ScoutNut

A Webelos program that dispenses with the earning of awards, and just does games, camping, hiking, and other fun stuff, is fine if that is what the boys, not the leaders, want. However, the Scouts should be made aware that they will have to wait until they turn 11, or reach the end of 5th grade before they will be able to join a Boy Scout Troop. If your Bear den leader can't communicate with his den parents, and can't ask for help when needed, that is not the fault of the program. Recruiting den leaders and assistant den leaders is the job of the Committee Chair, the Committee, and the Cubmaster working together. If you (CM) felt the Bear den leader needed an assistant, and the Bear leader was not doing anything toward that end, you should have talked to the Committee Chair and recruited someone. As for not "scaring up a panel of Adult Activity Counselors", while it might take just a bit of effort, it is not all that difficult. Pass out a BSA Parent Talent Survey to parents of the Webelos (and even the rest of the Pack) to find professions/hobbies that are useful. Attend a Roundtable and get resources from other Webelos leaders. If a Webelos den leader can't find anyone else, most councils have a Merit Badge Counselor list that they can get. They can also ask a nearby Troop (perhaps the one their Webelos will most likely be going into) for the contact info of the MB Counselors they use, or for a Den Chief. It is not the fault of the Webelos program if a den leader does not want to put in any effort to finding help, and then complains about not having any.

The BSA Webelos program is not all that complicated, nor should it involve one person standing in front of the room "teaching". The Webelos Activity badges are a stepping stone to Boy Scout Merit Badges. As such, if you ignore requirements, and just hand out badges that have not actually been completed, what are you leading the Scouts to expect when they get to Boy Scouts? Is it any wonder then when they expect the same treatment on Merit Badges? As with Merit Badges, the Webelos den leader should use a variety of adult Activity Badge Counselors to work with the boys. These counselors can be parents of the boys in the den, teachers, EMTs, even registered Boy Scout Merit Badge Counselors. Many local, state, and federal parks, and museums, have Webelos badge workshops. Many councils will hold Webelos badge camping weekends. There is no reason a Webelos den leader should turn the den into an extension of the school day, or feel they must do it all themselves.

This thread is over 3 years old. The information on the Boy Scout Trail site is outdated, and incorrect. As of August 2010, BSA has a new National Outdoor award program that is ONLY for Boy Scouts and Varsity Scouts. The link 5year provided, at the National BSA site, - http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx is the correct one. gpronger - As only 5 nights of resident camping are allowed, I would count either 5 nights as counselor, or CIT, at summer camp, or 5 nights as a camper with the Troop at summer camp, not both, and not for the entire summer. (This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

>>"I do plan on working with the Minneapolis Parks Dept (I have political connections with the Park Board)">"The local "Park Service" is a monolithic public entity, I have no idea whom to contact and where about helping with trail maintenance/signage."

This is BSA's "New Unit Retention Guide" for "starting and sustaining high-preforming quality units" - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/522-025_WB.pdf They recommend having a COR, CC, unit leader, and unit committee (can be members from the "organizing" committee which is appointed by the CO at the get go), in place before recruiting youth or additional leaders. They also recommend having a dedicated, experienced, "New Unit" Commissioner, who is responsible for only one unit at a time, is involved from the very beginning, with the sales call on the prospective charter organization, and works with the new unit for 2-3 years before handing the unit off to a "regular" UC. The 10 minimum youth is because 2 full dens, or patrols, work better, and are more sustainable. For Packs, this means BSA does not recommend scattering the boys over multiple age/grades/dens, of only 1, or 2, boys per den. They want 5 boys in the same level, per den, for 2 dens. The 5 adult leaders come from the parents, and are over and above the registration of the unit "Key 3" and committee. This is a great idea, and, if it can be followed, has the potential to create much more stable units. The problem of course is following this procedure. This requires more involvement, dedication, and commitment, from the charter organizations. This requires more involvement, dedication, and commitment, from the parents. This requires more volunteers at the Commissioner level. This might be the hardest to pull off as most districts have a hard time finding 1 UC for every 3-4 units, much less having enough volunteers available for there to be UC's to work 1-1 with new units. I don't think it is very likely that this whole process will be consistently followed. DE's are still paid in part based on their membership, and unit numbers so they have little incentive to put together 1 solid unit when they can get 2 iffy ones instead. The more the better. Widespread, rural areas will have a hard time meeting the numbers necessary for a new unit. This is why the required number of den leaders was reduced from 1 per den, to 1 in total, a number of years back. Webelos dens are generally lucky to have 5 boys. Disgruntled Webelos leaders, wanting to form their own Troop, will have a hard time meeting the larger youth requirement.

