ScoutNut

>>"Guys, the Adult is not looking for this award, the OP is looking to suprise him with the award. And if I am not mistaken the OP is a youth member of the Troop.">afscout 06/20/10 - "Then high school, band, student council, sports, girlfriends happened and I barely finished my service project and merit badges by the time I was 18. Unfortunately, I didn't know I had to get my Eagle paperwork in by my 18th B-day also."

NO - There is nothing in writing by the BSA that states a CC can not override a committee vote. >>"If the same 30 boys due all the work but everyone uses the equipment is that fair?"

Getting Pack, and Troop members to act as Day Camp staff is a good idea. We get much of our Day Camp staff by asking at Roundtables. However, that does nothing to help Eagle82 with his problem of finding a new Day Camp Program Director. The Program Director must be National Camp School trained, and must be an adult, not a youth.

Along with reading the Den Chief Handbook to learn about the position, I recommend taking the online Den Chief Training - http://scouting.org/Training/Youth/DenChefTraining.aspx Any Scouts who want to serve in the position of Den Chief should take this training. Most councils also hold an in-person Den Chief training that is good for prospective Den Chiefs to take. It is a good idea for the Cub Scout den leader to take the Den Chief training also. That way everyone is on the same page as to what a Den Chief is, and how to use one.

>>"it creates an uneven advancement situation for the scouts who are calling upon an adult stranger with an unfamiliar den.">"my statement on equality in advancement had nothing to do with rate of advancement, that's clearly up to the scout. It was in reference to adequately fulfilling the req, that are interpreted the same for all in the troop"

If the equipment is falling apart, and is in need of repair/replacement, then while I can fully understand why the CC is against an additional out-of-pocket fee, I am still confused as to why he is against an extra fundraiser to pay for this instead. Most of the Troops in my area generally hold 2 fundraisers per year. One, popcorn, is used almost exclusively for the Scouts only, with profit going into individual Scout accounts. This is used by the Scouts to pay for Troop dues, camping fees, event fees, etc. The second fundraiser is usually a dinner, or breakfast type of thing. Many Troops run a Pancake Breakfast in the Spring. This fundraiser goes for Troop expenses such as equipment, awards, etc. For a big budget item (like a unit trailer) a separate (third) fundraiser is usually held. Repair vs replace would depend on what kind of shape a tent is in. A good quality tent will hold up way past 125 days of camping. Tent poles are easily replaced. Patching can also be done at home fairly easily. You can get spray on waterproofing to re-waterproof a fly. Replacing zippers, or floors, would have to be someone professional. Finding one should certainly not be a full time job. Contact any high end sporting goods store (REI is a good one) and ask them.

So, BSA should expand the Lion program to include pre-schoolers and toddlers?

>>"What it was is the comm voted on a 25.00 per year gear fee to help pay for tents and such. Later that week the CC advised me he is not happy with the vote and will not honor it. He stated that due to the economy, some families can not afford it. We offered to have a fund raiser so the boys can earn this but still, no Luck."

If your Troop needs new tents, where does the CC plan to get the money for them? Personally, I prefer a money-earning activity over a "gear fee".

So I take it this is not just a problem with the SM, it involves the rest of the Troop leadership also, including the Committee? Attend the next Committee meeting (or parents meeting, whatever you call it) and bring ALL of your concerns to light. Ask them all how cheating on advancements is obeying the Scout Law. With all/most of the Troop's leadership agreeing with what is going on, this is a fight you will not easily win. Be prepared to talk to your son seriously about finding a Troop that follows the BSA program.

As COR that puts the ball squarely in your court. You are a member of the District, and Council Committees. Bring this up to them. Make a difference. At least try. Or would you rather just complain to us, here, than to actually do something to change this practice?

>>"Your stand on this situation leads me to believe that you feel that it is ok for others to exploit a unit for their own gains. Am I correct?"

So - are you planning on telling your SE that your DD/DE lied? That your unit did not participate in/earn the Quality Award?

