ScoutNut

SSS - As I posted "Some Troops have a self-imposed cut off number. Others do not." AKdenldr - Are you saying that your Brownie Troop has 12-20+ girls with one registered leader, and one non-registered parent who often does not show up? It sounds to me like the leaders of your Brownies were either not trained, or simply do not care about following the GSUSA rules for adult/girl ratios. GSUSA requires at least 2 unrelated, adult volunteers, at least 18 years old, approved and screened by the local council, one of whom must be female. The number of additional required adult volunteers is based on the size, and age of the group, and the activity involved. Per GSUSA Volunteer Essentials, for a Brownie group meeting with up to 20 girls, 2 leaders are required. For a regular meeting with 21-28 Brownies, 3 leaders are required. For Brownie events/travel/camping the number of adult volunteers required goes up (1-12girls/2adults, 13-18girls/3adults, 19-24girls/4 adults). As to how bridging works in a multi-level Troop, it would be similar to how Cubs graduate from one level to another but stay in the same Pack. If you have all Brownies, but 2 grades, it might get trickier. Third grade Brownies bridging to Juniors might have to form a new Troop (with a new Troop number). Or, if you keep them with the Brownie Troop you might have to form a new, multilevel, Troop (with possibly a new Troop number). It depends on how your local Council does things. The best way to get accurate answers is to take your Council's training, and purchase/read the appropriate literature. You should also look thru the GSUSA National, and your local Council, websites.

The comment was made - >>"If A Scout lost his HB between the SM signing the SM conference in the HB and the BOR, then the BOR has nothing to sign so no BOR. possible."

>>"So, it looks like I'm going to start a fall AOL den with 5 boys. The question is, as they become pass the AOL requirements, should they join the troop right away, or remain in the Web den (effectively marking time) until the rest of them are ready? Based on the schedule I've laid out (which includes a lot of group Web/Scout camping) most of them should be ready to bridge by the end of October, which the remaining few just needing to wait until they're 10-1/2."

BSA does not require a Scout to have a handbook. It is a handy tool, but NOT a REQUIREMENT. The necessary signature for a BOR is on the advancement report, not in a handbook. A BOR should not be for flipping thru a handbook to verify checkmarks, or for retesting a Scout on his requirements. If - "a scout presents himself ready for this Board of Review, sharp in uniform and sash" - then his SM and the Troop Advancement Chair obviously felt that he had completed his requirements and was ready for a BOR. A BOR for advancement should not be scheduled unless a Scout is ready for that step. Unless the BOR members are newbies who know nothing of the Boy Scout program (and if that is the case why are they on a BOR), they should have at least an idea of what the requirements are for the rank the Scout is there for (being prepared goes for the BOR members as well). Run a normal BOR. Ask the Scout what he liked best about working on this rank. What camping trips he attended. Favorite meal he cooked. What camp gadget did he make. What was his POR. How did he feel he preformed in it. Would he like to hold that POR again. What service projects he participated in. How did he feel about them. How did he live by the Oath and Law. Etc, etc. I would certainly NOT expect a Scout to remember the name of every person who signed off in his HB, and the date they signed it off. That is absurd. Most kids don't remember what they did that morning much less who signed what, when, months ago. Teachable moment - yes. Ask the Scout how he plans on keeping track of things he has accomplished, and still needs/wants to accomplish at this point with no HB. Help him to discover ways to be better organized. Support, encourage, teach. Do not humiliate and punish.

National is NOT requiring all leaders to be trained for their positions. Your LOCAL COUNCIL is. From the Fall 2011 Training Times on required training - "It was announced a couple of years ago that required training was coming for all Scouting leaders. There are currently about 80 councils that are requiring leader training, and 19 of the 80 councils are part of an official pilot program. We are now reviewing the results of the pilot councils, as well as the councils who did it on their own. As an update, until we finish the analysis and work out the issues, there is no national training requirement except for Youth Protection. However, local councils do have the option to make training mandatory and we support the efforts of those councils! We have not set a new timeline to make training a requirement in all councils at present."

A Girl Scout Troop is not a Cub Scout den. The size of your Troop depends on how many girls that want to join, and how many adults you have to help. Single grade Troops tend to be smaller, while multiple grades, and multiple levels, tend to be larger. Also younger levels like Brownie tend to be larger. Like BSA, by the time the girls are in high school there are lots of things competing for their attention and the numbers get smaller. Some Troops have a self-imposed cut off number. Others do not.

These pages from the GSUSA National site might help also - http://www.girlscouts.org/program/basics/for_volunteers/insignia/list/brownie.asp http://www.girlscouts.org/program/national_program_portfolio/pdf/what_brownies_do.pdf http://www.girlscouts.org/program/girlsguide/pdf/gggs_tip_sheet_d_b_j.pdf I suggest purchasing a Brownie Handbook or as it is now called A Girl's Guide to Girl Scouting for Brownies. I suggest putting together your own spreadsheet showing what the girls in your Troop are working on and have completed.

>>"my catch phrase has become "the necker goes OVER the collar" "

A boy can be a Webelos Cub Scout until the end of 5th grade, or he is 11.5 years old - which ever is LATER. A Scout with disabilities is a different matter. When did this boy join your Pack? If he was already 11 years old when he joined, why did your Pack not tell him to by-pass Cubs and go straight to Boy Scouts? If he joined at the beginning of 5th grade, but was not yet 11, why didn't the Pack cross him to Boy Scouts with the rest of the 5th graders? If the BOY (not parents, or Cub leaders) wants to earn his AOL that badly, he should be supported, but his options should be CLEARLY explained to him, and he has only until the end of 5th grade (or 11.5) to earn it. Personally, I would have encouraged him to move on to Boy Scouts as soon as he turned 11. He would by now be on his way to earning Boy Scout awards, and getting ready to go to Summer Camp with his Troop.

