ScoutNut

I usually come to Pack meetings prepared with a few songs and at least 1 participation story. The words to the songs I copy and leave by the door so everyone can take one. When we hit a snag or a slow spot I just grab the microphone and go! Everyone used to think I was nuts when I first started this (they still do, but that's another story - LOL!). Gradually they came around because everyone had fun! There was one Pack meeting I still remember. It was getting VERY boring so I quietly told my hubby he had to go up and make an announcement about popcorn. Yep, you got it! As soon as he said the magic word, I got up and let loose a chorus of "Announcements - Announcements" at the top of my lungs! The boys loved it, the adults looked confused, & my hubby just rolled his eyes! Hummm - Maybe I'll teach that one to my new Tigers this year! LOL!!

Laurie - On the issue of training, check with your council to see if they have Fast Start and Youth Protection videos you can borrow. You might also check out your council website. Many councils are now offering these two trainings online. Come fall keep an eye out at your council and neighboring councils for the yearly Pow-Wow and/or University of Scouting. These are day long training events and are great fun! They have lots of different classes you can take from knot tying to camp cooking to disipline in the den! Here are some sites you might find helpful: BSA National - Lots of info. Has Guide to Safe Scouting on-line: http://www.scouting.org/ My Council's on-line Fast Start & Youth Protection. You will not get credit for being YP trained unless you take it thru your own council's site, but you can browse all you want: http://www.bsa-dpvc.org/Training/030323_YPT_FrameSet.html http://www.bsa-dpvc.org/cub_scouting/cubset.htm Hope these help until you can get to your council's training. BTW - I am jealous that you were able to take BALOO. I have signed up twice now & both times it was cancelled due to lack of attendence! Nut

You say that this boy was allowed to bring a friend who was 11 and entering 6th grade. Allowed by who? Bring him where? Did he just visit a 4th grade Webelos meeting or was he registered with your Pack as a Webelos? A den meeting is not like a pick up game of basketball. You don't just bring along friends unless it is to check out the Den & Pack for the purpose of joining. Your den leaders are responsible for EVERYONE at their den meetings. The people who are registered and involved with BSA are covered by the insurance. The 11 year old friend is not. There is also no possible way he can join Cub Scouts. Since he is both 11 years old and finished with 5th grade he does not meet the joining requirements. He CAN join a Boy Scout Troop, but NOT a Cub Scout Pack. As for the bad behaviour and influences, here is a direct quote from BSA Youth Protection : "All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout membership in the unit. Units should consult with the parents of members who fail to meet behavior standards." "Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents or misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit. If problem behavior persists, units may revoke a Scout's membership in that unit. When a unit revokes a Scout's membership, it should promptly notify the council of the action." This pretty clearly tells you that you should not put up with this kind of behaviour. As a den parent and especially as Asst Cubmaster you should let your den leader know that something must be done. Good Luck

You need to take your son out of that troop ASAP. He will make more friends and there is no reason that being in another troop will lose him the friends he has there. Explain to him that friends are no longer an issue, that his saftey, both physical & mental are. Find a troop that actually follows the Scout Oath & Law.

Another possibility for the Adventure Program is a council sponsored Adventure Camp summer camp program. One of the summer camps my council has is called an Adventure Camp. It is basically a longer camp period of 4 days and 3 nights where our other Cub camps are over a weekend and are 2 days and 1 night. For all of our Cub camps one or both parents are required to attend with their son.(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

There is no Cub Scout Adventure Program, unless it is something that is council specific. Check with your council to see if it is a program that they do. What you might be thinking of is the Cub Scout Sports and Academics Program. The only patch is a large "C", but there are belt loops the boys receive for doing various activities. If they want to go more in depth into subject after they earn the belt loop they can then do some additional activites and earn the pin. The pin is displayed on the "C" patch and worn on the red patch vest.

