ScoutNut

I have heard that done with tokens or beads. Many people say it has worked well for them. One question - What were the Tiger Partners doing while their Tigers were misbehaving? Since the Adult Partners do all activites right along side their Tiger, there usually isn't a whole lot in the way of misbehaving at Tiger meetings.

My son's (16yo) take on the subject, after a few moments of thought, was that the 2 organizations (BSA & GSUSA) work fine the way they are. They act like sifters or sorters. They start out with lots & lots of Daisies & Tigers. Then by the time they are Juniors & Webelos they have lost quite a few who really weren't interested. Once you get to Cadettes & Boy Scouts you loose more to school & sports. Finally, by the middle or end of HS, you are left with those boys & girls who REALLY like, and want to be in, Scouts. These will come together & join a Venturing Crew. Sometimes I have trouble deciding if he is serious or not! On the subject of "hanky panky" he said the only guys who have that on the brain 24/7 are those who listen to to much of that "crappy rap where the only lyrics are those about how badly women should be treated." Maybe he's NOT a pod person from the planet Crazy Teen after all!!

A few thoughts: First, I don't know ANY females, young or old, who camp naked. Maybe in other areas of the country, but I highly doubt it. Second, Most youth that I know, hormones or not, aren't stupid. If all they want is sex they can find/do that anywhere. They know that there is a time & place for everything & it isn't Scouts. Third, hacimsaalk12, I sure hope your parents read this forum & realize they might have a problem on their hands. I hope you at least practice safe "hanky-panky". Whatever do you plan to do when you go away to college? There will be "naked girls" next door, or at the very least down the hall. I am sorry, but you do not sound like you have very much respect for either young women or yourself.

Speaking from the perspective of a "ScoutNut", you bettcha! We are all a bit "insane" on the subject of scouting. All you have to do is look at some of the posts here! InsaneScouter has been around for quite a while and is a great resource.

Actually FScouter, that was the first thing that came to my mind also. Surely the Curator of Collections has (or can get o hold of) a list of people who attended the breakfast. Even if there were a couple hundred people present, they should be able to dig up some volunteers from Circle Ten Council to call everyone. Asking the parents of the missing car makers to do their legwork for them when they don't have any info is ludicrous. Kristi, I would give the museum another call ask for the list of attendees. Since they don't sound like they are in any particular hurry to track down the missing cars (they do have others after all), they could at least give you a bit more to go on than just "contact your local council". I don't blame you at all for being hot!

Kittle - T is right, your son should ask his PL who can ok his requirements & how advancement works. Each Troop is a bit different, but basically once the requirements for a rank are all signed off (by whoever the SM has approved to do the signing) your son then asks his SM for a SM conference, once he has his SM conference signed off he then requests a Board of Review. His new rank starts the date of his successful BOR. He should receive recognition of this (& probably his rank patch) in front of the Troop at their next Court of Honor (COH). He is no longer in Cub Scouts anymore Dorothy! One more thing to keep in mind. Unlike Cubs, he can work on advancement requirements from more than one level at a time. For instance even though he has not received Tenderfoot, he can still work on compass for 2nd Class. At summer camp many of the 1st & 2nd Class swimming requirements can be done. Merit badges can be worked on at any time.

dlearyous - The Wolf cooking a meal outdoors is usually done in the family backyard on a grill. The Webelos doing outdoor cooking is building a campfire & cooking on the fire. Or learning about camp stoves & cooking on a campstove. Or a Dutch Oven, or a Buddy Burner, or a Box Oven, etc. It is cooking outdoors vs outdoor cooking. The Wolf is just starting to learn. The Webelos has progressed further & is getting ready for Boy Scouts when he will be cooking & camping on his own.

The handbooks spell it out pretty well. Everything in Scouting is progressive & age appropriate. When you look thru the Tiger, Wolf, Bear, & Webelos handbooks you will see that in many cases you have the same requirements in each book. Each level has requirements for food, flag, music, health, sports, etc. Even in Boy Scouts they have requirements for many of the same things they did as Cubs. Does that mean that a 15 year old is doing the same things as a 6 year old? Of course not. Does a Bear repeat the same stuff he did as a Tiger or Wolf? Nope. Tigers don't have a clue about campfires & shouldn't be lighting one. They go on hikes & picnics & make Ants on a Log. Wolfs start planning & learning the basics of cooking. They might know how to start their family grill, but not a campfire. Bears are now baking and getting more creative with their cooking. They are starting to learn about the basics of what it takes to live & cook outdoors. Webelos are the Big Guys of the Cub world and are becoming more & more independent. Cooking at home is old hat now and they are venturing into the world of camping big time. They are learning how to build, take care of, and cook with, a SAFE campfire. They are starting to learn to work together as a den & what it will be like to camp as a Boy Scout. So you see, it's not confusing. It is Progressive & Age Appropriate. It is following the BSA program.

