ScoutNut

>>"He's been in scouting a long time and has a lot of "rabbis" high up in the district and council, so bringing in a commissioner might be a bad idea."

So, I'll ask again, when you "listened in a bit" and realized that these two moms were talking, and laughing, about someone behind their back, why is it that you did not simply walk over to them and state - CLEARLY - Excuse me, but talking about someone like this is rude, and un-Scoutlike. I would not do that to you. Please stop. They are doing this because you are not calling them on it IMMEDIATELY, and they are getting away with it. For this, and the other issues your Pack seems to be having, I suggest you call your council and find out who your District Commissioner is. Give him/her a call and ask for some Unit Commissioner support for a Pack in trouble. You should even ask if they have someone who speaks Polish. Unit Commissioners are there to give impartial assistance to your Pack. They can give advice, and act as an intermediary between the den leader and the Polish families, and between the CM and the den leader.

How will not allowing a Scout access to his advancement records "protect the interests of the troop, chartered organization and volunteers"? Why would the police, or a court, have any need for a Scouts advancement records?

So, when these two moms are, obviously, talking about someone behind their back, why is it that you do not simply walk over to them and state - CLEARLY - Excuse me, but talking about someone like this is rude, and un-Scoutlike. I would not do that to you. Please stop. There is plenty of fault to go around here. The den leader should stop asking others to do what he does not want to do, and nip the bad behavior in the bud AT the meetings, and then talk to the two families.

Including - "BoR was held on XX/XX/XX. Scout was expelled from troop. Council was present and informed us they would consider revoking Scout's membership in BSA." - as a comment in TroopMaster is not hearsay. It is a factual statement. Adding that comment to Troopmaster is the only thing that I would recommend doing. Deciding what happens with this Scout is no longer your call. Your Troop kicked him out. Your council has decided that he is not to be permanently banned, and can remain a Scout. Doing anything besides including a note in his TroopMaster file (which should have been done for Troop information purposes anyway) is over and beyond your business. I would also suggest mailing (snail, or e) the file directly to the new SM.

>>"Does anyone know if the Scouts have any guidance on whether or not adult partners of Tiger Cubs should be allowed or discouraged from speaking foreign languages with each other at den meetings?">"I believe that it is rude to speak foreign languages when you are sharing a space with other people who don't speak the same, like at a table during a den meeting. While there are exceptions, parents should try to speak english. If they want to speak something else they should excuse themselves first and maybe step away if need be. Of course, they can speak anything they want when we are just standing around and not trying to work together.">"The funny part about all of this is the two Polish moms also complain that the other moms make them feel unwelcome, especially my wife and the den leader. The Poles keep to each other and make no effort to try to join in, so I don't know what they expect."

I agree that a one month planning lead time is rather short notice, even for a camp-in. You still need to advertise the date, and get sign-ups from families so you know how many to plan for. We do a roses/thorns at the Pack Leaders Meeting following our Pack campout, but do not set the date, or place, then for the next year. However, we do try to nail down dates as soon as we can, to get as much lead time as possible. We use County, and State Park, Youth Group Camp sites, and they fill up fast. We learned early on if we left it to only a month or two in advance we would not get the place, and/or date, we wanted. Scoutmom, use your BALOO trained person to help you with the planning of your camp-in. Even though it is inside, they will know what is needed, and have plenty of program ideas as well.

>>"So my question is if training is so important that I must be mandated to do it, why is it not important to Council or District?"

No contradiction, and no change. The position description of LNT Trainer is the same now, as it was a year ago, and as it was on 01/01/2010, when your son's Troop gave him a POR he was not qualified for. However, your son had his time in the POR of LNT Trainer approved by his SM (or someone in his Troop) as a requirement for his rank of Star. That is now a done deal, and can not be changed, or rescinded. It is also never reported to your council in any form. The only Positions of Responsibility (PORs) that are reported to your council are those used for the rank of Eagle. That would be ONLY those served AFTER the Board of Review date for the rank of Life.

Most Packs that I know have den leaders that stay with the dens from year to year. These generally have their son as one of the Scouts in their den. I have also seen (and been one) leaders who stay active at the Cub level when their son moves on to Boy Scouts. Often when these Scouters are den leaders, they are permanent at the Tiger den level.

