ScoutNut

Who is your Charter Organization? Who is the other Charter Organization? Bottom line is that the school is not "yours". All of the boys attend. I suggest that you play nice with the new Pack in town. It will not do your Pack any good to be seen as "bullying" the new guys. This might encourage your Pack to step up it's game, and provide an even better program that it already does. Parents will usually go where they perceive there child will receive a better program. Show them that is you.

Public schools cannot charter BSA units. Usually the Charter Organization is the school Parent Association, or some other school organization. It is very rare (and in my opinion unnecessary) for a Charter Organization to charter 2 of the SAME BSA units. As Basement stated, if you are talking about recruiting, there are usually "gentleman's agreements", among area units as to who recruits from where. However, boys are free to join any BSA unit (Pack/Troop/Team/Crew/Ship) they like. They are not REQUIRED to join ONLY a specifically designated unit because of the school they attend.

I kept everything on son's blue Cub Scout shirt, and started fresh with the Webelos on the tan. It makes for a nice keepsake of his Cubby years.

>>"There's realy no problem, exactly, but more of a concern about not following the program."

I have 1 Cub Scout uniform, 1 Boy Scout uniform, and 1 Unit Commissioner uniform. Never felt it necessary to worry about a "resume", blending, or standing out. Just doing the job the best I can.

Maybe I am missing something. These are Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts going for their Eagle BOR. They have the official uniform, and wear it to Pack meetings and special Pack activities. They have an activity uniform (as recognized by BSA), and wear that to den meetings and Pack camping trips. So what is the problem? The Cubs are in uniform. Good for them! If you really insist that Tigers show spit and polish, talk to the den leader about asking the Adult Partners to have their Tigers wear the official uniform to den meetings. BTW - are your den leaders always fully uniformed in the complete, official, uniform?

The money in "Scout Accounts" does NOT belong to the Scout. It is not simply a mini personal business venture for the Scout. The money in all of the Scout Accounts is held by the Charter Organization, and is to be used for SCOUTING purposes ONLY. From the "Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America", under Article XI, Section 1 - Finance : "All money raised by or received for the benefit of a unit or local council and all property acquired by a unit or local council shall be deemed to be received or acquired solely for the benefit of Scouting as interpreted and promoted by the Boy Scouts of America." Also : "In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the local council, if there is one, or if there is no local council, dispose of the same in accordance with the direction of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. In the case of a chartered organization, any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organization or the chartered local council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America." If a Scout "cashed out" his Scout account in order to attend a personal, non-Scout related, Summer Camp, then I recommend that this Scout receives an IRS form showing this amount as taxable income to the Scout. Of course that might cause the Pack's Charter Organization's tax status to be in question, and might loose the Pack it's charter. But obviously that is of no concern to your Pack Committee. Perhaps someone (Pack Committee Chair?) might wish to give the Charter Organization a head's up, and explain what they decided to do with the CO's funds, why, and what the consequences might be.

>>"If I got MY Cub Pack"

Yep, the length of time need to serve in a Position of Responsibility (POR) is 4 mos for Star, and 6 mos for Life and Eagle. It is also not required that the time be all in the same POR. So if a Scout working on Star was a Den Chief for only 2 months, those 2 months would be counted as time in a POR. He would then need 2 more months in another POR in order to fulfill the Star requirement. A year in service as a Den Chief is one of the requirements needed to earn the Den Chief Service Award. The award is not required for advancement in the Boy Scout program.

I agree with Q. Is there a desire on the part of the YOUTH for a Venturing Crew? If you have to cancel outings now due to lack of adult volunteers, it will not get any better if you also need to have female volunteers available. You can not just "convert" from a Boy Scout Troop to a Venturing Crew. They are two completely separate, and different, kinds of BSA units. Like with any new unit you will need to find a Chartering Organization. This can be your current CO, or a different one. You can not take the Troop number to a Crew. Again, separately chartered units. Consider that if not all of the boys want to join a Crew, they might want to stay in the Troop, and try to keep it running, join another Troop, or quit Scouting altogether. Your Crew could end up significantly smaller than your Troop is now, especially if the boys can not convince any females to join.

As kidsntow stated he is in an LDS Pack, age has everything to do with it. As Lisa stated their program is tied directly to age, and not school grade. They utilize the BSA program as a component of their religious training programs. LDS does not use the Tiger program. Boys begin Cub Scouts as a Wolf when they turn 8 years old (the youngest age they can be baptized). They become a Bear on their 9th birthday, and a Webelos on their 10th. The Webelos program is one year only. On their 11th birthday they leave Cub Scouts to enter the 11 year old Scouting program. On their 12th birthday they start the Priesthood program for Young Men and become Boy Scouts. At 14 they join a Varsity Team. At 16 they move into a Venturing Crew. On their 18th birthday they leave the Scouting program altogether. The "birthday" kidsntow is referring to is their 11th birthday, when they must leave Webelos. Since the AOL presentation is scheduled for next month, I am assuming that these three boys will all turn 11 within 1-2 months. As has been stated, if AOL has been approved, there is not much you can do at this point but try to make the boys remaining time in the Webelos program the best it can be.