Your DE will not know you need roundup flyers printed up if you do not call and ask for them. A DE does not have the time to personally call every CM/SM/ETC, multiple times. Units have to send people to Kickoff meetings, Roundtables, Pow Wows, etc. Units have to send people to their council office/shop to pick up their unit's mail & any event/info flyers. Even if the Trainings are badly run & Roundtables are not very helpfull, units should still send people. Why? Because even if the content is not that good it gives you a chance to get to know people (paid & unpaid, experienced & new) and ask questions. Network. A Webelos Transition Coordinator is a wonderful idea. What happens if the district creates the position & then can not find someone to volunteer to fill it? The district wide Troop open house for Webelos is a GREAT idea! What happens if none of the Troops in the District care enough to participate? What happens if the Troops participate, but the Packs can't be bothered to bring boys? Will this be the district failing the troops & packs? Or will it be the troops & packs failing to work with the district? Whose fault is it if the council shop carries training videos & books, but the units new leaders don't ever go to the shop? To say that a unit will fold simply because of a bad district is unrealistic & passing the buck. It is a 2-way street. If the units do not make the effort to utilize the resources (however good or bad) their council & district provides, they really can't complain that their district is not serving them. If the units do not make the effort to help & work with the district the district can not help them effectively. Scoutndad - I think your idea to volunteer at a the district level is a good one. It will be a great experience for you, and give you the opportunity to help scouts & look at things from a different perspective. You might still find yourself frustrated, but at least you will know you are trying to make a difference. I really enjoy it, even when events & things don't work out quite the way you would have liked them to, & have met some wonderful Scouters over the years!

I am sure it is in the various Leader Books and other BSA publications. I do not have the specific literature numbers, names & pages in front of me. You can get some info here: http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-507.html What position in the Unit do you hold? Not a lot of info to work with here. Talk to your Cubmaster, Scoutmaster or Crew Advisor if you can't talk to the CC. If you can't talk to them then call your council to find out who your Unit Commissioner is and contact him/her. If that won't work, talk to your District Commissioner.

"Maybe the question is how to get adults to read." ROFL! Barry, I think you have hit on one of the main problems in our world today. The other main problem in the Scouting community is leaders who refuse to aknowledge that BSA has changed in the last 85 years. The terms "But It's Always Been Done This Way" & "It's A Tradition" drive me crazy! Course, maybe that's why they don't read. They don't WANT to find out what they should really be doing!.

Thanks for a great job OGE !

The Charter Organization Rep (COR) is appointed by, and can only be removed by the head of the Charter Org he is a representative for. If your unit has a problem with it's COR, your Committee Chair (CC) should talk to the head of your Chartering Organization. The only other way would be if a COR had done something bad enough (illegal, abuse, etc) that the council's Scout Executive (SE) pulled their National BSA registration. (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

I can't believe no one picked up on this. OMG - TIGERS lighting campfires!!!!! Whatever were you thinking??? I realize that you know little about Cub Scouts, & the Age Appropriate Guidelines don't mean a lot to you, but TIGERS lighting campfires? Even with "supervision" - come on! To all of you brand new Cub Scout Lukers out there - DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!!!

"Yeah sure OK volunteers make the organization from top down, but who monitors this and determines the effectiveness?" Ultimately the SE. Before that the District Commissioner & the District Executive. " Fledgling den/pack leaders NEED the District for guidance and training." Yes, training is one of the many ways that councils support their Units. Most council's will include all training dates on their website and their newsletter. Like events, you are not locked into taking the training ONLY from your District or council. Also, many councils, IF APPROACHED by the Unit, will make the effort to bring needed training directly to the Unit. It is up to the Unit to let their new leaders know what their resources are & where to find them. It is also up to the new leader to actively seek out info & not wait for it to be handed to them on a platter. "But what about the Districts responsibilty to coordinate with the Packs and Units?" Coordinate what? Training? Events? Registration? School talks? Coordinate how? Newsletters? Flyers at Roundtables? Verbal announcements at Roundtables? Announcements on websites? Flyers in Unit mailboxes? Emails to Unit CM/CC? Personal phone calls to every registered adult? I am not really sure what it is that you want from your District. From what I can tell, the services that you want are probably there, somewhere, but your Unit is just not utilizing them. Your District and/or council can not force units to attend training, roundtables or events. They can not force people to receive the council newsletter or read the council website. DE's just do not have the time to call every Scouter in their District & personally invite them to things. How depressing do you think it is for Roundtable Commissioners to work all month pulling together great presentations, only to have 2 Units out of 50 show up? After many years, my District finally had a Webelos Day. They never held one before because they could not get enough volunteers to run it. It's looking more & more like my council will not be holding a National Youth Leadership Training (NYLT) course for Boy Scouts this year. Why? Because they can not find a Scoutmaster who will volunteer to run it.

