ScoutNut

She is taking a training for adult leaders, as an adult leader (ASM). It does not matter what kind of other adult leaders will also be attending the training. Youth protection rules would only apply if she was attending as a Venturing youth.

Are you talking about the BSA "Cub Scout Leader Book"? There is a 2010 revision, but I do not think that there was a 2011 printing. From the note on the ScoutStuff web site (National Supply online shop), there were only minor revisions from the prior version. The book is smaller because BSA removed "substantial duplication". A separate book for Webelos leaders is not new. BSA has had a "Webelos Leader Guide" for many years now. I want to say at least 15.

Every unit handles this differently. Personally, I like having a unit account at the local council Scout Shop for awards. However, our Pack does not concur. So, leaders must pay out of their own pockets for awards (which can get VERY pricey) and then get reimbursed by the Pack Treasurer.

"Why do parents feel the need to attend?" Well Acco, there are some parents who might like to share important events with their child. There is no deep, underlying, horrible motive. Just the wish to be present, and view (and perhaps immortalize), an important event in their child's life. Do you have kids? If so, haven't you ever experienced this?

Tiger Cub Scouts must ALWAYS have their Adult Tiger Partner with them at all times. the "Resident Camping for Cub Scouting" - "The ideal method of camping for Cub Scouts involves parents and the pack by dens." "In most cases, the youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult." And "The camp ratio of adults to boys is set by the COUNCIL, but each boy is responsible to one designated adult." Some councils require 1:1, adult to youth ratio. Some councils require 1:5. Others use different ratios. My council requires a parent to register with their Cub Scout(s) for all of our Cub Summer camps.

While the at least "one adult of the same gender" as the youth on the outing, might be a good idea for your unit to follow, and it might be required by your Charter Organization, it is NOT required for either Cub, or Boy Scouts by BSA.

>>"We don't have a committee other than the CM, CC, and DL/ADLs. The CM and CC were frustrated at the overall lack of support so I'm just going with that.">"I want some continuity of leadership so that the pack thrives long after the current leadership is done."

What - exactly - is your Pack's "frustration" with your current CO? What is it that you feel you are not getting from your current CO?

Just a reminder, a Charter Organization (CO) OWNS it's BSA units. It is not "your" Pack, it is your CO's Pack. Ideally, a CO starts a BSA unit as a service to it's own youth. Have you considered working at repairing the relationship between the Pack and it's CO? That might be easier than finding a new one. Moose is correct. If your CO decides that they are not willing to give up the charter on their Pack they do not have to. The members of the Pack are free to join any other BSA Pack they wish, but your CO can hold on to the Pack's charter, number, money, and equipment, with the understanding they will either go on with whatever families are left in the current Pack, or start over at some later date. If you decide to look for a new CO, I suggest checking out churches, and organizations, that members of the Pack already belong to. The possibility of bad politics, conflicts of interest, and just plain bad operation of the unit is a possibility now, and in the future, no matter what organization you have as the Pack's CO. People are not perfect. I would contact your District Executive (DE), and your Unit Commissioner (UC), or District Commissioner (DC), to help the Pack thru this mess.

Collect updated paperwork from your Scouts at the beginning of every school year. If you do not want all of the paperwork at your house, simply scan it into your computer, and give the originals to your Committee Chair to keep on file with the Pack stuff. Then all you have to worry about is event registration/permission forms, and payments. For that set a drop dead date and let your families know that in order to attend, forms and payment must be in by then. Stick to your dates so they know you mean it.

Well perhaps you might ask your "people at National" why every every BSA publication states - "At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO, No. 34162) to properly understand the importance of program intent, Youth Protection guidelines, health and safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult participation." With no mention anywhere of IOLS being allowed to substitute for BALOO. You might also ask your "people at National" why they bother having national rules if they are not requiring local councils to follow them. Perhaps that might be one of the reasons that mandatory training is still such a mess.

>>"IOLS can be substuted for the pack level outdoor training. This comes from a perusaul of the "new" Tour Plan form."

I suggest doing a fancy celebration in November when they receive their award, and cross into the Boy Scout Troop. How can they participate in a "crossover" ceremony in February when they will have been Boy Scouts for 3 months already? They might also have earned some Boy Scout ranks by then. Would you have the Scouts take off all of their Boy Scout insignia and pretend to be Cubbies again? I don't think so. By the way, if you are now involved with the Troop, and not the Pack, you should have kept involved with the Webelos den leaders so that the crossover to your Troop of their interested Webelos could have been better coordinated. The Webelos den leaders work with the Scouts, and know how fast they are completing the AOL requirements. A Cubmaster might have only a faint clue, if any at all.

