ScoutNut

I never said that volunteers do not benefit from volunteering. I did post the link to the study BSA paid for. There is NO BSA program for adults. Training is NOT program. Training is what volunteers do so that we can provide the youth a better program. And please, not only is Journey to Excellence not sophisticated in any sense, it's use (or lack of use) has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Scouting IS a youth program. There is NO programing aimed at adults. The positive aspects of adults volunteering for BSA can be had from volunteering for ANY organization the volunteer is interested in. These results are NOT JUST Scouting related.

There is no dispute that volunteers (in any organization) get something out of their volunteering efforts. As a matter of fact, in 2003, BSA published a study on just that. http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/marketing/pdf/02-658.pdf The Mission of the BSA is - "to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." The BSA's mission, it's program, and even the primary goal of most of it's volunteers, are all aimed at it's YOUTH members. However, anyone who has worked in Scouting for any period of time has run into folks who are more interested in their own agenda than BSA's. That is just life.

We hold them monthly. They accomplish what they are intended to. They work well for us.

As CC one of your jobs to run the monthly Pack Leaders Meetings. These are usually held a week or two before the monthly Pack meeting. Part of what these Pack Leaders Meetings are for is so all upcoming events are discussed, and issued ironed out. The previous month's Pack meeting is discussed to learn what went well, what should have been done differently, and what should have been scrapped completely. The upcoming Pack meeting is discussed to make sure everyone knows what will be happening, who is in charge of doing what, and when the cutoff for turning in advancement info is. If needed for more in advance planning, other upcoming Pack meetings are discussed. The folks in charge (event chair usually appointed by CC) of any upcoming Pack activity/event discuss their upcoming (or just completed) activity/event to see what went right/wrong, and what needs to be done to make the activity/event succeed. A Pack Leaders Meeting before your Pack meeting/holiday party would have given all of the Pack's leaders the plan for the meeting, and would have insured that things would run fairly smoothly even if there were last minute problems. Good for the parents who stepped up to lead the caroling! Has the CM run a good program prior to these two instances? I agree that you should have a quiet, friendly, conversation with the CM to see what is going on and to let him know of your concerns. However, if this has never happened before I would not immediately leap to dismissing him from the position.

How did the meeting with the pastor go?

While it might be good PR for a unit to rebate to a transferring family (or to the unit they transferred to) the amount of their unit dues covering the months they would not be members of that unit, they are in no way required to do so. In fact, if I received a call from another unit telling me to "put my big boy pants on" and fork over money to them, I would politely decline, and never take another call from the fellow again.

The district/council have nothing at all to do with unit dues. That is entirely up to the organization that OWNS the unit. The council is covering the BSA registration and uniforms, which I feel is over and above anything they are required to do. It is now December and these families have still not purchased uniforms for their sons? They are getting freebies that more than cover what they claim to have paid in Pack dues, but still want more? It sounds to me like there is something fishy going on here. Find out from your council who the Charter Organization is for their former Pack. Give these families contact info for that Charter Org. Explain the facts of life (again) to these families. Let them know that while the council might be paying their BSA National registration, your Pack can not afford to carry them with no Pack dues payment. Either they pay your Pack's dues, or they find a different Pack. Period.

>>"By expectin' the lad to run for election when the troop is holding elections, the ignoramus of a Scoutmaster is "denying" a deserving lad of his Entitlement."

>>"While we talk about the Scouts who don't return. I have to wonder about all the female Den Leaders? Many do an outstanding job for 3 or 4 years and are never seen again."

Former youth members are also often the worst when it comes to training. They feel that because they have been a Scout as a youth (even for the briefest time, although Eagles can be the worst of the bunch) they know everything there is to know. They do not see that knowledge of the program from the youth side, although a great resource, does not give them the knowledge that an adult leader must have.

I would suggest to this Scout that he have a heart-to-heart talk with his SPL as soon as possible. It should be the SPL who appoints Scouts to leadership positions, not the SM, CC, or Committee.

>>"I wonder why the SM is deciding to deny this boy his Eagle? I would not put it that way. My observation is that the SM, the COR, the CC and the advancement chair are all on the same page: a Life scout should complete all Eagle requirements without any pro-active help from them."

From what I understand from our council office folks, for the online training that you do on MyScouting, Scoutnet only knows who/where to give training credit if you have your membership, and council, numbers listed. The Scoutnet system can not scan and pull names from councils membership lists (mainly I believe because there might be multiple folks with the same or similar names in a council). In-person trainings are different. Also, you can contact your council with proof of completion (certificate) and have them manually update Scoutnet. Of course things do change, but BSA rarely makes changes that make things LESS complicated!

>>"You will need to know your BSA membership number in order to set up an online account."

I was a Tiger den leader for 10+ years. I feel the way to get the best out of your Tiger den is to use an experienced den leader, and to use Shared Leadership in the Tiger den. The Tiger year is one of learning for BOTH the Tiger AND his Tiger Partner (parent). They are learning about BSA, the Pack, Cub Scouting, and starting to learn how to lead. Having an experienced leader to teach them, and get them "hooked" on Scouting (and volunteering) will help keep the den, and the Pack strong. SP if you, as Cubmaster, do not feel that the den leaders are delivering a good BSA program to the Scouts in their dens, you should first talk to, and counsel, them. If that does not work, talk to your Committee Chair and Charter Organization Representative, about replacing them as soon as possible.

Requirement #8 for Communication states - "Plan a troop court of honor, campfire program, OR an interfaith worship service." An interfaith worship service can be held at any time, any place. This holiday season seems like the perfect time for this. Your son can talk to his SPL about doing one for the next weekly Troop meeting.

