ScoutNut

I agree with PNScouter, if the time is correct, have whoever can make that time from your Troop do the check-in & the rest of you get there when you can. Meanwhile, call your council & let them know how you feel about this.

Webelos are NOT Boy Scouts. If they were then they would be part of a Boy Scout Troop and not a Cub Scout Pack. If you follow the advice of the person you talked to at your council then once they earn the Webelos Rank they would automaticaly move into a Boy Scout Troop, become Boy Scouts & do all the things Boy Scouts do. Although Tiger & Webelos are set apart a bit from Wolf & Bear they are still ALL in the Cub Scout program, NOT the Boy Scout program. Boy Scouts say the BOY Scout Promise, Law & Motto. Tigers, Wolves, Bears, & Webelos say the CUB Scout Promise, Law & Motto. There is NO BSA reference that states that Webelos should REPLACE the Cub versions with the Scout versions at Pack & Council activites once they earn their Webelos rank. There are many however, that state the Webelos should KNOW the Scout versions & PRACTICE them. This is simply another local tradition that does not follow the BSA program.

There is no reason that you can not incorporate the popcorn sale into program and still earn money. The Girl Scouts do it with their cookies. Selling anything, weather it is something you make yourself or something readymade, can teach a lot of different skills. Finances Budgeting Goal Setting Public Speaking Salesmenship Marketing Merchandising Then there is the service aspect if the boys help on their council's popcorn delivery & return days. (BTW - People pay to attend a pancake breakfast so the breakfast itself is not service. Working the breakfast might be service to your troop, but that's it)

The official word is the current issue (2003) of the Wolf Handbook. Nowhere in the handbook does it say that unused achievements can be used for electives. Nowhere in the handbook is there even a place to mark an achievement as an elective. It says to earn arrow points they have to complete 10 ELECTIVE projects. In contrast, the Bear Handbook very specificaly says that complete achievements not used towards the Bear rank can be used as arrow point electives. In the Bear Trail achievement section they have 2 lines for Akela's approval, 1 for the Bear Trail & 1 for the Arrow Point Trail. The trackers are incorrect. If there is a question, always go by the BSA publication and not the outside source. Hope this helps.

"Seattle Pioneer, seems you and National had the same idea in this respect." No, they don't. Seattle wants to have 1 meeting where all the new scouts from all of the various dens come together and run thru the Bobcat requirements. Then, after that ONE meeting, they would tell parents to sign off on the requirements, consider Bobcat to be earned, and receive it at that month's Pack meeting. National gives you a whole month's (4) worth of meetings for both Cubs & Webelos. There are a variety of activites including games, creating Den rules , & practicing the Bobcat requirements at EACH MEETING. This is a program of ongoing reinforcement in the Den meetings of what they should be learning at home with their parents. Not just a one time - one day thing.

In the Bear Handbook it states that unused parts of achievements that were used for the Bear badge may NOT be counted towards arrow points. So if he used A-F as a Bear rank achievement then G-L can not be used as electives.

No, there is knot! To learn more about knots: http://usscouts.org/awards/knots2.html

By far, the majority of new Cub Scouts are Tigers. Tigers do not earn Bobcat before Tiger. After practicing the Promise, Law, Sign, Handshake, Motto, & Salute all year at Den & Pack meetings, they are almost at Bobcat by the time they graduate to Wolf Cub Scout. About all that they have left are the things they have to do with their parents. For the Cubs that come in new at other levels, it is a simple matter to practice the Bobcat items at Den meetings and at home. Most earn Bobcat in a month & receive it at their first Pack meeting. Formalized Bobcat training is unnecessary.

"FScouter and Scoutnut, it may just be me, but the "tone" of your last posts seem to have an edge to them." I realize that jteamnmj was asking for help, but there are plenty of myths, urban legends, & just plain wrong info out there. Jteamnmj was looking for sources that contradicted what she "saw everywhere". Not knowing exactly what she was reading, I thought it best to let her (& all lukers who might be scouting newbies) know that every BSA source I found (online & easily assessible to all) stated the opposite of what she was seeing. As for my "tone", since I usually squeeze posts into free moments at work, I just had time to post the info only, not for pleasent chit chat. BTW - Check your own tone before you begin chastising others about theirs. JTEAMNMJ - I'm glad you found a hard copy source to show your committee. I would advise you get written parental permission before you start working with knives with the boys. Some parents might not be to keen on pocketknives for 1st or 2nd (or even 3rd/4th) graders.

If there was enough money left over to buy toys for every boy from a toy store (instead of cheapie $1 store), than there must have been a significant amount. I would not confront the Den Leaders about the differences in the toys. A better approach would be to talk to your CC (since the CC is responsible for the business end of things) about ways to use leftover Den dues. The CC could then discuss the subject with all Den Leaders at your next Committee meeting. One suggestion might be that left over Den monies be carried over to the next year so that Leaders do not have to wait for Den dues to come in, or use their own money. This approach would take the issue from a personal one for you to a business one for the Pack.