This person is the ASSISTANT WebeloS (please don't forget the Scouts!) leader. Where is the Webelos leader in all of this? The Webelos den leader is in charge of the den. The assistant is his - well, assistant. Yes, they should be working together, but the den leader should have the final say, or at least SOME say, in the den he is the main leader for. Also, where is the Cubmaster? It is part of his job to guide the den leaders and to make sure all of the Scouts receive a quality, BSA program. Did anyone speak to this person about these issues and try to work it out with him prior to sending out this email? >>"The requirements on page 63 are for the Arrow of Light- to be achieved AFTER a boy earns his Webelo badge."

Follow the BSA Cub Scout 2010 program - http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/%7E/link.aspx?_id=B57B1B0E05494AD4961D46FBF03A6805&_z=z It moves the work on Rank Awards from the family to the den. However, the family still has to get the Cubs to the den meetings. Also, keep in mind that although BSA National is pushing the "bling", in Cub Scouts, earning Rank Awards are not required to move to the next Cub level.

>>"I imagine if those calling were handed a bill for $500 or so by first responders, people would be somewhat choosier about the calls for help they made."

ScoutMythBuster, have you spoken to your Council Scout Executive about the threats from this DE? Or even to the DE's boss (Sr District Executive, District Director, Field Director, etc)? More to the point, has your Charter Organization Representative (who is a member of the district and council committees) spoken to any of the above folks about the threats?

The scheduling of Pack and den meetings is a very individual thing. There are as many reasons for having meetings on a specific day, and a specific time, as there are BSA units. Our Troop's weekly meetings are on Thursday evening from 7-9PM. This is strictly because of a long standing tradition. Pack meetings are usually (again tradition) on Wednesday evenings from 7-8:30, with cleanup til 9pm. We schedule special Pack meetings, like Pinewood Derby, which can run later into the evening, for Friday evening. That way the kids do not have to get up for school the next day. Pack meetings that include dinner (B&G, and Christmas) we schedule for Saturday evening, after the 5PM mass. This gives us time during the day to prepare. Our den meetings are run when/where the den leaders find it the most convenient for them, and their den families. This is generally in the evening, on most nights. One den particularly liked holding their den meetings on Wednesday evenings because they felt it was easier for their boys to remember the Pack meetings (held on one of those Wednesdays) I held my Tiger den meetings on Saturday mornings from 9-10AM. This got us in before the CCD traffic, and usually out in time to make the boys sports games. It also made it easy to move our meetings outside if we wanted. Another den liked Monday evenings because that was the day the den leader got home from work early. They met in the leaders home so holidays did not bother them. The leaders would sometimes take the holiday off work and do a den outing that day. Our regular meetings (Pack and den) are scheduled in May, and put on the Parish calendar for the upcoming school year of August-June. Sometimes dates have to be shuffled because of conflicts with other parish/school organizations, or activities.(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)

>>"first aid training recommends that a persons airway, breathing and pulse be checked first. If impaired, that may require treatment before calling 911."

>"My son started Citizen in the World at an early age, and I think he had a gifted MBC with the patience and time to work with him.. But, about 2 visits into it, he dropped it realizing for himself it was something that was too difficult.. That was one troop that did not put a rule to it.. "< And you had a problem with this - why? Your son was given the opportunity to do something HE wanted to do, when HE wanted to do it. He made a choice. When he decided to go with a partial, and complete the badge at a later time, he made another choice. Helping our SCOUTS learn to make good choices is what we are trying to do. Teaching them that they do not need to make their own choices, but can rely on their SMs to make the decisions for them, is NOT what we are trying to do What merit badges a Scout does, and when, is up to him. Weather he completes the merit badge or not is up to the merit badge counselor. A Scout who fails to successfully complete a merit badge is not scarred for life. He simply completes it at a later date. Or not. It is TOTALLY up to the Scout.

The Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs are COMPLETELY different. Boy Scout Patrols do not all have their own separate, and distinct, program. Neither are they all working on the same award/rank at the same time. As a Scouter who wears many hats, especially that of Unit Commissioner, I would think you would know that already.

