ScoutNut

Our CO charters both a Pack and a Troop. However, having our entire Pack and Troop all meet at the same time/place each week would be impossible. There is simply not enough room for that. Also, not every Webelos goes to our Co's Troop, and there are a number of COs in our area that have only one unit. Having a Pack and Troop that meet at the same time/place, sharing opening ceremonies, and then going off to do their own, separate, programs, is way different than having a Webelos den meet with the Troop every week, and treating them like another Boy Scout patrol. If your Cub Scout Webelos den is in essence becoming a Boy Scout patrol inside of one particular Troop, then the only way a Webelos would have any option in Troops is to start looking at different Troops as a Bear to decide which to move to as a Webelos. Now, if BSA ever changes their program to move Webelos out of Cub Scouts and into Boy Scouts (as fred8033 seems to feel is coming sooner or later) than the Cub Scout Bear level would become the "new Webelos", and looking at different Troops to join would be part of their program. Until then, I prefer having the Webelos dens visit a number of different Troops, and to have our Pack and Troop interact in a variety of ways.

What about those Webelos who might not want to join that particular Boy Scout Troop? When the are "forced" to attend to Troop meetings of one only Troop they get the impression that it is that Troop or nothing. Can't say I am a fan of that concept at all. (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

As others have stated, Trail's End has plenty of higher end products. At 10-15 bags at $2 per bag, that would put your proposed product in the $20-$30 range. Definitely a higher end, NOT less costly, product. Would the product sell? There might be a market for it. Single serving 100 calorie bags are rather popular lately. I think it would depend on how big the 100 calorie bags were, and how good it tasted. As someone else noted the light microwave 18 pack is rather popular. Perhaps if Trail's End did mini micro packs of their light (a bit less than half the full size which is 230 calories popped), in an 18 pack at around half the cost of the full size, they might sell. Of course this is all speculation as Trail's End does not have anything like these products currently available.

Oh, and - Welcome! Happy Scouting!

>> "no uniforms at events with alcohol".

As others have said, it depends on the award. Training knots, and special BSA adult awards (ie: Silver Beaver) are presented by council at the annual District Volunteer Dinner. Adult religious awards are recognized at our Parish Scout Sunday worship service. The award itself is presented by the Archdiocese at a special area-wide ceremony. Adult religious square knot is presented at the next Troop COH, or Pack meeting, directly after Scout Sunday in February. Adult thank you recognitions are handed out at the last Pack meeting, or Troop COH, of the school year at the end of May.

>>" I will be calling for at least those who signed the document but all very likely all those in Council who have had involvement with this situation to be terminated as well due to their violation of policies and procedures."

>>"5) I followed up with the SM yesterday. He is at a total loss about how to handle this ASM other than to just let him be scoutmaster again."

>>"If we choose to set up a seperate Troop can we do that at the same Charter Organization?">"I saw some one say they had multiple Troops at a school but I didn't know if this was different"

One question, in the long list of folks you asked about relating this incident to, the one you did not mention was the SM. Why? Where was the SM? Is there a problem there? Yes, this ASM's behavior was horrible, but he did apologize to you. However - ditto to what was said by all. Especially Beav's comment that you should have talked to the other ASM before you pulled that stunt with your son, and left your son hanging there in the middle of a very bad situation. I rather feel that you need to apologize to your son for that one.

Yep, it is hard when they wait until their Senior year for their Gold project. Lots going on with limited time. It is sad that your daughter felt so intimidated by this one person that she decided not to work to correct any issues, or to fight for her project. However, as with Eagle, and BSA, earning the Girl Scout Gold Award is not the purpose/goal of Girl Scouting. Not completing the Gold Award is not the end of the world. She still learned a lot, and had lots of fun along the way in her time in Girl Scouts. And, she is still having fun, and learning new things with her Venturing Crew. Sounds like a good thing to me!

>>"but she is now too old for the gold award."

They are not supposed to just say "no", and that is it. They are supposed to give suggestions on what is needed for approval. Did she get any comments on what needed to be added/changed in her project? Like it or not, how to face up to insufferable people is part of what our girls are learning. They are also learning how to deal with the "real world", learn from mistakes, and accomplish their goals despite setbacks. Encourage her not to give up. Remind her that there are still teens in need of her project, and giving up does not help them, or her. Give her a hug, and tell her to get back in there and fight for what she wants! Good luck!

IF, the OP is interested in alternate activities for his daughter there are a number of them out there beyond just AHG. Some other programs to look into are: Camp Fire, Indian Princesses, 4-H, and Junior Catholic Daughters of the Americas.

From the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America - Article XI - "All money raised by or received for the benefit of a unit or local council and all property acquired by a unit or local council shall be deemed to be received or acquired solely for the benefit of Scouting as interpreted and promoted by the Boy Scouts of America." "In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the unit committee shall apply unit funds and property to the payment of unit obligations and shall turn over the surplus, if any, to the local council, if there is one, or if there is no local council, dispose of the same in accordance with the direction of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. In the case of a chartered organization, any funds or equipment which may have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organization or the chartered local council, as may be agreed upon, pending reorganization of the unit or for the promotion of the program of the Boy Scouts of America."

Well, since he is actually, physically, in the Lodge, in Council, he is paying membership dues to I don't see a problem. Perhaps you would recommend he join a Lodge 1,000 miles away?

Dean, instead of leaving the boys "twisting in the wind", or taking over their Patrol planning, did you suggest to the PL (who at 1-1.5 years older has been on at least one or two Troop campouts before) that he might want to have a chat with his APL, and his Patrol about the unresolved items? Instead of telling the SM how to do his job, how about simply asking him about the possibility of a Troop Guide for the NSP.

