ScoutNut

Torveaux - National's computer system automaticaly updates EVERY Cubs level as of June 1. That does not mean that a Cub (Tiger - Webelos) can't take some extra time to finish their rank requirements. Arrow points are a 'nuther thing. Once the Cub has finished his rank requirements (if finishing them in the summer) he should go directly to working on the requirements for his next level. Brian - For quick reminders of summer dates take a look at the United States Post Office website. You can send personalized postcards to a mailing list you save in a address book. They have black/white (cheaper) or color. Add your own images, few lines of info & the USPS will create it & mail it out for you. You can even put them together early & have them mailed out on dfferent dates. The cost is more than a regular postcard, but considering it is easy, eyecatching, & personalized, not to bad. http://www.usps.com/netpost/

The "Cub Scout Leader Book" states that you can give the boys some extra time (4 wks?) after the end of the school year to finish their requirements for their rank badge. The only requirement/condition is that they can only work on ONE program at a time. In other words, while they are finishing up their Wolf requirements they can not work on anything for Bear. Ideally, rank requirements should be done at home with the family. Practically, what usually happens is the Leaders sit down & look at the handbook & the Pack calendar & decide what achievements they want to work on as a Den and when. Some things just work better in a Den setting than with the family. There might also be some outings that you want to take your boys on that will cover some achievements. They then send a newsletter home telling the families what will be worked on in Den meetings & what needs to be covered at home. As you have learned, you also need to keep after the families. Send notes home every now & then telling each one what they still need to do. Den news letters that you can individualize for each scout are great. Also, if you have any scouts who have reached rank give them their award ASAP. Don't wait for everyone to be finished. Last night I had 4 out of 6 Tigers who received their rank. Afterwards, the dad of one of the others came by to ask if he worked with his son, could the boy still get his rank. I told him of course & that seeing friends get their rank often will give boys incentive to finish up theirs. His response was that it sure gave HIM incentive to remember to look thru his son's book & sign off on things he had done! DUH! PS - Don't be suprised if by your last Den meeting before your Pack's "official" graduation you are given boys books with everything signed off! These are what we like to call "miracle ranks". Don't let it bother you too much. I would rather have a boy get his rank this way than have a leader feel sorry for him and just hand it to him without any paperwork at all. At least this way they KNOW what they SHOULD be doing and they had to look thru the book as they were signing off on everything! Have FUN!

Yep - The paperwork that was sent out was printed before National decided to "clarify" the camping date. Most councils just had a tiny blurb about the change, if even that.

Actually 2 night Pack Campouts are fine. The Guide to Safe Scouting does not restrict the number of nights allowed for Pack Overnighters & the BALOO training I received allowed for 2 nights.

No one can as of yet, unless their council offers a Day or Resident camp during the school year. The one requirement that is for all ranks is to attend Cub Scout day camp or Cub Scout/Webelos Scout resident camp anytime after September 1, 2004. Camps attended last summer did not count toward the award.

You are correct. He can go with you as long as he tents with boys only (no adult not related to him). The G2SS states that a Webelos should be under the supervision of his parent, guardian, or a parent approved adult. You should be fine. Have fun at the Camporee! Boy, I wish our council down here by Chicago would hold one of those. Sounds like a BLAST!

"Both of my boys have been out of Cubs for 5 and 7 years now" Hey - Anarchist, BTDT! My guy has been out 5 yrs too! Laurie - If you truly want to stay with Cubs, go for it! That is what I did. I saw a need in our Pack's Tiger program and became the permanent Tiger Den Leader. I love watching those little guys discover Scouting. It is also fun watching the parents become "Cubbers" and finding the ones who, so obviously, belong as Wolf Leaders! You could also talk to your District Training Chair and get involved in Cub training & running of District Cub events. With all of your ideas you would be great in training! And keep in mind, even if you decide to slow down a bit with BSA, in 2-3 years you can start all over again with GSUSA! LOL!!!

