ScoutNut

There is absolutely no requirement that the Eagle candidate use any Scouts at all in his project. He uses as many - people, as he needs to get the job done. What was the project? Were there any adults there as well?

I detest double elimination races. They are sad, boring, and no fun for most of the boys who are eliminated after 2, or 3 races. We went to a Partial Perfect "N" race, where every boy races in every lane, and races (practically) every other boy. Now, with a 4-lane track, every boy races, on average, 8 times. Lots more fun for the boys, and you don't have half of the Scouts leaving early in tears. Here is an online PPN race generator - http://www.stanpope.net/ppngen.html

Try contacting these area kayaking clubs - http://www.chicagokayak.com/ http://www.rivers-end.org/saukenuk/ http://www.caska.org/ http://www.prairiestatecanoeists.org/ http://www.rivers-end.org/mcc/

BSA recommends that the DVD, "It Happened To Me", be viewed yearly by Packs. However, a parent is always supposed to be present. This is never viewed by just the youth alone. The Power Pack Pals comic books are good, but again, do not do them without the parent present. The parents do not put off the Bobcat requirement because they don't want to, or can't, read the book. They put it off because child abuse is a scary thing to talk to your young child about. Take the time to talk to the parents. Tell them what the booklet is about, and why BSA feels it is important that they talk to their son about these things. Make them comfortable with it. Much of the information is also stuff that many parents have touched on with their children already. Don't talk to strangers, don't go anywhere with out telling someone first, don't give out any personal information on the internet, etc. This booklet just reinforces it. The actual Bobcat requirements are simply a few "what if" scenarios that they use to talk to their son about how to stay safe. Let the parents know that they are free to handle it however they feel most comfortable, and to put it in words that works best for their son. Be flexible. Don't hold a gun to the parents head. Explain that it is a tool to help them, help their son, and most will happily use it. For the few others, assume they have done their best, sign their son off, and move on.

Keep in mind that not all driveways are concrete. You can also have asphalt, which might get rather messy if it gets to hot. A crushed rock driveway would be the kind that would pose the least amount of problems.

Den ldr, will this Webelos have completed all of the requirements (except the time) for the Arrow of Light (AOL), including earning his Webelos rank award, by the end of March? If so, then I would say that for a boy with two disinterested parents, to complete all of that, on his own, in 6 months, is extremely hard, and a great achievement. You said that you don't think the scout realizes how great Boy Scouts will be, and you want him to attend Troop meetings with his den mates. Part of earning AOL is attending Troop meetings/activities. Make sure your Webelos den attends a number of these, with different Troops. That will help encourage all of them. If the Scout will have met all of the requirements by the end of March crossover ceremony, and he has picked a Troop he wants to join, then I would have a heart-to-heart talk with the Scoutmaster(SM). Since it is only a bit over 2 weeks until the 6 month mark, the boy could crossover with his den, attend meetings with the Troop, start to get acclimated, and to know the other Scouts. Meanwhile the SM could hold on to the boys application, and not submit it to council until the 19th of April. At that time the boy would officially start working on Boy Scout requirements.

It is not the den leader's place to talk about child abuse issues with other people's children, without permission (preferably written permission) from the parents. Cub Scout criteria for completion is Do Your Best. Tell your parents it is up to them do Do Their Best, and discuss the very sensitive subject of abuse with their son. Tell them to sign off in the book when they have finished. I have not had a problem when I give them a deadline, and tell them I want them to work on that specifically over the week, and bring the signed book to the next den meeting. In the rare instance when the parents don't sign off, I simply let the parents know that I trust that they will have the discussion with their son when they feel comfortable. I then sign off on the requirement for them.

For those Cub Packs in the area of Elk Grove Village, IL, I ran across a free Pinewood Derby Track on Craigslist. Here is the link - http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/zip/2152996267.html If you know of a Pack that is in need, or a new Pack, this is a GREAT deal! Good Luck!