More from the G2SS, but NOT in bold print : "A common departure site and a daily destination point are a must. If you cannot provide two adults for each vehicle, the minimum required is one adult and two or more youth members - never one on one." So Dan, it's 2 adults or 1 adult and 2+ kids.

From the Guide to Safe Scouting in bold print: "Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities. No one-on-one contact. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths." As you can see, it says that 2-deep leadership is needed for all trips & outings. It does not say anything, anywhere, about den or troop meetings. Because of this, all of your examples would be within the guidelines of the G2SS, as long as there was no one-on-one at any time. IMO, 2-deep leadership should be extended to den & troop meetings, but it is not REQUIRED by BSA.

The programs (monthly themes) repeat themselves every 3-4 years because the boys are all brand new every 3-4 years! What might be a repeat for a 5th grade Webelos is brand new fun for a 1st grade Tiger! For a long time, repeat leader YOU might have seen the same things over & over, but remember the boys haven't. The internet is a wonderful resourse. For skits, songs and jokes check out sites with old council Pow Wow books. You can get some new stuff and also old stuff re-written by people in the council. Look under Girl Scout/Guide sites as well. Also, while looking thru WAGGGS and WOSM sites for our B & G this February, I found some that included fun activities specific to that country! For den or Pack gathering activities try Crayola.com. They have lots of great sheets that can be printed off and copied.

It sounds like your council has some unique ways of doing things, but having entire troops quit because of S2B is rather a radical response. You can't let yourself, or the program you give the girls, be bogged down with the politics. If you are singing "Father Abraham" in a troop meeting and the girls all agree on the song then there is no problem. If it is for a wider council/SU function and many different types of girls (& their parents) will be there, then I can kind of see where they are comming from, even if I personally do not agree. The addage "don't sweat the small stuff" applies here. Remember, you are there for the girls, not the politics. I think that it is too early to be leaving GSUSA because of S2B. Yes, they did research, with both GS and non-GS. I believe they concentrated on the non-GS segment because those are the girls they are trying to reach. No, I am not fond of the program and neither is my Senior troop. My daughter finds it insulting to Girl Scouts to encourage girls to join based on the premise that they can pretend that it is NOT Girl Scouts. The thing that you have to remember here is that S2B is NOT written in stone! It is NOT a done deal! It is still in the evaluation stage. The leaders and the girls still have a chance to have an impact on this program. If they do not get people buying or using the program materials they will re-think them. Not all councils are even implementing the program heavily. My council is one of the largest in the country and so far I have not seen a lot of change in what they are offering the older girls (which is actually VERY little!) Scouting, both GSUSA and BSA, has it's problems and it's crazies, but IMHO it is still the best program around!

Here is a recipe and lesson plan for oobleck & another thing called glurch. These sound like FUN! http://student.biology.arizona.edu/sciconn/oobleck/oobleck.html

it sounds like you need to look for another Charter Organization for your current Pack, or another Pack. If your recharter is not signed yor Pack will cease to exist. Contact your Unit/District Commissioner. He will be able to help you. Good Luck.

BTW - GREAT JOB!! Can you send your son up here to IL? I could sure use some landscape help & that trellis looks real nice! Nut

OK - First off, your son has been involved in quite a few SM Conferences. He should know the drill by now. Hopefully his troop is just teasing him, although that is no excuse. A Scoutmaster conference is NOT a group inquisition. There should be only the SM(or ASM) and the scout, and it should be done in full view of other people. A Scoutmaster Conference is a time to get to know the scout. It is a conversation between 2 people, not a tag team question & answer grill session. Like the Eagle BOR, the SM conference for Eagle is not, and should not be, a RETEST of everything they have done since joining a scout troop. Talk to his SM & find out what exactly is going on. Let your son know that you are proud of him and that he should be proud of himself as well!!