I have not found a whole lot of ready made graduation ceremonies for the whole Pack. What I usually do is take rank advancement ceremonies that I like and adapt them (basically re-write). You can keep it pretty basic by talking about Aklea and/or Scout Spirit. Then call each den up & do a short thing about what they have done this year. Ask them if they are ready for the challenges waiting for them at their new level. Give them whatever it is you give them and there you go. You can add a wrap up comment at the end if you want. If you want to get fancier, face painting is always fun. You add a different symbol to the boy for each level. Then the various "magic" ceremonies like water changing color if the boys are ready to change levels. Glowing ceremony, burning neckerchief, etc. Another one my Pack liked was the Cub-O-Matic. You put the scouts in a machine at one level & they come out another level. We combined this with crossover to Boy Scouts one year and added a Scout-O-Matic to the Cub one so they went into the Cub machine & came out the Scout one.

"on all the chip requirements I can only find that it says bears and up" If the Whittling Chip card you have says that then you have an old, outdated card. The most current card (# 34223A) makes no mention of any specific rank. "Everywhere I look it says that you have to be a bear to earn the chip." Then you are not looking at current BSA publications. Nowhere, in any current BSA publication, does it say that the Whittling Chip is RESTRICTED to Bears or older.

Sorry Committee Member, you are incorrect. Tigers, Wolves, & Bears are Cub Scouts. Webelos are Webelos Scouts. Boy Scouts are Boy Scouts. Even though they are called Webelos Scouts & not Cubs, Webelos are still in the Cub Scout program, NOT Boy Scouts. They have to learn about the aspects of the Boy Scout program, NOT start using them at all Cub Scout activites. They can also not start calling themselves a Patrol just because they have taken a name & wear a patch. They would still be a Den. Perhaps the "Flaming Star" Den, but a Den none the less.

While earning the Whittling Chip card is a requirement to earning "Shavings & Chips" in the Bear handbook, it is NOT a requirement to earning the Bear rank. "Shavings & Chips" is 1 achievement out of 11 under the "Self" category. In that category they only need to earn 4. They do not HAVE to earn "Shavings & Chips". According to the Guide to Safe Scouting's Age-Appropriate Guidelines, pocketknives ARE appropriate for ALL ages & ranks from Tiger on up. In order to carry a pocketknife to scout functions the scout should earn the Whittling Chip. Therefore, the Whittling Chip CAN be earned by ALL ages & ranks. If a boy earns his Whittling Chip before he is a Bear, & wants to do "Shavings & Chips" he should talk to his leader to make sure that he can count it. Personaly, I would not have a problem with it because by earning "Shavings & Chips" he is effectively re-earning his Whittling Chip.

From the online Youth Protection Training: "Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents or misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit." In other words - the parents should be involved in every level of discussion about the child & his problem behaviour. At the campout the boy should have apologized to the girls, the younger scouts & the ASM. The SM could have had a conference with him to discuss why his behaviour was inappropriate. Once home, the parents should have been called in for a conference to discuss possible repercussions.

Per BSA policy, the only dens that are allowed to take the name of a patrol animal are Webelos. They are allowed to drop den numbers & become the Webelos "Dragon" Den (NOT patrol). As Semper stated, den flags are pretty much whatever the den decides on. Some purchase them from BSA. Some do handmade ones that range from very fancy to an old pillow case. When my son was going thru Cubs we did a new flag (more a banner really) each year. With my Tigers I have one banner that I change numbers/names on each year.

For Tiger, Wolf & Bear, parents are considered "akelas" or leaders for the purpose of approving completed achievements & electives. Cub Scouts is centered in the family and at the Wolf & Bear level most of the work on rank achievements should be done at home with the family. When the scout becomes a Webelos the emphasis changes and it is the den leader (or den leader approved adult) who is responsible for approving accomplishments. Realistically, there are some parents that will work non-stop with their sons & some that will almost never open the book. What works well is to go thru the Wolf handbook and decide what you want to do together as a den. Then write up a den newletter telling your families that you are planning on doing XYZ achievements in den meetings and that they are responsible for working at home on the remainder. Send out updates, changes, & reminders regularly. Check out park & forest preserve districts, museums, conservatories, botanical gardens, business, etc in your area. Many will either already have scout programs or will be willing to put something together for you. Keep them out of the "classroom" as much as possible. When you are not working on achievements or electives (Wolf & Bear are separate) you should be working on preparing for the monthly Pack meeting and having fun. Adult Partners are strictly a Tiger thing. As the boys get older they are given more independence. Some leaders still require parents to stay for meetings, some do not. I feel that with a regular sized den (6-8) 1 den leader & 1 asst den leader is good enough. What you can do is give out a parent survey to see what skills your parents have. Then have them work with the den on the achievement that fits those skills. Get trained, buy the handbook, attend your Pack's Committee meetings, attend your Council's Roundtable's. HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!