These thistles are located on State Highway property. Without proper permission you could be considered to be trespassing. There is also the problem that it is on a hillside. Do you want your Cubs rolling down it? What about the disturbance your Cubs will do to the other plants put there to prevent erosion of the hillside? There are plenty of ways to volunteer for Minneapolis Parks. Big cities are not nearly as "monolithic" as you think. Check out some of the information from your Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board - http://www.minneapolisparks.org/default.asp?PageID=76 There is a "volunteer" link - http://www.minneapolisparks.org/default.asp?PageID=78 There is a "contact us" link where you can find phone, and email info for the Parks and Recreation Board, and various parks, programs, and departments - http://www.minneapolisparks.org/default.asp?PageID=85 Contact someone and see what kind of service can be arranged for your Cubs to do.

As others have said, it can be either way, and there are good reasons for both. Just a note, holding him back in Cubs will not affect his transfer to Boy Scouts. What to do depends on the boy himself. Your best bet is to meet with the parents and the Scout, and talk about their options, and their reasons for wanting their son to repeat the last year of Cubs. Then come to an agreement on what is best for the boy.

Welcome Noname! What is your Charter Organization? Who is the Charter Organization Representative? What is your position with the Pack? How long have you been a member? How old is this Pack? The Pack was doing pretty good, prior to B&G where you lost two thirds of your Scouts, with about 33 Scouts. What happened? Why did so many leave? You need to find out why your Pack fell apart before you can put it back together again. Those problems have to be corrected. The Charter Organization Representative(COR), Committee Chair(CC), Cubmaster(CM), and the Pack's Unit Commissioner(UC), need to get together to decide how best to help the Pack. HINT: Passing around sign-up sheets, and doing mass cattle calls for help rarely works. The folks who would be a best fit for a specific position need to be identified, and approached individually. Know the job's parameters and responsibilities, and make sure to have plenty of help for them available.

I guess it depends on how long ago you took your basic Scoutmaster training, and who is asking you to repeat it. Per BSA the basic training does not expire - ever. However you are expected to keep up to date. If it is your charter organization that is asking you to renew your basic training, they are within their rights to request you to do so. Especially if your training was quite a while ago. I would ask the person that is asking you to retake basic training their reasons behind the request. FYI - From the BSA National Training Updates for Spring 2011 - http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx "Training Recertification Keeping Scouts safe and keeping Scouting leaders up to date with current information and methods means some of the BSA's training courses need to be retaken every couple of years. We all know about Youth Protection training and National Camping School, but there are some othersincluding some that have recently been added to the list. Below is a list of these courses and how often they should be retaken to be valid: Youth Protectionevery two years National Camping Schoolgood for five camping seasons Safe Swim Defenseevery two years Paddle Craft Safetyevery three years Aquatics Supervision/Swimming and Water Rescueevery three years BSA Lifeguardevery three years Visitation trainingevery two years Lead Climbing Instructorevery five years Climbing Instructorevery two years COPE/Climbing Inspectorevery two years Safety Afloatevery two years Chain Saw Safetyevery two years Trainers EDGEevery three years Hazardous Weatherevery two years Physical Wellnessevery two years Climb On Safelyevery two years Trek Safelyevery two years As other courses are introduced, or as our committees determine that courses have an expiration date, we will post them hereso keep watching! By the way, the Volunteer Training Committee encourages you to take the most current training courses for your Scouting position even if there is no expiration, or even if you are considered trained as a result of taking an older course. It is always better for our Scouts when their leaders stay up to date!

Not saying that what they are doing is somehow wrong at all. If it is helping these youth then more power to them. Just saying that there should be no worries about BSA suddenly changing it's national membership requirements for Cub Scouts based on this group.

The article states that the Feldmans, who started this unit, purchased the uniforms for the youth. From the pictures they seem to have simply purchased whatever fit, or was in stock/on sale at the time. No matter what the council Field Director states, there is no way for the BSA computer system to register a 13 year old, seventh grade girl, as a member of a BSA Cub Scout Pack. This Pack is not on the "beascout" web site as a chartered Cub Scout Pack. The only way that this group could work would be if it was registered under Learning For Life, and possibly also ScoutReach. Once they got the girls and boys registered the Feldmans seem to have combined various aspects of different BSA programs.

What Ann, and Snow said. The criteria in Cub Scouts is "Do Your Best". From the BSA National Web site - "To do my best Giving your best effort is right and honest. Always remember that your best is not the same as someone else's best. Doing the best you can is more important than trying to be better than someone else." However that does not mean that you get a pass if you do nothing at all. Not even trying to do something is no one's "best". One of the purposes of Cub Scouting is Character Development. How are you developing good character in a boy when you give him awards that he did not earn? How is that right, or honest? I have had Scouts who did not earn their rank award. I have never had a boy drop out of Cub Scouts because he failed to earn it.