Ann, it rather sounds to me that you are not really making much of an effort to work WITH these women. Yes, it does sound like they are different from you. But JOYLESS? Really? The program is for the BOYS, and the CC seems to work well enough with the BOYS, and their families, that they all followed her to a new Pack. She has also managed to get 2 brand new Scouts to work hard enough to complete both the Webelos rank award, and AOL, in six months. That is no small task. The CC also seems to inspire so much loyalty in the folks that know her that one, with no child in the program, will drive 34 miles round trip to help her, and the PACK, out. All this while putting up with being disrespected by the Pack's leaders. Wow, that sounds like so much fun, I want to sign up for that! Did you ever consider that your two old, lump, do little to nothing, Committee members, left simply because with the Pack finally having the help it needed, they no longer felt obligated to show up any more? Your big toss-up over the PWD workshops could have been averted if you would have simply called the CC, and told her about the offer by your UC to expand the den PWD talk to the entire Pack, BEFORE you went ahead and invited everyone. Instead you cut her out of the loop, and made her feel like you went behind her back. Then you really could not understand why she was upset? You seem to want to run the entire show, with a CC there only as a placeholder on paper. You can NOT be BOTH CC and CM. If you try, neither job will be done well. A Pack needs a "fun" guy to work with the boys (you), and a "serious" guy to do the administrative/oversight/support stuff (the CC). If left to yourself, as you want to be, your Pack would not survive past this month. It would simply cease to be when it was not rechartered for another year. You all need to stop "marking your territory", and remember this is, first and foremost, for the BOYS. Do your job as Cubmaster. Let the Committee Chair, and the Committee members, do their jobs. By the way, there is no such thing as a "quorum" in Cub Scouts. You need to learn to work TOGETHER.

The person(s) who can say "NO" to ANY unit volunteer are the ones who approve the BSA Adult Application - http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-501.pdf "Unit committee chairman approves all adult unit members except the chartered organization representative and committee chairman." "The chartered organization representative is approved by the head of the chartered organization. Following approval by the unit committee chairman, all other adult unit members must be approved by the head of the chartered organization or the chartered organization representative." "Scout executive or designee must approve all unit Scouters."

>>"Scoutnut: Actually ASM's can be on (E)BOR's just like they are also allowed to be serving as committee members. According to the policy the Scout's Scoutmaster and any and all relatives are not allowed to serve on the EBOR. The Scoutmaster can attend the (E)BOR but only as an information source for the Board meaning the board can ask him/her questions about the scout. So a Scoutmaster that is unrelated to the Scout and is from another troop can also serve on the EBOR and any other BOR."

Absolutely nothing wrong with competition, and trophies, in Cub Scouts. As long as it is not taken to extremes and is the be all, and end all, reason for the event. Just because boys are Cub age does not mean they do not know about winning and losing. Pinewood Derbies - I don't particularly like the free for all, you pick who you race against, start the next race before the present race is even finished, type of race SP describes. To crazy, with to little point. We use a program that races each Scout against every other Scout, in every lane of the track. We usually end up with every boy racing about 8-10 times. 20-30 times might work with only 8-10 Scouts, but is simply not possible with 35-40 boys. We have the final race between the three Scouts with the most wins. This gives us our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place overall winners. These boys receive a PWD medal, along with the participation certificate, ribbon, and display stand (courtesy of the Webelos working on Craftsman), that everyone gets. We also have everyone vote on three different design awards. These boys are given an award certificate. The boys learn that even if there are winners and losers, they can still have loads of fun, both with their parents building the car, and with the other Scouts racing the car. Sportsmanship is a big part of what they are learning also. We also have a Cardboard Box Derby, where the dens each build a vehicle out of cardboard and run relay races, through various obstacles, against each other. They love it. I think they like creating the niftiest vehicle more than actually winning the race! We play games at most Pack (and den) meetings. While someone always "wins", or at least does better than others, the main point is to have fun.

I find it amazing that 2 Packs, 2 Troops, and 2 Charter Organizations, were all so intimidated by the great way you ran the units that they "fired" you, and lied to all of the parents in the units. Perhaps you should look for some good units for your sons to join, and take a break from leadership for a while. Good Luck.

>>"I have two ASM's that have told me that they will not be part of his EBOR">"He is only in scouting because his father made him.">"He has told his friends that when he makes Eagle he's gone."

If he is not performing his duties as PL to your expectations, tell him that. Work WITH him to complete his POR satisfactorily. There is nothing from BSA that states he MUST hold the position of PL, no matter what. If he can not fulfill the responsibilities of the position, and working with him does not help, that does not mean that he has crappy Scout Spirit and should be banned from the rank of Eagle. It means that the SM should take him out of the position of PL, and work WITH the Scout to find a POR that is a good fit for his skills.

Sorry Exibar, but it sounds to me like you simply do not like this young man very much, or like the fact that he does not do things the way that YOU want him to. How is not being very proactive (only doing things when asked) not living up to the Scout Law? Where does BSA require that the Eagle project paperwork be completed on the timetable of the SM? Why is it wrong for him to be honest that he will not be working on his project paperwork over this Winter? Especially when you say he has a few YEARS before he turns 18! If he can't do lashing, or tie certain knots, it is probably because once he learned them (a number of years ago) for a rank, he never had to use them again. His Troop did not give it's Scouts (or maybe just him) opportunities to use the skills that had been learned. When skills are not used they are lost. That is not the Scouts fault. It is also NOT a reason to withhold his Eagle rank. I suggest, instead of looking for ways to hold this young man back, you praise him for his willingness to try to teach and help, even when he is struggling with the skill himself. I suggest you help this Scout to improve by refreshing his dulled/lost skills. I also suggest you take a good, hard, look at your Troop program, and make sure all of the Scouts have opportunities to keep the skills they learn fresh.