BSA has a specific program layout to earn Webelos and AOL in one year. It is a pity the former leaders did not follow it, and were more interested in the giving the boys bling than having them actually earn an award. There is a good possibility that the former Webelos leaders (and even the CC and CM) have never been fully trained. I suggest that you talk to the CC(Committee Chair) and CM(Cubmaster), and show them how the requirements have been gone around. Get their thoughts on how to proceed. If they are adamant that the boys receive their AOL, then simply do the best you can, in the time you have left with each Webelos, to cover the requirements they are missing. Hopefully, the folks running the 11 year old Scout program will do a better job of it.

lisawe1215 - you don't say how your Tiger meetings are run. Do you insist that the Adult Partners attend with their Tiger? Do you treat the Tiger and his Adult Partner as a Team, and have the Partner do everything (and I DO mean everything!) with their Tiger? Are the Partners having as much fun as their Tigers? I agree with assigning a specific requirement/elective/outing to a specific Tiger Team. Talk to them (the team of Tiger and his Partner) face-to-face about it and offer any help they need. However, make it clear that they (Tiger and Partner BOTH) are in charge and will run the meeting. Drop the snacks. Water is about all that is really needed. Don't worry about doing things "right". Read through the Tiger Handbook. It is really the best source of information on the Tiger program. By now all of your Teams should have completed, and received their Bobcat award, their Tiger Totem, and most (if not all) of their Tiger requirement beads. Work on award requirements, electives, and other misc FUN things. The Tiger level is supposed to be a FUN introduction to Scouting. Tigers and their parents should be having FUN while learning about Scouting, the Pack, and a bit about the world around them. As for your interaction with the rest of the Pack, and it's leaders - You say you were not "invited" to the first or second Pack Leaders Meeting. You also said that the third Pack Leaders Meeting was held while everyone was off on a Pack trip. I am a bit confused. The date/time/place of the monthly Pack Leaders Meetings are usually fairly well publicized (in the Pack calendar). Pack leaders (which includes all den leaders) don't need to be "invited" to these meetings. They are just expected to be there. It also seems rather counter-productive to schedule a meeting for all of the Pack's leaders for a time when many/most of them would be out of town on a Pack trip. Have you attended any of the other monthly Pack Leaders Meetings (meetings #4/Dec thru #7/March)? How do you find out what is needed for the month's Pack meeting? How do you turn in the list of things that your Tigers have completed during the month and need to be recognized for at the Pack meeting? At this point I recommend you stop waiting for them to come to you. Stop waiting to be "invited". Seek out the help and information you need, yourself. Call the Cubmaster and ask for a schedule of Leaders Meetings. Ask about the next Pack meeting and what, if anything, your den needs to do to help/prepare for it. Ask for the contact information for any former Tiger den leaders (current Wolf, Bear dens), then give these folks a call and ask them out for a cuppa at your local coffee spot to pick their collective brains on ideas you can use on your den. Good Luck - Have FUN - and remember - Tigers are G-R-R-R-R-R-E-A-T !!!

Every month, from September thru May most dens meet three times, and the entire Pack meets once. Sometimes we will also have additional Pack-wide activities during those months (hike, corn maze, hockey game, etc). For the months of June-August, we do 1-3 Pack-wide activities, per month (kite fly, picnic, fishing derby, campout, summer camp, rocket shoot, etc).

>>""Graduating" is the term I use for Cubs who are moving by grade but have not earned their rank. It happens."

The reason that you have found no ceremonies "graduating first-year Webelos to second-year Webelos" is that there is nothing to graduate to. There is only ONE Webelos program (just as there is one Tiger, Wolf, and Bear). It is 12-24 month's long, but still only one program. We would usually bring up the rising 5th graders and give them a new necker slide with the AOL on it, and a vittle kit. They would be encouraged to continue working toward their AOL. They then would assist the other dens with their graduation ceremonies.

2-deep leadership is not needed when counseling a merit badge. All that is needed is that the Scout doing the badge bring one "buddy" along so there is no 1-on-1. A merit badge counseling session is not the time for a group of friends (who are not there to work on the badge) to be joking around. If you wanted to "lighten his mood" it should have been done on his (and your) own time, either before, or after, the Scout's merit badge session. It should certainly not have interrupted the Scout and MBC working on the badge. And as a point - yes, technically, either a verbal OR written report would work. HOWEVER, it is the Merit Badge Counselors call, NOT that of the Scouts "buddies", which type of report is needed. If the Scout has a disability that makes writing difficult/impossible, that should have been brought out by the SCOUT (again, not his "buddies") at the very beginning, and discussed with the MBC.