Gee - I am sorry that you feel that my questions & responses were simply "parroting from a book". I thought you wanted advise and/or suggestions. If you have already made your decision on the belt loops, fine. My suggestion was in case you wanted to see if the new Pack would pay for them. It is probable that the new Den Leader would accept the copies with the signatures that I suggested, but that is up to you. I was also concerned that there was a problem with awards other than the belt loops because you stated: "He feels so bad that his scouts/friends have ALL KINDS OF AWARDS that he himself has earned and does not get himself." I asked that you clarify what you ment by "yearly dues" because there was the possibility that you had paid the $10 National Registration a second time at your new Pack when all that was needed was a transfer fee. I am glad to hear that my concerns were unjustified on both counts. I understand that awards and activites are not purchased or paid for until they actually take place, however, if you have never been a leader, you might not realize how much they end up paying out of their own pocket, even with dues. Den dues only cover a portion of the costs involved. Costs are also BUDGETED for by the Pack at the beginning of the year. Many Packs figure up the cost involved, per boy, for awards purchased during the year. That is how they come up with the amount of their Pack dues. This amount adds up quickly as each boy can receive multiple awards at each Pack meeting & even though they might charge a fee for some Pack activites it is usually lower than the actual fee the Pack has to pay out. If the Pack has a policy of no refunds or if they feel that they have already paid out to your son the amount you paid in dues they might not agree to a pro-rated refund. I am not saying that this is right or wrong, I am simply tring to explain to you what could be the reasoning behind their decision. You can try to talk to your council about it, however you should not expect a lot from them. The most they will probably do is have the Unit Commissioner of your old Pack talk to them to see what is going on. Your Pack is "owned" by the Charter Organization, not the council, so most councils will not get involved in money matters like these. You might have better luck talking to the head of your old Pack's Charter Organization or the Pack's Committee Chairman. The bottom line is that it is up to the Pack & it's Charter Organization to make the decision. Hopefully I will not have wasted your time (& my own) & this information / point of view will be of some use to you.

Ok - First, you do NOT have to be BALLOO - OR - OWL trained to take a Webelos Den camping. OWL is extremely, highly recomended, but NOT mandatory. In order for the Pack to do camping as a PACK, they need a BALOO trained person. Neither BALOO or OWL have to be renewed. One training is all that is needed. You CM probably wants a fallback BALOO trained person. Maybe he was hoping to have YOU be the one to put together the next Pack campout. If you take OWL & not BALOO then he will be the one responsible for it instead of being able to hand it over to you. If this is the only time this training will be offered until next April, I would take OWL. Although not "required" for Webelos Leaders, it is a great training & one that you should NOT miss out on if you want to give your Webelos the best possible program. Let your CM know that since he is already taking the BALOO training, that you feel the OWL training would best suit you & your Den's current needs. Suggest he try to find another parent (someone NOT a leader already would be good) to take the training with him to give him a backup. You could offer to take BALOO the next time it is offered by your council or look into when nearby councils are holding it. The BALOO training is not council specific and whatever council you take it at will send your certification along to your council.

As a concerned parent, instead of talking to all of the boys in the troop, and possibly making this matter worse, you should talk to your Committee Chair about your concerns. Your CC can then go to your OA Lodge with any questions & then it will be up to them to investigate. I would stress to your sons (& any other scouts who ask you) that it is being looked into, but until any word to the contrary comes from an OFFICIAL OA SOURCE, the election, the SM's part in the election, this boy's tapping out, & his ordeal are legal & correct & anything else is to be disregarded as simply gossip. If, down the road, the local OA Lodge decides that the election was indeed legal, you should let your sons know that the boy's OA status has been confirmed by the Lodge and all gossip & speculation to the contrary should be put to rest immediately. Doing anything else would be very much against the best intrests of all of the boys, not to mention the Scout Promise & Law.

You don't have to go to a speciality store to find Lodge cookwear. K-Mart carries Lodge Dutch Ovens at reasonable prices.