Joni - I must say, that as much as I feel for you and your problems with the adults in your Troop & Pack, I also kind of agree with what Eamonn has to say. Take a deep breath and try to look at this dispassionately. Yes, they are a pain in your anatomy, but are they really that bad,or are you just used to something WAY different? We do not have Packmaster, never had and have no plans to start. OK, we are kind of lax on the banking side of things (my inner accountant continues to grind teeth!), but we make due. As much as my fingers itch sometimes to grap the checkbook & put together a spreadsheet that really makes sense, I don't. Why? Because I can not & will not do everything! Enough of us (me included) wear way to many hats as it is. If we can get a warm body to volunteer for something why in heavens name would I take it over from them??!! Some subtle nudging in the right direction, yes. An aduit, no. Unless I felt something was done that was highly illeagle. We also have no formal recordkeeping of advancements. The leaders tell our advancment person what they need and he writes it up & gets it. Not perfect, but it could definately be worse! We talk to each other, the den leaders know their boys & their families, in some cases the den leaders keep their own records. Our achievement person does NOT require proof that an achievement has been earned (even if he has his suspisions). It is not his job. The den leaders word (& the filled n advancement form) is good enough. For the Pack, you have gotten some good advice. Also, talk to your Unit Commissioner. He might know the people involved and be able to help. One more thing to think about, if this guy leaves CS for BS then you are rid of him in a position of authority. Now is the time to get someone in as CM who will do the job right! For the Troop, these guys CANNOT appoint a SPL if they are calling this a boy-run troop. The PL, APL, SPL & ASPL are all positions that are voted on by the boys. Trust me, boys are not dumb! Sometimes a little thick (LOL), but not dumb. If they make a mistake and vote in a SPL who is just a puppet, sooner or later THEY will see it. At which point they will either vote him out of office or vote with their feet and leave the troop. You (& your whole family) are activly looking for a new troop. Find one that suits you more than your current one and transfer to it. It may sound cruel, but what the old troop does is no business of yours once you move. You can only do so much & you sure can't do everything for every unit! If the politics in your Pack & Troop are just too much for you to handle, then don't beat yourself up over it. Move! Nut

OK, I just couldn't let this slip past as I have been waiting for the yearly post on this myth with bated breath. Yeah, I know it is a mite early, but I have seen it even earlier. Tiger uniform changing to the blue Cub Scout uniform. This is the last order of orange shirts on the shelves at national, after they are gone, it's blue all the way!!! What Horse patooty!! That one last shipment has lasted at least 5 years, if not longer! Tigers are ORANGE, at least until further notice from National. And I kinda like them that way! Nut blushing Tiger orange & black!

Hey Scrapper - Welcome to Cub Scouts!! As you have seen the personality of the den is very much reflected in the personality of the leader! Since you have 3 dens to choose from in your Pack (WOW - What a WONDERFUL thing!) do not AT ALL feel bad about switching dens. HEY ! - We want you to STAY in Scouting. That means finding a spot where you and yours feel comfortable. Your CM should know this! Different people relate to kids differently. Your leader may be REAL focused on the Tigers themselves. Whatever else you do, do NOT just do a drop off with your Tiger!!!!! And SHAME ON HIM for suggesting that!!!! What is nicest for the leaders is not necessarily the way things should be done. Hey, if that were the case I would have insisted on muzzles for my Girl Scout Troop long ago!! LOL!! I am permanent Tiger Leader. I have had parents bring sibs (boys & girls) to meetings. Not all the time, but some more than others. As Tiger Leader, you realize that in order to get an Adult Partner at the meetings you might have to have a sib or 2 also. This has never been a big deal with me. The adults are NECESSARY so I will do what it takes! Some of the sibs are older brothers or sisters. Some are in CS or GS. Some are not. Some are younger. I honestly think I like the younger (boys or girls) best. The older ones, if not in scouts, are usually bored stiff. If they are in scouts, the girls are usually comparing CS to GS with CS losing! The older CS sibs are usually either trying to "take over" the activity or pretending to be to old for such nonsense! While all of this is great fun to watch, I really like getting a chance to "brainwash" younger sibs!! There is usually plenty of misc "stuff" for the sib to do. My own kids claim I am a pack-rat. I find neat stuff (to me anyway LOL!) and keep it until a need arrises, so there is always stuff to do (last resort a piece of paper & crayons!). I love to tell the younger sibs that when they get old enough to join Scouts they will have a jump start on the others because they will already have all of these ideas to work with. You should just SEE the gleam in the the eyes (both girls & boys) of those kids! I can see the seed of scouting taking root right before my eyes! OK - I digress! Bottom line, the year is almost over. The HECK with your Tiger leader, bring your other kids if you need to (bring stuff for them to do though-just in case). For next year, pick a den you are comfortable in! Be an Asst Den Leader!! If not, talk to the leader of which ever den you choose about coming to meetings. Some leaders encourage it, others do not. It really depends on the leader. Good luck & HAVE FUN!!!! Nut