Don't forget to include coverage of, and links to, the top Pack management sites (ScoutManage, PackMaster, ScoutTrack). Is there going to be a separate class on Pack finances? If not this should be included. The Pack and it's Charter Organization (reporting practices, donations, etc). Get copies of the BSA pamphlet "Selecting Cub Scout Leadership" to hand out.

For new Cub Scout leaders - Get trained. Fully know what the program is, and it's purpose, that you are providing the boys. Be FLEXIBLE, but follow that program. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Tiger leaders - USE SHARED LEADERSHIP! Get ALL Adult Partners involved in doing EVERYTHING with their Tiger. Remember they are a TEAM. Wolf and Bear leaders - Let the boys start making decisions about what they do. Webelos leaders - Get them outside right away. Start visiting Troops in 4th grade. Give them more of a say in their den. Don't be afraid to have fun and be loud.

"A scout could also buy a uniform shirt and sell it for cash." I, personally, don't recommend using Scout Accounts for uniforms or handbooks either. There are other ways to get uniforms. Scout Shops often have deep discounts on closeout uniforms, and also often have sales on uniform packages at the beginning of the school year. Ebay, yard sales, Salvation Army stores, etc, all are places to get uniforms for dirt cheap. Then there are unit, or District, Uniform Closets. If you want to make sure ALL of the Scouts in your unit have access to a uniform creating a unit uniform closet is the way to go. My unit includes the cost of Handbooks in our annual budget, and provides them to ALL of our Scouts at no cost to the Scout. "He could take his council prize for selling alot of popcorn and sell it for cash." An incentive sales prize from the council is different from a BSA unit, using unit funds to purchase a Scout personal gear. The IRS might see purchasing personal gear as violating your charter's not-for-profit status. Is that a chance you really want to take? "He could use his scout account, go to camp and do absolutrely nothing to do with scouting..which would then make it a simple, plain personal camping excursion." He is still at a Scouting event, in a Scout camp, with other Scouts, where Scouting activities are going on around him. A "personal camping excursion" would be, well, personal, and nothing in it would be related to Scouting. "He coukld agree to transfeer $200.00 of scout account assets to another scout for $85.00 cash if he wanted to." He could agree to anything he wished, but since your Charter Organization OWNS your unit, Scout Accounts are part of the UNIT'S funds, and are managed by BSA ADULT VOLUNTEERS, if your CO, and Pack went along with that kind of scheme then it would deserve to loose it's charter and have all of the volunteers involved loose their BSA memberships as well. "He went to camp on other people's dime. Other people paid fior him to go to camp. They did not go to campm themselves, the scout did not pull monmey from his own wallet..other people pay for it. And it is the scouts gain." Again, Scout Camp is part of the Scouting program, which is a method for achieving the aims and purposes of Scouting. Also, if someone donated money specifically earmarked to be used for sending one, or more boys, to Scout Camp, then sending Scouts to camp is using the money in the way it's donor expected. "SCout goes to summer camp, gets a tshirt or patch which he could also sell." The t-shirt and patch are included in the cost of the camp, and as such are part of the Scouting program provided at/by the camp. If the Scout decides to sell his camp t-shirt, patch, and all handicrafts he made while at camp, that is his parents call. "Now, if it is a weekend camp, and he or his parents cannot afford to buy a tent, or sleeping bag, or other needed equipment..what does he do?" His parents talk to their Cubmaster, and/or their Committee Chair to see if some equipment can be borrowed from someone in the Pack, or from a local Boy Scout Troop. Equipment can usually be found if they just ask. Sleeping bags can be done without if need be. Especially in summer, all that is needed is a pillow and a few blankets, and most folks have those available. "And if we want to be technical, any money the scout gets is a personal gain." Not necessarily. The money still belongs to the Scout unit, and it's Charter Organization. If it is used for Scouting purposes it can work. However, if your Pack gives it's Scouts cash for any reason, or purchases a Scout personal gear, that is when it gets iffy. My opinion, but personally, I would rather play it safe, and not mess with possible IRS problems.

There is a difference between sharing a % of profits that a specific boy has brought in with that boy, and giving him a cut of a cash donation, no matter how small. He did not work to bring in that money. I also have a problem with allowing personal gear and equipment purchases with Scout Accounts. Personal gear/equipment is not necessarily used for Scouting. It is owned outright by the Scout/family, and can be resold for a profit if they so wish. Camping fees, Troop fees, program fees, etc, are different. That money is used directly for a Scouting activity. It helps promote the aims of Scouting by paying for a Scouting program.