When you say "yearly dues", is that the yearly National registration of $10, or are there other Pack & Den dues that you have paid also? Your son's National BSA registration does not have to be paid more than once per year as it is good all over the country. All that you would need to do is to fill out a transfer form and pay a $1 fee. That would transfer your son's membership from the old Pack's Charter to your new Pack's charter. If there are other Pack/Den dues involved than you would need to go the old Pack. For Den dues, which are used towards all Den related expenses, you would need to see the Den Leader. For Pack dues,which are used to pay for awards and any Pack expenses, you would need to contact the Pack Treasurer. For both of these, unless there is a written policy, it is pretty much up to the Den Leader & Pack Leaders. Because you were with the Pack for over half the school year, & the Pack paid for almost 2 years worth of Webelos badges for your son in that time, I can sort of understand their decision not to refund any Pack dues. For the belt loops, many Packs have the rule that the Pack will pay for 1 or 2 belt loops and any others the family will pay for. Because belt loops are not usually done in a den setting, belt loops do not require a Den Leader signature. What your old Den Leader told you about not being able to sign off on belt loops is true. If your son earned the belt loops with the Den then the Leader could sign off on those, but he can't sign off for something he does not know about. What you could do is to copy the various requirement pages for the belt loops that your son has done on his own & check off the requirements that he did for each one. If he was involved in organized sports or did some thru school, it might help to get his teacher or coach to initial the requirements he did with them. Then sign it & give it to his current Den Leader. Of course, if your new Pack has the same rule as your old Pack (Pack purchases only 1 belt loop per year) then you will have to buy the rest yourself at your council Scout Shop. "...just breaks my heart every time someone earns an award and he does not receive one himself even though he completed the requirements." What awards are these? Your son has been in his new Webelos Den for almost 2 months now. He should be working on, & earning, the same kinds of things as the rest of his Den. You do realize, that in the Webelos program parents are no longer allowed (except for sepcific times) to sign off on their son's work. All work must be approved & signed off by the Den Leader or someone the Den Leader has assigned.

GSUSA does not "promote" or "support" the agenda of any group other than their own. The Girl Scout Law I will do my best to be honest and fair, friendly and helpful, considerate and caring, courageous and strong, and responsible for what I say and do, and to respect myself and others, respect authority, use resources wisely, make the world a better place, and be a sister to every Girl Scout. Girl Scouts is dedicated to every girl, everywhere.

OK Kristi, it sounds like even though, as CM, you are the only "real" person on the charter you have no actual authority to do anything about your problem. It seems that even alerting the COR to the fact that he was indeed the COR was beyond your authority. However, IMHO, unless you want to find/start a new Pack, your options are to sit back and watch as whats left of this Pack self destructs because you do not have the authority to do anything, or - do something. Get the CO & COR together & let them know unless they DO SOMETHING ASAP, they will no longer have a Cub Scout Pack to worry about. There is no time to "get to know the people". The CO's Pack is in a crisis situation RIGHT NOW. The Pack needs a CC & at least the minimal # of committee members & it needs them on the Charter NOW. If I were you I would let them know that unless this happens they will also have to look for a new CM because you CAN NOT work in a vacuum without any support. As for your Den/Pack meetings, get hold of the microphone & do NOT give it to him. You are the CM, that means YOU are the MC, ringmaster, Chief Babbler, whatever. At meetings, have one of the other Den parents deal with the Den while you are dealing with the Pack. Get on the mic & welcome the families, call up the boys for the flag ceremony. STAY ON STAGE NEARBY. After the flag ceremony grab the mic & release the boys to their Den meetings - quickly. If this guy trys to start announcing something, interrupt him. Thank him for his time & trouble, but sorry, this is now happening (whatever is next on the agenda for the evening) & he needs to sit down. He may be registered as something (although not CM or CC), but whatever it is, it doesn't mean a hill of beans because YOU, as registered CM, are in charge of the meeting! (You DO have that much authority!) Good Luck, & you might want to start shopping around for a new Pack, just in case this one implodes.

"so he asked the parents would they rather know right away who was still in the race or not know the winner till the end. They all want to know right away who is still in the race." Go with your system. Let the parents (& this ex-CM guy) know up front that this race is for the BOYS - not the parents, & the BOYS need to have FUN. Tell them that you will be happy to hold a single elimination race for parents only (no boys) at a later date, and if anyone wants to volunteer to put it together to see you after the boys are done having FUN at THEIR race! PS - Don't get stressed Kristi. Take deep breaths, practice your sympathtic smile & keep repeating - It's for the Boys! Have Fun!

Have them build "edible" campfires. This hands on excersise is fun, tasty & helps them remember the whys & ways of a campfire & campfire safety. Here is one version from Girl Scouts - You can change the materials around to suit your boys tastes : EDIBLE FIRE Materials: Napkins Paper cups to fill with water Cheerios Shredded coconut Potato sticks Pretzel logs Cinnamon hearts (red hots) One toothpick/girl Method: 1. Each girl should unfold her napkin and lay it nice and smooth to represent the clearing that has to be done in an area to make it safe to build a fire. Here you may go into as much detail as you feel your girls are ready for. Discuss safe places to build fires. 2. Clean your fire site with a rake. Fill the fire bucket and place nearby 3. Make a fire ring of cheerios. Again you may pause and talk about safety circle. It's a circle 5' out from the fire circle and kids aren't allowed to play or move faster than a walk while inside this circle. 4. Next you make three piles of firewood: coconut for the tinder, potato sticks for the kindling and pretzels for logs 5. Now you are ready to lay your fire: Lay an A or V of logs after you decide what direction the wind is blowing. Place the open end of the "A" facing the wind so the flame can get oxygen 6. Lay your tinder against the crossbar of the A or in the cross of V. As each girl is ready, she gets a toothpick for a match to hold in under the largest pile of tinder and you drop a few red hots on top to show that the fire is burning brightly, using just one match! 7. Then she places on more kindling and logs as the fire burns brighter. 8. Discuss How to put out clothing if it catches on fire, Stop, Drop and Roll How to put out a fire: Sprinkle water, not pouring the whole bucket on it. 9. After her fire has been approved by the leader she eats it all, leaving a clean fire site.