What don't you know about OA? Other than the password for the forum & a few bits & pieces about a ceremony, that is. And I'm sure, with the internet being what it is, that you could discover those with a just a bit of searching. Is it that members have to be elected? The mayor of your town is elected. A Troop's Patrol Leaders are elected. Does that make them all members of a secret society? Yes, like all elections everywhere, there is politics involved, some times it is simply a popularity contest, & sometimes things happen that are not fair. That is life. Personally, I would rather have elections than the alternative. All of the OA work weekends at my council's camps are open to anyone who wants to attend. You are more than welcome to come if you wish.

Monday my son was talking to a boy at lunch about how tired he was from cutting trees in rain and snow showers all weekend. The boy asked him why he was doing that & he answered that it was a "Boy Scout thing". The boy then looked at him and asked "Ordeal or Brotherhood". Floored, because he had no idea this kid was a Scout, he told him he had done his Ordeal. Turns out the boy was Brotherhood. He slaps my son on the shoulder & says "Welcome to BSA's Slave Labor Forces"! Now he WAS just kidding, but the point of OA IS "Cheerful Service" & promoting Council camping. Not as a "secret society" to make people feel better about themselves.

Contact the Chief Seattle Council : http://www.seattlebsa.org/Default.htm They can give you info on the closest Crew.

As far as I know none of our dens will be having regular meetings during the summer months. We will be having 1 or 2 Pack activites each month. June - Minor League ball game, Rocket Shoot July - Pack Family Camping, Fishing Derby (tenative) August - Cub Day Camp, Pack picnic Boys & their families are encouraged to work in their handbooks during the summer months. I am the Tiger Den Leader. My boys will be moving on to Wolf with their new leader!

Family campouts are a fine thing. Who was the teenage boy the teenage sister was caught making out with? Did she bring her boyfriend along? Was he a big brother of a Cub? It takes 2 to tango as the saying goes & he should have been brought to task also. The 3am screaming should have been handled at 3am by the person in charge of the campout (BALOO trained individual). The father, daughter, & stray teenage boy should have all been talked to at that time. If the mother does have a criminal record she would never have passed National's background check. That leads me to believe she was never convicted of anything. Why did your Charter Organization Rep (COR) accept her application? As for the Cub Scout, if he was caught, on 2 different occasions, being "intimate" with other children, why was nothing done by the parents of the children? How do you know for sure this even really happened? You can not judge this child by the actions of his family and gossip. All you can do is to make sure you are following YP guidelines at every step & keep a close eye on him. Your UC is correct, it is the responsibilty of the COR, along with the CC (Committee Chair) & the Committee to provide capable leadership for the unit, while it is the Cubmaster (CM) who approves youth membership. A CO can not be forced to accept, or keep, the membership of any youth or adult. Your Committee & CO can ask the family to leave the Pack, but they can do nothing to stop them from joining another one. Unless the council, & National, can somehow manage to be convinced to withdraw the whole families BSA membership completly. This is what it sounds like you would like to happen. I think you should wait and see what your DE has to say on the matter.

Please remember that all swimming activity must be supervised by someone who has been trained in BSA Safe Swim Defense.

To take just your Webelos den camping you do not need to have a BALOO trained leader. You also, don't need a WOLT (Webelos Outdoor Leader Training) trained leader, although it would be VERY helpful. What you do need is a parent or another responsible adult for every Webelos. A single leader can NOT take a Webelos den camping by themselves. Camping with the entire Pack is family camping and, like Webelos den camping, a single leader can NOT take all of the boys in the Pack camping by themselves.

It sounds like the Service Units that you have been in are run a bit differently than any of the ones I know of. Most troops stay together and move up levels as a group. So, while you may loose or gain some girls, the majority of the girls in the troop are the same as the ones from the previous year. The money earned during any money earning activity goes, not to the individual, but to the entire troop. This money is used to pay for everything the troop does and everything the troop needs to purchase (awards, supplies, etc). At the end of every school year (June 15) each troop has to fill out a financial report to give to their council. In this report they have to show all incoming money and list all expenses incurred since their last report. On our financial reports there is a section that asks what plans the girls have for the remaining balance and that's it. If the balance is very large council might question why. Usually the only reason for carrying over a large balance is if the girls are saving for a trip. I looked on your council's website and noticed that the financial report form used by Girl Scouts-Hawaii Council doesn't even ask about the girl's plans. Aside from income & expenses all it asks for is the amount of cash on hand as of June 15. This being the case, I am not sure why you have had such problems with your troop carrying a balance in their account. I can understand why your suggestion for the Service Units to set the sales goals for their troops was not acted on. That is against GSUSA program goals. Basically not their job. The cookie sale, besides being a major money earner for both troop & council, is a Girl Scout PROGRAM activity. The girls (from 1st grade thru 12th grade) are the ones who should be setting the sales goals for their troop. They should decide what they want to do during the year, find out how much it will cost, add in regular troop operating costs & then figure out how many boxes of cookies the troop (and each girl) will need to sell to achieve this. From 1st grade the girls should be learning about budgets, short term & long term planning, finances, goal setting, taking responsibility for their troop, marketing, public speaking, and much more. It has NEVER been about JUST selling cookies.