ScoutNut

They are supposed to be in an article in the Alumni Newsletter. However none of the articles load. I am sure at some point BSA will finally look at the site say say - Whoops, and fix the connections. When is anybodies guess.

The best luck we have had is with word of mouth. Parent to parent, and kid to kid. Little Cubbie Scout talks to his buddies in class and on sports teams about how much fun he is having and how it would be great if his buddies could do those things with him and have fun too. Mr & Mrs Cubbie Scout talk to parents as they stand around waiting to pick up Cubbie from school, or while they are watching him play sports. They tell the parents how much fun Cubbie is having, how much he is learning, what Scouting is doing for him, and again, how much fun he is having, and how it would be nice to have their family in the den with little Cubbie. One year we had a 3 boy Tiger den recruit 6 more boys. All signed up at our last Pack meeting of the school year, and were off and running as Wolf Cubs all summer. As a bonus, all 3 Tigers were awarded the Recruiter badge.

The problem with giving them until school starts again in Fall to finish up their rank award is that they can not work in more than one Cub level at a time. So, nothing they do over the summer would count toward any requirements for their new Cub level. They would need to choose old level, or new level, not both. Also it is only the rank award that can be worked on, not electives, or other awards from the lower level. Cub Scouts is age appropriate. BSA automatically bumps Cub Scouts up to their new level on June 1st of every year, no matter what. BSA gives boys some leeway in finishing up their rank award, but they should really be concentrating on working in their new level, not earning everything they can in their old one.

I never said he was not doing his job. The OP stated he was having a problem with parents looking at him as a "free babysitter". That sounds pretty literal to me. I stated a way to avoid, or diminish, that problem. Using the the Tiger program, as written by BSA, works better at getting families involved in, and enthusiastic about, Scouting. If the adult partner is in attendance at every meeting, and is actively included in every activity the Tiger does, you are not going to have the "babysitter syndrome" problem.

Sorry, but I have been a "real world" Tiger den leader for 11+ years. Every year I let the parents know - up front - what is expected of them. I let them know - up front - that they will be required to attend every meeting, and do every activity, with their son. I let them know - up front - that if there is an emergency, where they will not be able to bring their Tiger son to a meeting/activity they can ask one of the other Tiger families to stand in for them and bring their Tiger son - to that ONE activity. In 11+ years, I have only had 2-3 Tigers who did not earn their Tiger rank award. Every year, in the "real world", I have 95-100% retention of Tigers, and they continue to be retained over the years, and even recruit new members to their den. So, don't pull the "it's not possible in the real world" card with me. It IS possible.

>>"did I mention that as Cub Leaders they nominated each other for OA? Yeah, really"

Immediate recognition is one of the main principals in Cub Scouting. Getting those Cubbies all the bling possible, as soon as possible, is also why the Cub Scout program was changed this year from home based to den based for working on requirements. BSA feels that the bling keeps the Cubbies interested. Hopefully long enough to transition to the Boy Scout program. That said, you can't really force a den leader to utilize beads and totems on their own. Bottom line, if a den leader is providing a good program to the Scouts in their den, and they are earning their various rank, and elective awards each year, there is no problem. If your Pack truly wants to insure that immediate recognition totems/beads are used by all dens, then your Pack should consider purchasing them, and presenting them, themselves. My Pack includes presentation of totems and beads with the monthly award presentations at Pack meetings. It works well for us. If the leaders do not want to be bothered keeping track of beads earned, then your Pack should consider getting some kind of Pack management system (ScoutManage, PackMaster, etc). This will help to streamline all aspects of advancement reporting, and Pack management. Your Pack can also incorporate teaching Scouting history at Pack meetings. The Blue and Gold celebration is perfect for this.

If you have been using the Tiger program running TEAMS of Tiger/Adult Partners working/playing together, and using Shared Leadership among the Tiger Teams in your den, you would not have anyone thinking you were a "free babysitter". They would be to busy having fun working with their Tiger at every den meeting. Also, by now, you should have had a good chance to see how the various Adult Partners interact with others in the den. It should be fairly easy to pick out which adults would make good future den leaders for the den. Keep an eye on them, and gradually give them more responsibility. Then, when you know for certain if you are going to be stepping down as den leader, you can approach them personally (with the approval of your CC, and CM) and ask them to step up as leaders for the den. If you promise (and follow thru on the promise) to give them any and all help they might need, there should be a fairly easy transition.