You have given the new PD a heads up, a few different times. You have helped give the new PD a running start. What would you like to do about the possible issues you see that might crop up? Take back the position of PD? Take on the position of CD? It is now no longer your baby. You have done the best you can. You need to let the current staff do their own thing, and make their own mistakes.

Girl Scout cookies here cost $4 per box. Been there, done that, and know what a pain it is. So I will buy both popcorn and cookies from any Scout who actually asks me.

GSUSA has NATIONAL product sales, using only NATIONALLY vetted and approved vendors, selling items that are trademarked by GSUSA NATIONAL. BSA has no NATIONAL product sales of any kind. All fundraising is left totally in the hands of the individual councils.

Have you all considered that the only thing that the "conflicting" quotes need to make them the same as the must be 10 quotes, is simply a comma? "Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old." or Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award, and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old. In the second version the comma makes it clearer that if you are not 11, but have EITHER completed 5th grade OR earned AOL, AND are 10 years old, you can be a Boy Scout. Punctuation is not always a strong point in any publication. I believe that Scoutnet would not allow your council registrar to put in a birthday for a Boy Scout that would make him less than 10 years old. You can check with your council registrar to verify.

From the current BSA Youth Application - "Your son can be a Scout if he has completed the fifth grade and is at least 10 years old or is age 11 or has earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but has not reached age 18." A boy MUST be at LEAST 10 years old, even at the end of fifth grade. A 9 year old has not met the age requirement for joining Boy Scouts.

Cub levels are age - or - grade dependent. If your current Tiger will be graduating 1st grade in June and going into 3rd grade, then he can be EITHER a Wolf, or Bear Cub Scout, but not both. Having the boy rush thru the Wolf requirements simply to have another bit of bling on his shirt is not right. He should be in one level, or the other, for the entire next year. Since there are no other boys in his Tiger den, he will not be leaving a friend behind. But, your Pack might pick up some new Wolf Cubs in Aug/Sept for him to work with. The Scouts in the current Wolf den will be his classmates come June, and most likely his buddies by Sept/Oct. A BIG consideration would be when he will be turning 10 years old. A Webelos has to be at LEAST 10 years old to join a Boy Scout Troop with his AOL. If he goes into the Bear den, but will not be able to cross to Boy Scouts with the rest of his den because he will not yet be 10, then keeping him in the Wolf den next year might be the better choice. Personally, if his age for crossover is no problem, I would put him directly into the Bear den with his classmates at graduation in June. HOWEVER - the FINAL decision of whether to be a Wolf or a Bear Cub Scout for the next year is up to the boy, and his parents.

>>"But if the unit is leaving to join the BPSA, how is losing BSA membership an issue?"

Our Pack invites our UC to do a uniform inspection as part of our November Pack meeting every year. A very nice gentleman, and a good friend to the Pack.

And when you explain how he did not earn First Class please keep in mind that NO WHERE in any BSA requirements is it required for a Scout to be tested more than ONCE, or to retain information for any specified period of time.

There is nothing wrong with the CO setup. Personally I think it works better (even at it's worst) than the alternative that the OP suggested of the council owning the units. If your problem is that the CO "owns" the units assets, what do you think will happen when the council owns them? The council's name will be required on all unit bank accounts, and financial reports will be required to go to council every year showing where every penny went, including unit/den dues. Any equipment purchased with unit funds would have to be turned into council if the unit disbanded. Participating in council sales will become mandatory if you wish to do any other money-earning activities. As Nike stated, this is the GSUSA model, and one that I do not feel will work well with the BSA program, and how it's units are put together. If your concern is the preponderance of religious organizations as CO's, then simply look for a different kind of CO. There are plenty of possibilities out there that do not include religious organizations or public schools. Heck, you can even form your own CO if you really want to (not the best way, but possible).

>>"now, the boys that were at our annual scout lock-in instead of this family campout were not afforded the opportunity to earn initials on these requirements so they did the right thing and lost while these three families did the wrong thing and won.">> So the boys who went to the Troop event "lost" because the PLC planned activities that did not include these specific requirements? Really? What kind of events DID the PLC plan for the Troop event? What kind of events would YOU have preferred they plan? How could these other Scouts "win" simply because they did different activities at an entirely different event? Maybe you should inform the PLC that Scouts are not allowed to work on their own because then any others who have not done the same exact thing, at the same exact time, have "lost" out. >>"before you respond, this lock in is an annual event following a long 4 day winter campout. it was on our yearly calendar with final plans being decided by the PLC over a month earlier.">"these families chose to go on this family campout instead of supporting an already planned troop event because they were upset over an earlier issue of MB requirements. one of their group was signing off on requirements that had not been met, adding to requirements and deleting other requirements. after i told this mb counselor (with the support of the SM and CC) that this was not acceptable is when this group decided to go off on their own. this counselor had been thru the yearly MB counselor training and had actually been re-trained because of earlier issues but still refused to follow guidelines and policy so now you have the rest of the story."

>>"you can bet our policy will be crystal clear from this point forward."

>>"they are saying it does not have to be an official scout event to work on rank advancement, i say it does but cant find anything to back me up."

>>"Remove clothing article before washing and ironing."

What exactly are "real" buttons? Just about all are now made of plastic (unless you pay extra for bone, metal, wood, etc). The cotton setting is the high heat setting and plastic will melt at that setting. Don't forget to clean off the bottom of the iron or the melted residue might transfer to the next thing you iron.

Congratulations! and GO CUBBIES!! (sorry! couldn't resist!)(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)