Yes. Because if the Patrol Leader does not know the answer he can then ask HIS Patrol Leader - the Senior Patrol Leader. That is how it should work.

Another thing that your Pack could do to help all of the Scouts is provide them with their scarf, slide, & handbook. We do that for all of our boys. The ones crossing to BS get the BS handbook, slide & red shoulder tabs (the scarf usually comes from the Troop).

Our CO has set aside some $ for our use if a Scout's family needs help purchasing a uniform. I have been with the Pack for 10 years now & we have never yet used the money. An option is to start a uniform closet with "experienced" uniforms. You could ask your local Troops if the boys have any old Cub uniforms or small tan uniforms that they could donate. Advertise for them in the local paper, in the bulletins at the local churches, and put up notes on grocery store bulletin boards. Ask your Pack families to help by checking out local yard/garage sales or flea markets. The Pack could reimburse them for the cost (which should be minimal). When you hand out the uniforms to the Scouts in need ask as a "payment" that they return them when they are outgrown. That will help keep the closet stocked.

Sounds like your new SM might have bit off more than he can chew. I would give the SM a call and talk to him. If you can't talk to him how will you be able to work with him? If you don't feel comfortable with that, give your Committee Chair a call & have your CC talk to him. Someone needs to start communicating with him NOW. BTW - Just a side note, your SM might have put his name on the waiting list for woodbadge, but until he completes his basic training, including outdoor skills, he is not eligible to attend.

Ummm - The patches are NOT iron-on. So what you inadvertently did was melt the plastic backing onto the shirt! After you get to Boy Scouts simply tack the Scout badge on the pocket. It will be coming off fairly soon to be replaced by the Tenderfoot, and on and on. PS - Make sure the new tan shirt is big enough. He will probably go thru one of those wonderful, instantaneous growth spurts in 6th or 7th grade & I think you have spent enough on shirts for a while!

foto - Some of the counties in the Chicago area have youth group campsites in their forest preserves that include cabins. This gives the non-tenters a nice option. Cooking as a Pack is not that much of a problem. As I said we use Kaper Charts that split the duties up nicely. We usually stick with "kid friendly" meals like burgers & dogs which are prepared on portable grills which are brought by some of the folks. We also have a pot luck type of thing with everyone signing up to bring some type of food for the weekend. As far as planning goes, the families let us know when they register the number of campers, when they will be arriving and leaving and what meals they will be there for. They also get a copy of the camp adgenda beforehand so they know what is happening when. Of course, we do not have 300 people at our campouts either. We usually average about 30 - 50.

Taking brand new Scouts on a semi-backpacking trip (coolers are not exactly backpacking equipment) as a first campout is not a good idea. Especially as none of the Scouts, old or new, seemed to understand how to properly dispose of human waste. From the Leave No Trace resources at the BSA National website: "Human Waste. Proper human waste disposal helps prevent the spread of disease and exposure to others. Catholes 6 to 8 inches deep in humus and 200 feet from water, trails, and campsites are often the easiest and most practical way to dispose of feces."

I think the idea of sticking it on a light weight fabric & then sewing it down will work well. You probably will not be moving any patches unless he goes thru a major growth spurt & out grows his blue shirt, but I would rather be safe than covered in Goo Gone! We did the sew a button elective with my Tigers & a couple of them actually did very well. Then there's my 16 yo son. He does try hard, but every seam he sews seems to come apart faster than he sews it! When he sews on a badge he is lucky if it makes it to the meeting before self destructing!

Not a race, but a drop. The Egg Drop is interesting and can be as simple or as complicated as you want it. The race seems to have more potential for limited indoor areas & possibly be less messy. Let us know what you come up with!