Keep in mind that, even using the new Cub delivery system, awards are not earned in group lockstep. Recognition should be given as soon as a requirement, or award, has been completed. You should not hold onto awards until everyone has finished. Also, the window to earn awards does not slam shut on the day of Blue and Gold. Scouts have until the end of the school year to complete the requirements for awards in their Cub level. For rank awards (not electives or others) they can even take a few more weeks, as long as they do not start working on requirements for awards at their new Cub level. There is a lot of flexibility in the Cub Scout program, and especially in the Bear program. You can do multiple den activities that can either be used toward rank, or electives. That way the boys who have completed a Bear requirement for rank, do not have to repeat the same thing again for boys who have missed it. They can participate in other requirements in the section and count them as electives, while boys who missed doing the first one can count this as a rank requirement. Never, ever, give away an award that has not been earned. If you get the boys, and their families, in the habit of doing things this way, they will be in for a real culture shock if/when they get to Boy Scouts. You will loose them completely at that point.

I am a bit curious about your issues with them as Day Camp staff. If they are doing/saying anything wrong to youth during Day Camp, why was it not immediately addressed then and there? You can bet your last Cub Buck that if I was a volunteer walker in charge of a den of boys at Day Camp, and someone swore at one of my boys, or called them names, I would have been all over it right then. I would have stopped the offending adult immediately, and taken my entire den to visit the Day Camp Director, and the resident attending Council professional. I would have also made a point of notifying the Council Inspection Team when they came thru. Letting an issue like that stew for months with out doing anything does no one any good, especially the boys.

As we have, repeatedly, told you, every COR is a member of the District Committee. Part of their job as COR is to attend District Committee meetings. The District Committee meeting is where your Charter Organization's voice should be heard. A "statement" to you, from other COR's, is not enough. As stated previously, you are responsible for only your CO's units, not the units of other CO's. The other COR's who have issues with these leaders need to get themselves, in person, to the next District Committee meeting. Multiple COR's (not CC's, they have no place in this), in person, all with similar complaints, attending the District Committee meeting, will get the attention of the District.

If you are not going to tell the entire story, all we have to go by is what you have told us. That is not much. As COR, you should do your job, and attend District, and Council, Committee meetings. That is where you can have direct input on what your District/Council does. As for the verbal abuse, it is hard to prove verbal abuse in the best of circumstances. In your case, all you have is the adults swearing at the youth once or twice. Nasty, but not necessarily verbal abuse. As others have said, if these people are on staff at a District/Council event, simply ignore them. If they say anything rude, or x-rated, to one of your youth - immediately - take that youth (and their parent if available) to talk to the director of the program. Include it on any comment form at the end of the program. Also, as others have said, you are not locked into attending only activities put on by your District. Look at attending events in other Districts, or even other councils. This includes trainings. While units do make up a council, it is not the job of one of those units to police the others. It is not your call to tell another unit what to do. It is not your call to even request it nicely. It is not your unit. Losing an inter-unit activity was your fault, not the fault of these other adults. If these "unsavory" adults are serving on this other unit, why would you want to do an activity with them? You need to concentrate on your Charter Organization's Pack. You need to make sure the leaders who are members of your Pack give the Cub Scouts in your Pack the best program they can. That is what your main goal should be.(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

While the brochure does state that it is for BSA, and GSUSA, it can easily be completed without utilizing any Scouting program materials at all. Somehow I doubt that the Friends of the Heinz Wildlife Refuge would refuse to sell patches to another youth group, or school group, that had completed the requirements.

They are no longer members of your unit. Your unit now has very little, if anything at all, to say about their membership in the BSA. Where has your Charter Organization been during all of this? Why didn't your CO, as the owner of your unit, and your COR, as a member of your Council and District Committee, speak to your SE (not the DE) about this long ago? If there are youth protection issues with these adults it is up to the SE to handle. If they are bad trainers, it is up to the District, and Council, Training Chairs to take them off of their training staff. The issue with falsifying paperwork for leader awards seems to have been caught by your District and handled. If other units are having problems with these adults, it is up to those units, and their Charter Organizations, to make a complaint to council - not you. I suggest your unit concentrate on providing a great BSA Scouting program to its Scouts, and let your Council deal with its own problems outside of your unit. If these people are causing trouble for, or harming, your boys in some way, it is up to your COR, and IH to talk to the SE, and decide what else, if anything, they want to do about it.

I am glad you finally got your sons out of that toxic Troop. Frankly, I am surprised it took you this long when there are other Troops in your area. Perhaps your sons can convince some of their friends to move with them. Good Luck

Why are you so hung up on the fact that the Bear leader does not like the Webelos leader? They are in separate dens, with separate programs. They should both be doing their own things, and providing their own dens a good BSA Cub program. That is their main job. If they manage to work/interact fine together during Pack-wide activities, then I do not see a problem. The Bear den leaders seem to be providing a good program for the Bear den. As do the Wolf den leaders for the Wolf den. How is the program in the Webelos dens? There are a lot of activities that the Webelos dens can do that the Wolf and Bear dens can not. You do not seem to be concerned that the Webelos den is not inviting the entire Pack along on their fun Webelos den activities. Or, is that the problem? Are the Webelos dens not doing any fun den activities of their own?