If the object is to run around and get wet with something that does not resemble a gun in any way, use water squirters that look like fish and animals. Then you are simulating being spit, or vomited, on and not killed. Of course the volume of water is small, but I think crafty scouts can incorporate "drinking from a watering hole" into the game. You can order in bulk from novelty stores. Cubs love water balloons. They are a great way for everyone to get wet. Two lines of boys tossing a water filled balloon back and forth does not even faintly resembles a gun fight.

No, the Committee, and who ever gets stuck as CC, should do their jobs, and make it clear to the SM, and ASM what their jobs are (or are not). I suggest that you, as the most recent CC, talk to the COR about how the Charter Org's Troop is being affected by adults who can't play nice together. Perhaps suggest the COR steps up as interim CC, until a new one can be found.

Yeah, I can't understand why your COR has not been involved in this from the get-go. Is it that your Chartering Organization, and it's Representative, take a very hands off position? Neither ASM's, or Treasurers, have the ability to set "term limits" on any BSA unit volunteer. Only the owner of that unit - your Charter Organization - can do that. A Treasurer does not have the ability to declare himself "acting" anything, or to decide who is, or is not asked to be Committee Chair(CC). Only the owner of that unit - your Charter Organization - can do that. In order to be the registered Committee Chair for your Troop, you MUST be approved, and your BSA Adult Application signed, by your Charter Organization, in the person of either the Charter Organization Representative(COR), or the Institutional Head (IH) of the Charter Organization. Contact your COR. Make sure the Charter Organization really wants you as CC. If the COR is behind you, then have the COR let the SM, and the Committee, know you are officially the new CC. Get trained, and then DO YOUR JOB.

In order to get a usable answer we would need more information than what you have given in your opening post. What was the vote about? What was the Committee vote? Why did the CC not like that vote? What is your position in the Troop? How does this issue affect you?

It might very well be "ludicrous". However, it might not. It certainly could not hurt, and would be doing the right thing on your part, no matter if the SE was "in on it" or not.

Personally, I can not NOT float. I can not sit in a pool, or hot tub without something to weigh me down, or hold on to. If I relax at all, I automatically rise to the surface. I have been told it has something to do with fat ratios. This does not mean that I will float completely horizontally. My feet are naturally heavier and seem to sink somewhat. Not enough however to pull the rest of me down.

No, I actually did not. Your point is always to complain about your District/Council. Your point is always to vent. Venting is fine. However you need to make up your mind. Are you pissed that your District did something shady? Are you pissed you were not informed you got an award? Or are you pissed just to be pissed? If you truly want to make a stab at doing something to make this right, forcing your DE to send you your unit ribbon is not the way. Contact your SE and tell him that your unit did NOT earn the Quality Unit Award.

The Cubs that don't "get" an Indian ceremony have never seen one. Most likely they have never had any kind of "dress up" ceremony in their Pack. Their Pack might not do any kind of ceremonies at all, and be strictly a baggie and handshake bunch. On top of that, young boys just act silly. Given any incentive at all. Or none. This does not make the ceremony wrong, or to complicated. It is a ceremony, and while it is supposed to be serious, it is also supposed to be FUN! A bit of an explanation of the ceremony in advance, along with an admonition that a "Cub Scout gives goodwill", should be enough. If any Cub snickers just ignore him, or give him "The Look". Nothing more is needed.

If you don't feel that you genuinely earned Quality Unit, what does it matter to you that you were not told about it? Are you planning on displaying the ribbon, and the patch, even though you did not really earn them? How is that any different than what your DE did?

>>"Unfortunately, the organizers have gotten the idea that since so many troops have been doing it for so many years, they don't need to give instructions any more. To say we floundered a bit in figuring it out is something of an understatement. If I'd had an leader who'd been there before to team with for the morning, it would have gone so much more smoothly.">"the guidance I've gotten from AHG National is to check with the BSA District Executive to see if there are any BSA Troops that are looking for an AHG partner troop."

>>"Mostly because there aren't many AHG troops in my area, and we're a new enough troop that there's a lot we don't know yet. I'd like to find someone willing to shepherd us along a little."

>>"I'm about to call our BSA District Office and ask for help in finding a local BSA Troop that is interested in partnering with my AHG Troop.">"the families in my Troop already know where to find the Boy Scouts if they're interested in that. I doubt I'm going to be able to draw boys into Boy Scouts, at least not in large numbers."