No, BSA is not Babysitters of America. Then again, if all you are doing with the boys is "babysitting" them, then you are not providing them the Cub Scout program. The BSA National Web site has the following to say about den meetings - >>"Tiger Cubs attend their den meetings with their adult partners, but Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts attend den meetings on their own.">"Cub Scout den meetings are intended to be an activity for the individual boys. They are not a family activity, and the presence of parents can be a distraction. However, parental involvement is not forbidden and all meetings should be open to your participation. If you would like to be present at a den meeting, ask the den leader in advance so that the leader can plan a way for you to observe or participate in an unobtrusive manner."

Have one of your BALOO trained folks dig out the stuff they received at their BALOO training. There are games, songs, planning aids such as schedules, recipes, and lots more in there.

I am still unclear on why the DC is involved in the day-to-day operation of your unit. Why does the DC have anything to say about your Pack's storage unit? Why would the DC know anything about what is, or is not, inside your storage unit? Why would he care? Is he a member of your Pack, along with being DC? As for the things he has told you - Yes, a BSA unit CAN accept gifts. They can NOT SOLICIT gifts, but they can directly accept donations. However, they can do so only as long as the donor is either not going to claim it as a tax deduction, or if the Charter Organization is a 501©(3) non-profit, and the donation is going thru the CO (a good relationship with your CO is needed for this). BSA units are not stand alone 501©(3) non-profit entities. They are owned by, and take their tax status from, their Charter Organization. If a donor claims a donation to your Pack as a donation to BSA, it is possible that the donor will then have a problem with the IRS, especially if your Charter Organization is a for-profit organization. There is no requirement that your council be informed of donations to the Pack. If your DC is instructing Pack leaders on how to steal equipment from the Pack that is a very bad thing. Have you contacted the Council Commissioner about your issues with the DC? I would do so no matter what the outcome of Sunday's meeting is. There is not a whole lot you can do about the Sunday meeting. Don't automatically assume you will be getting the boot. Come prepared with backup to questions/issues you have. If they do ask you to resign, do so graciously. Then find a new Pack that works well, and leave these folks to do their own thing.

(If this seems out of place it is because I removed the original post at the request of the original poster - packsaddle) Not sure why your District Commissioner is picking, and registering, leaders for your Pack. That is not his responsibility. However, yes, the Charter Organization Representative (COR), as the "head" of the Charter Organization's Scouting Division, is "in charge", and can tell any volunteer that their services are no longer needed. The COR, CC, and CM, should all be working together. Why were you asking for a list of who had paid for Blue and Gold, if Blue and Gold is over and done with? Was there a problem with the finances that was not addressed at the time? Did you discuss the need to inventory the storage facility at a Pack Leaders Meeting? Do you have a Committee Member in charge of Pack equipment? Since you really have no idea what it is for, I recommend attending the meeting this Sunday with a positive attitude. BTW - If your District Commissioner is indeed chewing tobacco at one of your Pack's meetings/activities, you are well within your rights to remind him that using tobacco products is not allowed at the meeting/activity, and to direct him to an area where it is allowed. However - Stating "he clearly has no regard for the principles of scouting" is a huge overreaction. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Actually, I was wondering why the church let itself be convinced to keep it's charter when it was down to 1 Cub. If the pastor was/is not interested in Scouting, and not interested in utilizing it for the boys in the school, and parish, why did he agree to charter the Pack? Someone had to talk him into it. Someone had to come up with some pretty strong reasons, that the pastor agreed with. You need to work on those reasons, and get the pastor to actively promote the Pack he is chartering, as another parish youth organization. If you can't get that to happen, the Pack will always be simply an outside group that he allows to meet on church grounds.

SP - Is your CO the church itself, or one of the church's parish organizations? How/why is the church chartering a Cub Scout Pack that is not servicing the members of the parish?

If you can afford to do it right away, check out the 20% off sale at REI Outlet - http://www.rei.com/outlet The 20% off sale ends tomorrow. Check out the Alps Meramac 6 for $149.93 - 20% = $119.95

The situation is going to get even more difficult if your den leader does not want a spa getaway (I really don't know of any men that would). Or feels uncomfortable with a gift that expensive (I know I sure would be). What on earth were they thinking? Is this a normal type of gift in your Pack?