Personally, I am just as happy to relegate DDT and dirt floors to the history books! I recommend 2 Scouts per 4-man tent. Son hated 2-man tents, he never fit well (6'2" by 7th grade) to begin with, and adding another Scout close to his size made it significantly more uncomfortable. Using 4-man tents allows for comfortable room for all ages/sizes of Scouts. If you don't want packs in the tents, purchase tents with vestibules. Fuzzievohs, I realize this was a PLC decision, however has anyone discussed with the Scouts what happens if they spend the money to buy all of these large tents, try Patrol Tenting, and then decide they don't like it? Will the tents be sold off on Craigslist for a much reduced rate? Will the Scouts purchase them from the Troop for their personal use? Will the tents sit, and quietly mildew away in a cupboard somewhere? What happens if next year's group of Scouts decides they don't want to tent as a patrol? Or the year after that? And, just a side note, "ultimately" the "Owners of The Charter Equipment", and all Scout equipment, is your local BSA Council.

Good grief! Over 100 girls! And this is considered to be a single Group, with one number? Is this at a school? We had about 100 Girl Scouts at our parish school, but that was not one single Group. We had separate, independently run, Troops in each grade level from K thru 8, and then the high school age girls in 9-12. There was a School Coordinator, but she was not in charge of the separate Troops. I really do not understand why your wife would want to be "reinstated" as a leader with this Group. It would seem to me to be a much better option for her, and your daughter, to form her own Cadette Troop.

From your last post it seems that what you have is a multi-level Group, not a single level Troop. Your Troop Leader is the over-all leader of the various smaller, single level groups. I can see why he wants to be the final say on anything that is done. He is the one responsible to council for the whole she-bang. All in all, I can't say I am a big fan of a multi-level Group, however I know of a few that seem to work. How many girls, and levels, are there in your Group? As to the ethics involved in having the Troop Leader and the Treasurer married, while it is not really a good idea, it is not banned by GSUSA either. Perhaps they find it to be easier since the Troop Leader is responsible for all of the financial reporting to council every year. The backpack issue was a bit sketchy. However, there is nothing wrong with the Troop Leader using his own, personal funds, not Troop funds, to purchase backpacks for his own personal use. With the fact that any equipment purchased for a Troop/Group belongs to the local Council, not the Troop/Group, we generally did not use Troop funds for equipment. We used our personal equipment, or borrowed from council, or our local Boy Scout Troop. Any Troop Committee is there to support the Troop, and it's leaders, not to vote, or otherwise make decisions for the Troop. Most Troop Committees are made up of other involved adults doing specific jobs (Treasurer, Cookie Manager, record keeper, drivers, etc). Our girls were all the same age/grade/level. We never had an "official" Troop Committee of any kind. While the leaders (01/02) would get together every so often to sort out the particulars of what was being done at upcoming meetings/activities, and who was doing what, most of the program decisions were NOT made by adults (leaders or parents). They were made by the GIRLS. Even when they were in 1st grade, the GIRLS were given options to choose from on what they would be doing/working on. They (the girls) made the decisions, then we (the leaders) would make it happen. At the Junior, and Cadette, levels, it should be the girls, not the leader, that decide if they want to backpack or not. At the Cadette level, and above, the girls should be doing most of the planning/running of their Troop. The GIRLS should be the ones with the biggest input into how often they meet. Again, I suggest your wife take the Council up on it's offer, and start a brand new, single level (perhaps single grade) Troop, for your daughter and her friends. At the beginning Cadette level (6th grade) the girls need to spread their wings and start to take over. A brand new Troop, just for them, might help them to do that. One last thought - any fighting with council should be done by your wife, not you. SHE is the registered Girl Scout leader.

>>"She said that the problem was that my wife and myself questioned what the Troop leadership had decided on some items and we questioned the some of the Troop practices and procedures.">"She said that he felt we challenged him and that he felt it best that we not be a part of the Troop.">"She informed us that the Troop Leader was Leader 01 and that he had sole discretion on whom he wished to appoint or dismiss as leaders of his Troop.">"Needless to say I was shocked that apparently Girl Scouts is a dictatorship, that Leader 01 can do whatever he/she wants and simply ask people who don't agree with them to leave.">"Considering this is a position that everyone votes on I find it hard to believe that this could possibly be true.">"Oh, by the way, they did give us 3 options to pursue. A) live with things as they are and have limited interaction and priveledges (which I don't think they can do anyway), B) join a new Troop, or C) start a new Troop. I think we are contemplating option D, which is a twist between starting a new Troop and having the parents and leaders vote on whether they really want the this type of leader as an example to their girls, or whether they wish to pursue a new leader. "

>>"The above BSA rule tends to be a big barrier to Webelos Den Camping."

A map and compass are not items that you would regularly carry with you to go to the local grocery store. These are items that the Scout would carry while on a hike in the woods. The map that you would carry should be specific to the area you are hiking in. A map to downtown San Francisco would not be much use if the Cubs are hiking in the Porcupine Mountains in the UP of Michigan. If you feel you must add this to the requirement list for your Wolf Cubs, I suggest you contact your local council and get maps of their Cub Camps.

Often GSUSA councils will host their own camporees and winter events. I can't see a BSA district, or council, allowing non-BSA registered youth, full Troops or misc singles, to participate at a BSA Klondike or Camporee.

Our Troop always camped in winter. Best time to do snowshoeing. skiing, sledding, snowball fights, etc! However, tenting was for warmer weather. Our girls would rather pick June bugs out of their stew than sleep outside in sub-zero weather! In winter we camped in cabins with a fireplace, and indoor plumbing. It's nice to be able to unload all your wet, snowy, outdoor gear, standing up!