Laura - Do you have a son in your den? Technicaly, the 2 deep leadership requirement is for all trips and outings, not for den meetings. The YP requirement that would apply would be "No one-on-one contact". As long as your son was there with you there was no need to send the Denner home with his parent for 15-30 minutes.

Per YPT - Youth Member Responsibilities - All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout membership in the unit. Units should consult with the parents of members who fail to meet behavior standards Unit Responsibilities - Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. I think it is pretty clear that you should have a talk to both the boy and his parents. See what the parents feel should be done. One other thing you should do to head off this kind of thing is to make sure all troop leadership gets training. The fact that your troop is so young means that they need training even more as they have very limited experience with BS.

One year we did the "Cub-o-matic" for the boys graduating to new Cub levels. For our Webelos crossing over to Boy Scouts we added a "Scout-o-matic" to it. The 5th grade Webelos went into the "Cub-o-matic", were "processed" (received their red shoulder loops, BS handbooks, and nifty scarf slide) and came out of the "Scout-o-matic" side a brand new BS (as the Pack chanted "Be Prepared"). They were welcomed by a rep from the troop they were joining. The boys had a BLAST! We have also had a local OA ceremony team do Indian crossover programs for us. The boys like those a lot also! The ones that I (& the boys) liked the least were the boring, talky, ones where you walk accross a bridge or the stage, shake hands and that's it!

If the former director knew of these two why didn't she say something to the council executive? Why did she continue to hire them as summer counselors for all of these years? Has there ever been any complaints from girls or their parents about them? I would talk to the former camp director and see what the story is and if she can help. If you get nowhere, and still have reservations about their conduct at camp, about the only option is to talk to the other counselors. Tell them that it might be a good idea to make sure that no girls are alone with camp staff at any time. Do not spread rumors, just make it sound like a general safety precaution. Then keep your eyes & ears open at camp. If any questionable behavior occurs, talk to the 2 directors immediatly and let them know that you will not stand for it.

The BSA policy is that they would like to see the BOYS earn their OWN way in Scouting. The BSA fundraising policy is there for the BOYS & the UNIT. The BSA has NO say-so over how the CO raises money for ITSELF. As scoutldr said, the bottom line is the CO can raise funds any (legal) way they like, as long as they do NOT advertise it as being for Boy Scouts. They can advertise it as a fundraiser for THEIR organization ONLY. What they do with their funds after they are in their bank account is up to them. It may sound like splitting hairs, but that is the way it is.

Congratulations to your daughter!! What a LOT of work!! My daughter and her troopmates are working towards their Gold also.

You are right, this can only be accessed thru your council's website. After you complete the training, if you are a registered Scouter, you will receive a "certificate of completion". You can browse or just use the site for reference if you do not need the training. You can do this by using the menus at either the top or side. This is a GREAT resource, and I am glad my council FINALLY got around to adding it to their website!!

Our Troop covers a percentage (up to 100%) of the cost of summer camp. It is based on the boys participation in various service projects and fundraisers. The balance is usually covered by the boys either from their popcorn account (they get 100% of profit) or from their parents.