As I posted, we have the scouts involved with transporting their own cars. The track is roped off so it is clear where the "no go" areas are. We have adults who walk the area of the track to keep crazed fans at bay. There is plenty of room around the track for the racers to walk from the Parking Lot to the Start, to the Finish, and back, without running into onlookers. We sometimes have to caution the racers. They tend to get excited at times, but as a rule are still pretty good. Parents are there and it is often their voices that can be heard first reining in their Scout. Do we have accidents? Sure, sometimes. They are kids, it happens. We fix it, and move on. Very seldom do we have any large, or blown up, problem. The kids love it, and it keeps them on their toes and actually involved in the race. However, I know that with extremely large Packs things might work better in a more adult controlled setting.

OK, now I'm getting dizzy. ROFL !!! (Rolling On Floor Laughing)

I know I need new peepers but, I am seeing double!

Let us not forget - WEBELO - WE'll BE LOyal vs WEBELOS - WE'll BE LOyal Scouts (This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

Example of Boy Scout Camping and how achievement flows from just doing things - Boys have to pack for a campout, and have the proper gear. By dressing, packing, getting your gear ready, and demonstrating the above to your Scoutmaster, a Scout has completed Tenderfoot requirement #1, and Camping Merit Badge requirement #5. Boys have to set up their own tents. No parents or maids available to do this. By camping overnight in a tent they have pitched, a Scout has completed Tenderfoot requirement #2, parts of Second Class requirements #3a, and #3b, part of First Class requirement #3, part of requirement #9a for the Camping Merit Badge. Everyone has to eat. You don't order out from the nearest pizza joint. Boys do their own planning of their menus, cooking, and cleaning up. By doing all of this a Scout can have completed Tenderfoot requirement #3, Second Class requirements #3d, #3e, #3f, and #3g, First Class requirements #4a, #4b, #4c, #4d, #4e, Camping Merit Badge requirements #6b, and #8a-d, Cooking Merit Badge requirements #3, and #4, Backpacking requirement #8c. As a fun thing to do on Saturday morning, how about doing a Pioneering or Camp Gadget (tying and lashing poles together to make stuff) competition between patrols to see which patrol can make the craziest thing that actually works? A Scout can have completed Tenderfoot requirement #4a-c, First Class requirements #7a-b, and #8a, part of Climbing Merit Badge requirement #7, various requirements for the Pioneering Merit Badge. (my son absolutely loved pioneering and knots, still does to this day and he will be 22 in a few weeks) That is just a sample. Even something as simple as the morning flag raising, and the evening flag lowering ceremony can be used for requirements. There are lots of requirements involving hiking, first aid, swimming, canoeing, climbing, fire building, finding your way, etc. None of these things are "labeled" as being done for advancement. They are being done because it is part of the actual camping process (setting up tent site, eating, cleaning, chopping wood, etc), or it is fun to do. No "school work" or boring classes involved. (This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

We don't have a lot of extra activities going on during Pinewood Derby. We have a snack area, and a play area for little siblings. That is about it. We do not race by dens. Everyone races together. We have a four lane track, and we usually average 8 races per Scout. The boys have to be there, listening, for when their car number is called, so they can "drive" from the Parking Lot to the Starting Gate. They then get to watch from the finish line, and then "drive" their car back to the Parking Lot. We also do not use computerized timers. We use Asst Scoutmasters, and Den Chiefs as Finish Line Judges, so the racers get to interact with the Judges too. The boys stay busy racing, cheering on their buddies, and eating!

For your information : The Language of Scouting on the BSA National Web site - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/LOS.aspx

Nowhere on that link (which is not new by the way) does it state that BSA recommends that the Webelos program be only 1 year long. LDS Boy Scout Troops take 11 year old boys, not 10 year olds (or even 10.5 year olds). If a Scout has met all of the Boy Scout joining requirements, then yes, he can join a Boy Scout Troop. However, if he is still in 4th grade, he must have been a Webelos Cub Scout for 6 months since turning 10 years old in order to earn the AOL. The requirements for earning AOL have not changed. Neither have the Boy Scout joining requirements. However, if someone at your council, or in specific units, are manipulating requirements, that is their call, but it is NOT a BSA National recommendation.

