. Especially if the adults trained in specific things, and listed on the permit as attending, are not actually going to be in attendance. He should be able to use their own insurance coverage paranoia to get them to lay the law down to the SM. If that does not work, he can always cancel an outing because of lack of leadership, and an approved Tour Permit. Just as when we let the boys mess up in order for them to learn, it would be a simple consequence to bad planning.

Per the Age-Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activities, found in the G2SS, winter camping is not recommended for Cub Scouts. From the BALOO syllabus - "The goal of the pack camping activity is to provide a successful pack camping outing that is: Fun Based on the purposes of Cub Scouting Successful in whetting the appetite of the Cub Scout, his parents, and the leaders to want more of the outdoors" "It is very important that this first-time experience be a good onethat the young Cub Scout comes home wanting more." From the Cub Scout Leader Book - "Many Cub Scouts will have their first overnighter as a member of your pack. It is critical that you make every effort to help this be the most positive experience it can be for boys. If a boy has a negative experience, he may choose never to go camping again." "Because every effort should be made to make these first campouts positive for the participants, wintertime camping activities or planning outings during potentially inclement weather are discouraged." The Guide to Safe Scouting states this about winter camping - "It is one of the most advanced and challenging of outdoor adventures." The above reasons are why winter camping is not considered appropriate for Cub Scouts. Saschuster, I would recommend that you leave below freezing, polar bear camping to Boy Scouts. If you decide to cabin camp, you should still make sure that all of the adults, and youth, attending have the proper clothing, and equipment. You must also take into consideration if your Pack camping overnighter will include younger siblings. You want everyone to be safe, have fun, and leave wanting more.

>>"But, you would think that if it was based on an incorrect reason.. The fact that they feared we may not be covered under BSA insurance without a tour permit.. Someone may have corrected that, when we on numerous occasion stated why our COR had made a stricter policy.">"Problem is that our SM insists the scouts can not possibly know if they can go on an event until the Troop meeting before the event. So my son only can do a tour permit at the earliest around 10pm on the Thursday night when the event will start either that Friday night or Saturday morning"

>>"Our council always did have a policy that you need the tour permit unless meeting at your normal weekly meeting place, or within the city/town of you meeting area.">"Our COR insisted that we put in a tour permit for any in-town event that was not at the normal meeting place, or normal meeting time.. Why? Because she did not believe the Insurance was covered if we did not do the Tour Permit every time we met as a scouting unit when not in our weekly scheduled meeting.">"Council tried to tell us we did not need it for in-town events, but when stating our COR required it and why, they never stated the Tour Permit was not for the purpose of insurance. They just would then process the paper work."

The SM calling for a uniform inspection might not have been fully appropriate, but then your response, in the middle of Summer Camp no less, that you would get the Committee to vote on how the SM was doing his job was not appropriate either. Not to mention that a SPL can not tell a unit Committee, or a council district, what they should do. You can NOT - "contact district and get him out". That is NOT THE JOB of the SPL. While ideally, a Troop is run by its boy leaders, it is done so under the guidance of the Scoutmaster, who is ultimately responsible for the Troop's program. You need to reign in your attitude as well. Negative confrontation will NOT accomplish anything. You might want to go back and re-read your notes/publications from NYLT. Talk to a friendly ASM, and see if he/she can approach the SM about how he is dealing with the boy-run concept. At the next PLC talk to the SM POLITELY about backing off of his boy leaders a bit to give them a chance to grow in their position.

>>"But heres the thing the DE and the DFS did not give this SM the answer of NO or Only with written medical proof of a disability.. Instead they came to my husband and said, It is your decision on what you wish to do as an alternative, or if you wish to do one.. This makes is seem like it is not as cut and dry as you all make it out to be."

Just wondering where your Charter Organization is in all of this? Also, while the Troop DOES sound dysfunctional, it also sounds like, over the years, there has been miss-communication, confusion over job requirements, and confusion over what the program is, on both your part, and the part of the other Pack, and Troop leaders. I think that it is a good thing that you (and your wife?) have gotten fully trained.

This sounds a bit shady to me. Unless you are VERY sure that the email you received REALLY DID come from Buckskin Council, I would be very careful. Personally I would contact the council directly to verify this before purchasing anything from that site.

The Cub Scout Leader Book, and the Cub Scout Outdoor Guidelines, both state that a Webelos den campout is under the direction of a Webelos den leader who has completed basic training, and who SHOULD (NOT MUST) be trained in Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders. Neither the Guide to Safe Scouting, or the Local Tour Permit, states that any outdoor training is REQUIRED for a Webelos den campout. All BSA resources - The Cub Scout Leader Book, and the Cub Scout Outdoor Guidelines, the Guide to Safe Scouting, and the Local Tour Permit - state that at least one adult present on a PACK (not DEN) overnighter MUST (NOT SHOULD) be trained in BALOO. HOWEVER - Local councils are allowed by BSA National to make stricter (NOT less strict) requirements. Some councils require Webelos dens to have only a BALOO trained person along. Some councils require Webelos dens to have only a Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leader trained person along. Some councils require a Webelos den to have BOTH. Some councils do not require any outdoor training at all for a Webelos den campout. To find out what the requirements for Webelos den camping are in YOUR council, contact the person at your council service center who is in charge of approving Local Tour Permits. (This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

I know of a number of boys who had a severe fear of water, and could not complete the swimming requirements. After a bit of maturity, and some swimming lessons, the boys passed nicely. Give the families the resources, then it is up to them. It is NOT up to the DAC to push boys thru requirements.