Talk to the parents. Actually I am rather surprised the other Webelos have not made a point to bring this up to the Scout. Most boys that age are not shy about LOUDLY expressing themselves. Especially about something as obvious as you say this is.

The requirements clearly state for the Scout to "submit a report" on the project for req #4. The requirements also clearly state to "discuss" with the merit badge counselor the project for req #5. Given the two distinctly different ways the requirements handle projects, I feel (baring any documented handicap with the Scout) that asking for a quick written recap was well within the MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR'S purview. As for the "chart". The requirements do not state anything about a chart. They state to prepare a list of chores and keep track of how often they are done. This does not have to be anything fancy. It can consist of simply putting tick marks after each name on the list. From the description, nothing was added to the requirements. How the REGISTERED MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR chose to teach/counsel this badge was up to the MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR. The bottom line is that neither MIB, or MIBF, were there as counselors for this merit badge. There were there for Youth Protection purposes ONLY. I would have reminded them that at the get go. When they interrupted the MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR, in front of the Scout, I would have explained my reasons, and then asked if the Scout would prefer to continue, find a different REGISTERED MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR, or wait until either MIB, or MIBF, became REGISTERED MERIT BADGE COUNSELORS for Family Life. As you might have guessed, I am stressing the fact that only a registered merit badge counselor for a particular badge has the final say as to what they approve. Starting an argument in front of a youth member on the semantics of written vs verbal is down right rude. Going to the District Advancement Chair after the fact was entirely their call, and perfectly fine. However, I question what they expected him to do. Did they want him to rescind the badge and have the Scout complete it with a different counselor (even though this is not possible)? Did they want him to take you off of the rolls of counselors for the Family Life badge? Or maybe just threaten to? Or did they want to have dad take their side and chew out mom for not listening to them?

Put the parents in charge of their children. Children should be helping their parents. As part of the closing CM (Cubmaster) Minute, the CM should announce that there will be no running/yelling/wrestling after the meeting. Remind the Scouts (and their families) that they have promised to "Help Other People" and that means that any kids staying in the meeting space should be working WITH their parents to clean it up. If boys start running/yelling have the CM (or another Pack leader) stop them, and redirect them to their parents.

While your CO might support a single Girl Scout Troop, with giving the Troop a place to meet, and possibly even some financial support, the Girl Scout Troop is NOT "theirs". They do NOT OWN the Girl Scout Troop. The local Girl Scout Council is the body that owns that Troop (and it's funds and equipment). The Girl Scout Troop that your CO supports must follow the rules, regulations, and guidelines, of the GSUSA Council that owns them. Their program can NOT be adjusted, or manipulated, by the CO in order to reflect it's own values and mission. The AHG program will not replace GSUSA because their base/focus is so very narrow. It is nowhere near as broad as a truly national organization's needs to be. The are a "niche" program only. BTW, I too would look elsewhere for a BSA unit if my unit's CO chartered an AHG group. I would question that the CO's religious policies had turned toward a much more limited, and aggressive, direction, and would be concerned that those polices/views would affect their BSA program.

>>"Is this now a formal recognition by BSA that a Tiger, Wolf or Bear cub scout can camp overnight with his parents, and that's a sanctioned BSA event?"

They don't want a SM, or a new ASM. What they want is someone to come in and help them "fix" their broken program, then go. Give them the number of the District Commissioner. This sounds like something that would be better handled by a good Unit Commissioner.

If your Pack is so strong why is it that you must look to your Charter Org's Troop for Committee members? As CM, and den leader, you are already doing 2 jobs, which is one more than you should be doing. How many more jobs are you doing that are not really in the CM's job description? At your next Pack Leaders meeting (for den leaders, committee members, and any and all Pack leaders) discuss finding folks to take on all of the different jobs you do. Ask each den leader to recommend a parent from the den for each available job. Discuss who the group feels would be the best for each job. Then get to talking those folks (face to face) into taking on the responsibility for their Pack. Make sure they know they will have all of the help and support they need. One off topic question - How would all of your 4th grade Webelos be able to earn their AOL and join Boy Scouts by this June? Did they all turn 10 years old between June and December?

A Pack can have a great "year round program" by simply staying active as a Pack over the Summer months. Some ways to do that are to have Pack activities such as - Family Campouts, kite flys, picnics, Council Summer/Day camps, hiking, Fishing Derby, rocket shoot, etc. Earning the Summertime Pack award is a good way to do at least the minimum.