The correct requirement to have earned Arrow of Light as a 4th grader is - "Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge." So a 4th grader who is 10.5 years old can indeed earn his AOL and cross to a Boy Scout Troop. As for Webelos being only a 1 year program, there is a provision for a 1 year program in the Webelos Leader Guide. The LDS church has always run their Webelos program for only 1 year. All of their Scouts move to new levels based on their age. Boys become Webelos at 10 years old, and when they turn 11, they move into a Boy Scout program for 11 year olds.

While our registrar is the one who goes over the permits to verify training, etc, it is our Assistant Scout Executive who actually signs them and gives them the final approval.

Baden, I was not trying to contridict your post. In fact I did not even know you had posted until after I hit "enter". I did not say that it was standard practice that a CO's units would always have different numbers, or that it was even common. Just that it was possible, and does happen. There are units that change chartering organizations, but keep their original unit number when their old CO releases the number to them. I also did NOT say that a COR's loyalty was "first and foremost" to the council. I said he works for the Chartering Organization who selected him. His job is to work with ALL of the units "owned" by that Chartering Organization, and to help them ALL succeed in giving their members the best possible program. So yes, a COR is "loyal" to their units.

todorr - you stated : "We have done all the faith 8a, b, c requirements and two of e. Im not sure how to complete 8d (earn religious emblem of your faith)?" The requirements to complete #8 for the Webelos ran award state that items #8 a, b, and c, must all be completed, and that EITHER #8 d, OR #8 e, must be completed. The requirement to complete #8 e states that only 2 of the 6 items must be completed. From your post, your Webelos have finished all of the required parts, and have completed Webelos requirement #8-Faith. There is no need for them to earn the religious emblem of their faith. Of course, if any of them should wish to do so on their own, you can have their family contact their religious organization (church/pastor/etc) for information, and assistance.

A COR can be a Committee Member only if he/she is dual registered as such. If the COR is registered as a Committee Member of a specific unit then he/she can wear the insignia of that unit and office . However, a Charter Organization has only one COR for all of it's units. It is possible for a CO to have different unit numbers for it's different units, so a COR would have to pick which uniform, unit numbers, and shoulder tabs, to wear. A COR actually works for his Charter Organization and not the individual unit. The COR's responsibilities include helping all of the Charter Organization's units to succeed, and representing the Charter Organization at the District and Council level. If you wish to wear your COR position patch with your unit number that is your choice. BSA does not employ a squadron of Uniform Police whose job it is to catch and punish those not wearing their uniform, or insignia, correctly. If they did they would be a very busy group!(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

May I ask what your registered position in the Troop is? Are you an assistant Scoutmaster, Advancement Chair, Committee Chair, Committee Member, etc?

Most kids don't have the patience to simply sit, and do nothing for an entire weekend. Heck, I don't either! I want to be hiking, fishing, climbing, and just generally doing fun outdoor things. All of the advancements, requirements, yada, yada, all happen while you are "just camping". That's the point. They happen naturally as a part of being outdoors and doing fun things. The boys, and adults, have plenty of time to sit around a campfire talking about different things, or to quietly watch the squirrels chase each other, or the skunk family wander thru camp. A good camping trip, at any level, is not school, or work, or "cramming" in nonstop advancement. It is fun.

Good Grief! Everything is not all about you Hawkrod! The comments were not meant to be serious. The comments were not aimed at you. Sheesh! I think I need to ask BSA for a raise!

Just like a Pack, and Troop have a unit committee that makes sure things are running well, so does your District, and your Council. And just like your unit committees have committee members who work together on the committee to get things done, so do the District, and Council committees. A COR is one of those District, and Council, committee members. They have "voting rights" on those committees. They have a say in how your District and Council is run. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but from your posts you have been with the BSA for 7+ years, thru your Scouts Cub years, are now trying to motivate your teen to finish his Eagle, you volunteer with your Troop, know your District Executive (DE), have taken all the training including Wood Badge, and you still do not know about PLCs, Charter Organizations, CORs, and how your District and Council are put together?