You are over reacting. Every activity does not have to be a Pack activity. It is great that the Wolf and Bear dens are having fun doing some activities together. Perhaps you can suggest some outings to the Webelos den leaders that the Webelos might enjoy. It also sounds like maybe the Pack needs to be working on putting together some Pack-wide activities. At your next Pack Leaders Meeting, get suggestions from everyone for Pack outings, recruit an Pack Activity Chair, and go for it. One good idea is to get a few of the Pack adults to take BALOO training. Then have them plan a Pack campout.

Ed, what would you do if you ordered something from a store, paid for it, but never received it. Then, when you complained to the store, they said, sorry, nothing we can do, we wash our hands of the matter, order taker Tom Thief took your money, but never put thru your order, if you want your money back take it up with Tom Thief, and if you want the product, that you have paid for, we will be happy to have Nellie Nogood take your new order, and more money. For me, it would not matter if the store took out a full page ad in the local paper with Tom Thief's picture, address, phone, and a full description of what he had done. I would tell everyone I saw that it was a lousy store and to never, ever, shop there. I had ordered a product - in good faith - from the store. I expected the store to make it right. They did not. That made it the store who had ripped me off, not just Tom Thief.

Don't let the Grinches get you down! Go right on doing combined activities with the Bears if that is what your two dens choose to do. I would, however, recommend that you have a talk with your CM (who is in charge of the program end of things), about what the CC said to you, and how it was said. Aside from being dead wrong information, it was inappropriate. The CM should really have a nice cuppa of something seasonal with the CC, and talk to him about getting trained.

I believe what John was trying to get at is that IF a customer comes forward, stating that they paid for popcorn that was never delivered, your Pack should be ready to deal with that. Personally, I would recommend telling them there was a problem with the popcorn order, and 1) you will see if their order can be filled by leftovers at the Council, and 2) if the order can not be filled, that your Pack will GLADLY refund their money. You should alert your DE, and Council Service Center, that if they get any calls like this from anyone in your Pack's area, they need to route them to your CC immediately. Make sure all leaders in the Pack are on the same page as to how any complaints like this should be handled. Just a note on the popcorn sale itself. Most councils do not demand payment up front from units at the time of Take-Order delivery. They usually deliver the Take-Order corn, give the Scouts a week or two to deliver it and get paid, then have a final date when all money for the sale is due to Council. If your Council requires payment for all popcorn at the time of delivery, or order, then you should never take an order from a family that does not include the payment for that order. No money, no order. They can order their popcorn online from Trails End themselves (and pay shipping).

Being a DE is basically a Marketing job. Some experience/education in that area would be helpful. Some experience with fund raising, and procuring grants would be helpful. Knowledge of Scouting is helpful, but should not be a deal breaker in any way. Lots of enthusiasm, and energy, and the ability to bring that to the people, and activities around them. Strong ability to multi-task. Willing, and able, to work long days and weekends. Organized, and able to follow thru on things in a timely fashion. Ability to work well, and communicate with, all levels of people, from a corporate CEO to an uninterested parent. Ability to interact with youth. Willing to learn new things, and to stay on top of changes in the organization. And to repeat, enthusiasm, energy, and the ability to communicate well. One last criteria, which is for them more than you - Willingness to relocate. DE's who do a great job are usually promoted to a different council. Moving every 5-8 years is not uncommon.

>>"I as an Adult Leader have met the requirements to earn this award for this year. But had no idea about it. My Committee isn't very good at looking into this stuff."

This is a horse of a different color. The Pack has had the popcorn all along and the issue has been that the family never picked it up? That's a far cry from stealing $400 from the Pack. You have the popcorn to sell, the Pack is not out any money at all yet. What did you use to order their popcorn? Did they give you their order sheet with everyone's name and order on it? Are any marked "paid"?

Why would you need an EIN to make purchases? An EIN is needed for Federal taxes. That has nothing to do with your purchasing craft supplies for your Pack. Are you confusing being tax-exempt for Federal Income Tax purposes, and not paying local sales tax on purchases? If so, these are two entirely separate things. Edited to add - At least in many states they are two separate things. Perhaps your state, instead of using a State Sales Tax Exemption number, or certificate, uses the Federal EIN? (This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

>>"There also needs to be a link from the scouting.org homepage."