Because after 3 years of being a Girl Scout tag-a-long, he was ready to be a Scout on his own. Because given decent leaders (which is how I got sucked in!), Scouting (Girl, Cub, or Boy), is the best all around youth program out there.

You said your son has friends in the 5th grade den. How about talking to their den leader about letting your son attend some/all of their meetings, and outings also? There is no problem with doing this from a BSA regulation standpoint as he is a Webelos. Doing this will give him a broader program, help him complete AOL requirements, and perhaps gain him the confidence he needs to cross to Boy Scouts with the 5th grade Webelos.

If your den/Pack does a pool activity then there should be at LEAST one, more is better, adult present who has taken Safe Swim Defense. Any parent who states their son has completed the "swimmer pin" should be able to give you a signed note from someone (swim teacher, coach, lifeguard at neighborhood pool, etc) stating exactly what the Webelos did. Unless the Webelos den leader has specifically given the parent the ability to approve the requirements for Aquanaut a note from the parent stating the son did the requirements in the family pool would not cut it. Independant (not done at den meeting) Webelos work must be documented by the Webelos, and approved by the den leader. If a Webelos is on a swim team getting their coach to sign off on the requirements for Aquanaut should be easy. BTW - passing the BSA test for Swimmer is only one option, out of several, for Aquanaut. It is not required. The Webelos could be only be a Beginner, or have never taken a BSA swim test, and still complete the Aquanaut Activity Badge. (This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

Your TDL needs to CLEARLY explain the program to her Tiger Teams. She needs to CLEARLY explain that EVERY Team MUST sign up for at LEAST XX number of meetings/outings. She needs to impress on her Teams that this is a way for them to learn more about the program, an opportunity to bond with their Tiger, and for their Tiger to experience a bit of leadership. A sign up sheet for each meeting date, per month, will help. Your den leader can even list what requirements she wants covered on each meeting date to help Teams pick the ones they are interested in. I would recommend having the Tiger requirements listed first. If she can't get commitments on meetings to far in advance, she can always pull out the signup sheets down the road. Once the Teams see how easy, and how much fun, running a meeting/outing can be, she will have more signups. The Tiger Teams also have to be confident that they will not be completely on their own. Your Tiger Teams (and Tiger den leader) have to know that they will get all of the help, and assistance, they need. Also, make sure that the Adult Partners are treated like members of the den, and not visitors. They sit next to their Tiger, and do EVERYTHING their Tiger does. They play games, sing songs, do crafts, participate in skits, say the Pledge, Promise, Law, Salute, get up in front of the entire Pack to receive awards, etc. The Tiger and his Adult Partner are a TEAM, and they participate in EVERYTHING together. If there are families that do not seem willing to lead, they can be gotten to help in other ways. Rotate Teams to lead the den's opening flag ceremony, start with Teams who have not signed up for meetings. Assign reluctant Teams to bring materials for projects, call den members with outing reminders, help teach a song/game, do some copying, etc. For the dates that are not covered by the den's Tiger Teams, the den leader takes charge. But the Teams should be brought into the planning as much as possible. Ask them for ideas, especially outing ideas. Tigers is a fun time learning abut Scouting. These families are the future of your Pack. Get them excited, and enthused by Scouting, and your Pack will not have a volunteer problem! Have FUN!

Sorry, but while your council BB gun course might be a vapid, shoot em up any old way course, I know that many council's are not. My council in particular, makes sure to coach the boys on proper shooting techniques. We make sure that each section is not to large to enable individual instruction as needed. With enough shooting stations, there is plenty enough time in a 45 minute class for the boys to prove they have the techniques down. Especially if they end up hitting a bulls-eye. If the range officer stated your son completed the Belt Loop for BB's, or Archery, you do not have the authority to overturn it.

>>"SM says "AT LAST!!! We can finally have a committee meeting again.""

Use a mattress, or some kind of padding, and have spotters on either side. In 15 years, I have never had a Scout injured doing these rolls. Remember, the criteria to measure if a Cub Scout has completed a requirement is that he has done his best. It does not have to be perfect, the boys just need to "Do Their Best".

Did the boys in question do any fundraising this year? Are there currently any funds in their Scout Accounts? After first approaching these families to ask that the loans be repaid, the Scout Accounts would be the next place I would go to pay back the loans. Unfortunately, it does not sound like your Troop has any clear idea of who borrowed the money ("one or both of these dads"), or how much was borrowed ("somewhere between $30 and $50"). That being the case, I would recommend the Troop simply writes it off. As for the rest of it, your Chartering Organization, in the person of your COR, can at any time, for any reason, decide to remove any adult, or youth, from membership in the unit. It sounds to me like your Troop is more concerned with not showing a reduction in numbers, of either youth or adults, then they are in actually facing this problem. The COR should tell the adults their services will no longer be needed by the Troop. The COR, and you, if you accept the position of CC, should then register some new Committee members who are willing to get fully trained, and have the best interests of all of the boys at heart. I would bet that these families will then pull their boys from the Troop. However, from the way you talk about the boys this will hardly be a problem for you.

>>"anything could be a belt loop. Hand washing loop, TV watching loop, Internet loop?"