The BSA states in numerous sources (04-113 above, COR training, new unit organization, etc) that - "The organization head appoints a Chartered Organization Representative, who serves as head of the organizations' scouting program" An involved Charter Organization, and an involved IH, means an involved COR. The COR is appointed by the IH. As the "head" of the CO's Scouting program, selecting a Committee Chair is one of the COR's responsibilities. "Your first responsibility, then, is to get the best possible person to chair each unit committee." As has been mentioned, if the IH does not trust the COR choices, or how the COR is dealing with the CO's unit, the IH should meet with the COR to fix the situation, or replace the COR with someone who will do a better job of representing the CO. I also do not really understand what the underlying problem here is. Are you the IH? Do you feel that you should be doing the hiring and firing yourself, and are upset that the COR took on that job? Did you disagree with the COR's decision on that volunteer, and want him/her in the CC position? Have you talked to your COR? Are you the prospective CC who was turned down by the COR? Do you feel that you were wrongfully turned down for the position? Do you feel that it was not the COR's place to turn you down? Do you feel that the IH would have accepted your application as CC? Have you talked to the IH? Are you the COR? Do you feel that the IH is trying to put you in the middle? Do you feel that the IH is trying to foist off his responsibilities on you? Have you talked to your IH?

Welcome, and happy Scouting!

Coleman makes fairly decent family tents that can be quite reasonable when on sale. If possible look for "bathtub" floors, and full, to the ground, rainflys. Before you take the tent out camping, re-seal all inside seams with a liquid seam sealer. Make sure the tent is set up correctly.

>>"I usually find this kind of question on this board kind of naive."

There are 3-4 boys in the den now, which means that he is "socializing" with only 2-3 boys. Boys who make fun of him. In a den that hardly ever meets. Talk to the SM of the Troop and find out what Pack they generally get most of their Webelos from. Have your friend, and her son, join that Pack NOW. YES, it IS worth it to do it now. The boy will get a much better Webelos experience. He might be re-doing some of his Webelos Activity Badges, but so what. The mom knew that was going to happen when she took her son to every Webelos camp all summer long. The boy can have the time to make friends at the new Pack that he will be going to the Troop with. This will help ease the transition. He can also use the time in the Pack to mature a bit, get some camping trips in with the boys he will cross with, learn about Boy Scouting with his fellow Webelos, and in general have fun. If the boy goes to "play" with the Troop instead of working with his fellow Cub Scouts in a Webelos den, he will not get the socialization he needs. He does NOT need to pretend to be a Boy Scout. He DOES need to get to know his fellow Webelos, and have fun in his last year as a Cub Scout. Don't take that away from him.

Each requirement of an elective counts separately. Your Wolf Cubs can do 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or even all 6 if they feel like, of the Indian Lore requirements, and they should get credit for each one that they complete. If they complete all 6 parts, they will have completed 6 of the 10 electives needed to receive an arrowpoint.

If you are going to take over as Cubmaster, you will need to find leaders for your den. You have been with this den for two years now. You must know the families at least somewhat. Which adults seem to like to work with the boys? Which adults seem to "get" Scouting? Pick the two who you feel would do the best job of being den leader, then ask each of them, face-to-face, if they will take on the job. Make sure they know that the Pack will be behind them, and that they can come to you for help at any time. Make sure they know where to go for resources. Do what you can to convince them, and make them comfortable about taking on the job. If they both accept, then you have your new den leaders! If only one (or none) accepts, then go to your next best choice(s), and do the face-to-face request again. Keep this up until you have two den leaders for your den. If you are NOT going to take on the job of Cubmaster, then have the current Cubmaster do this same activity, but with the entire Pack. Group, blanket requests, and email threats, will NOT get you any volunteers. They are way to easy to ignore. Pick the best choice for the job, and talk to them face-to-face. Keep going down the list of best possible choices for the job until one of them says yes. It is a lot harder to say no to someones face, than it is to simply ignore an email. Whatever happens, you, and the rest of the leaders in the Pack MUST get registered in your positions, and you MUST get trained. BTW - Where is your Charter Organization in all of this? Your Pack belongs to them. Do they care that they will loose the charter, and the Pack, if no CM can be found?