Seems a bit iffy to me. The pictures show a boy with a Bear Cub Scout necker in a tan shirt. The story mentions 13 year olds in a Cub Scout Pack. Not possible. The 13 year old boys and girls can be in a Venturing Crew, but not registered as Cub Scouts. It sounds more like this is some sort of Learning For Life group doing their own thing program-wise. Also, the article stated that there is no Scouting in Africa, however that is not true. There are Sea Scout, Boy Scout, and Girl Guide organizations throughout Africa.

The BSA Insignia Guide does not state that Webelos Activity badges can only be put on specific color ribbons. It simply states the Activity badges are to be worn on the front panel of the Webelos cap, or on the Webelos colors

>>"He was mainly upset that it appeared they were doing MB work in a meeting"

Family Promise?

Encourage him to visit as many Troops as possible, and ask as many questions there as possible. Every Troop is different. However, you might also remind him that very few Troops follow the "ideal", or published, meeting outline. He should not go into this expecting to find a Troop that meets, or exceeds, everything he has read about on the 'net. He should go with an open mind, and look at the whole Troop, and it's entire program.

Have you seen the BSA Cub Scout Parent Information Guide? http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/520-259.pdf

PTA's are generally very hands-off Charter Organizations(CO), and the National PTA organization has also actively discouraged it's member units from becoming a CO for the BSA. The unfortunate upshot is that it is very unlikely your Pack will get any help from it's CO. Scouting, whether at the den, or Pack level, is not a one man show. With 45 Scouts in your Pack, there are approximately from 45-80 adults associated with those Scouts. That is quite a lot of potential volunteers. At your Pack's next Pack Leader/Committee meeting you should discuss which adults among all of the families in the Pack would do a good job as Committee Chair, and as Cubmaster. Then each candidate needs to be asked individually until the volunteers the Pack needs are recruited.

How many Scouts are in your Pack? What is your Charter Organization?

You can not be REGISTERED as both a CM, and a DL. You register in your main position (usually the one the unit needs you registered in for recharter), and then do whatever other jobs you feel you can manage, and the Pack Committee, and the Charter Organization, agree to letting you do. Has your Committee Chair(CC), or Charter Organization Representative(COR), actually asked you to take on the position of Cubmaster(CM)? Or, are you just assuming that you will become CM because no one else has offered? It is up to the CC, and the Charter Organization, by way of the COR, to find a new CM, not your council. They have all of the families in the entire Pack, and even adults associated with the Charter Org but without any Scouts in the Pack, to choose from. Your CC, and COR, should be finding, and convincing, the best possible candidate, not simply the warmest default body. If you do not want to be CM, do not do it. A CM who does not really want the job is less likely to do a good job. As for finding a new leader for your den, don't discount Girl Scout leaders. Just because they are committed to GSUSA, does not mean they have no time for BSA. Actually it could mean just the opposite. They are already committed to Scouting, and willing to volunteer their time. It is often difficult to tell your son that you only have time to volunteer for one child, and he is not it. Ask them - face to face, and offer to help, and coach, them in any way they need. Actually, one of the Girl Scout leaders might make a great CM. Less extra meetings than would be required for a den leader.

>>"but the kids are way behinde in advancment."

Yep, I understand doing a lot with limited time. I was a Cub Scout den leader, Girl Scout Troop leader, Popcorn Kernal, Cookie Chair, Pack Advancement Chair, PTO volunteer and board member, and more, all at the same time, and while working full time. There are not actually all that many rules. BSA training gives you a good overview. The Guide to Safe Scouting, and your Tiger/Wolf/Bear/Webelos Handbooks, pretty much covers the basics for Cubs. If you want to learn more, there is the Cub Scout Leader Book which goes into more detail. You do not have to memorize everything, just know where to look, and don't be afraid to ask questions. Not letting Cubs help cook is not a BSA rule. It is simply something that your Pack does. Probably to make it easier on the adults. Especially if yours is a large Pack. I suggest bringing up the question at the Pack Leaders/Committee meeting where the next Pack campout is starting to be planned. New ideas should always be welcomed.

Cooking, as with just about everything in Scouts, is progressive. Tigers help to make a snack. Wolf Cubs help cook a few meals. Bear Cubs have the opportunity to do a bit more hands-on cooking with adult help. Webelos get more into outdoor, camp cooking. Boy Scouts plan, purchase, prepare, and clean-up all meals themselves. As a Pack leader, you should be attending the monthly Pack Leaders/Committee meetings. When the subject of the next Pack campout comes up, ask the BALOO trained person in charge of the campout what the thinking is behind not letting Scouts help with the meals at all. See if you can convince them to get the boys more involved at some level. Better yet, take BALOO training from your council/district, get on your Pack's camping committee, and help in the planning of the Pack campouts.

As others have said the biggest problem I would have with a patch is that the training expires. What are the odds that the patch will then be taken off the uniform? Keeping the certification card in the wallet (no need to wear it around your neck) works fine. You can also acknowledge them all at your next Pack meeting.