You are not locked into ONLY attending those events put on by your district. Your Pack can attend any events, in any district, & even in any council, it wants to. If your council has a newsletter, sign up to receive it. If they have an email newsletter, even better. Keep an eye on your council's website. Most council's will have some kind of ongoing events listing or calendar. You said "I have also asked that our Cubmaster (or a designated attendee) attend the monthly roundtable meetings but to no avail.". Why haven't YOU attended? You also said "I can't help think that without aid of a strong District, we may lose the interest of young scouts to come". Why? A strong district is nice. A lot of council events is nice too. However a strong district will NOT make up for a bad to mediocre program at the Unit level. Likewise, a lackluster district should NOT affect a Unit with a strong program. There are plenty of resources out there, your district is only one of many. BTW - In most cases, a district is only as good as the volunteers it has working with it. Those district events don't put themselves on, district volunteers do. As for your request for Boy Scout Troop info from your district, call your DE. Or better yet, call your DE & make an appointment to come in & talk to him & pick up the list.

We do it pretty much the same way. We have an old pattern & whoever has a sewing machine & knows how to use it gets the job of whipping up the vests. We give them out at our September Pack meeting as our welcome gift along with the council patch for the back, their scarf & slide. No service or good turns required! We also use segments around the council patch for just about everything we do. Every leader has a copy of the segment list & includes any they need for den activites on their monthly report to our advancement person. The Pack will pay for any patches associated with a Cub Scout activity. Many boys will also include any patches they receive at outside activites as well. For instance, patches from places visited during summer vacations, State Park Junior Ranger patches earned, & patches from participating in Girl Scout activites with their sisters.

Hey Rob, glad I could help! Those pics look great! Don't worry about a low turnout. As long as the kids that were there had a great time, that's what counts. Get them all a fun patch for their vest (or whatever they use) & make a big deal when you present it to them at your next Pack meeting! When the other kids hear how much fun it was they will make sure to make it next year. Speaking of next year, check this out: http://www.kids-fishing.com/ It is sponsored by Wal-Mart. They send you a nice big box of all sorts of give aways.

Things you should have done differently - Taken training 2 years ago Encouraged other leaders (including CM) to get trained What you should do this month - Get all of the committe members that you have & the COR (Charter Org Rep) together again ASAP. Go over a membership list & decide who to approach to be den leaders & committee members. Go visit each person you have targeted & ask them personaly. It does not matter if you have 100 boys, without leaders your Pack is sunk. You need committed, trained leaders NOW. Once you have commitments from people have them do the online Fast Start training: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/faststart/ Then have them take the online Youth Prtection training: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/ypt/ypt.jsp Then have them commit to taking the rest of their training as soon as your council offers it (does not have to be in your district only). Have these people help you plan & run any other summer activites you do. Get on your Council's and District's e-mail list. Many send out e-mail newsletters which will keep you up to date on what is happening. In August your District should be having kickoff meetings. Find out when & where & get as many of your leaders to go as possible. Also in August, get your leaders & committee members together again to plan your Pack calendar for the upcoming year. Include on your calendar monthly Pack meetings & monthly committee meetings. You can have some events that will "TBA" or "More Info Later", but most of your times & places should be figured out then. ASAP after school starts do registration rallies at whatever schools you would pull boys from. Sign up a Tiger leader & get them trained! Use you parents & form committees to do specific things. Even once a year things like Blue & Gold. HAVE FUN! Make sure the boys & their families have FUN! PS) One thought, you said you were planning a campout this weekend. While I hope you have fun, know that unless you have a BALOO trained person & Youth Protection trained person with you & have filed a Local Tour Permit, you are not covered under BSA insurance should something happen. Everyone is covered by their own personal insurance only.

The Age-Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activities is an appendix to the Guide to Safe Scouting. http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf If you look under Outdoor Skills, Cooking Outdoors & Fire Building are both recommended for Webelos & above. Personaly, I would not have Tigers, Wolves or Bears cooking pancakes on camp stoves. Not only is it against BSA guidelines, but even with their parent right next to them, there is to great a possibility for a bad burn to happen. The Cubs can help prepare the food for cooking. They can crack eggs, mix batter, carry stuff, set tables, set out food, tear off foil, etc. Foil packets are fine. They can make up their foil packets and hand them to a Webelos Scout or older to actualy place them on the fire. They should not do the actual cooking. Cub Scouting is family oriented & age appropriate progression. Let the Cubs wait until they are Webelos to do camp cooking. It will give them something to look forward to. (This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

Be very careful when allowing Cubs to cook outdoors. According to BSA's Age Appropriate Guidelines for Scouting Activites, outdoor cooking is restricted to Webelos level & higher.

Pack camping is Family Camping. The whole family (even sibs) should be involved in EVERYTHING. Once we get a firm list of who is going to be at camp when, we make up kaper charts. The families of every den are mixed up so that they get a chance to know each other better. Set-up, preparation, & cleanup for each meal all weekend is included on the chart (along with various other duties). It is not up to either the Pack BALOO trained person, the Pack leadership, or the Unit Commissioner to be the cook for everyone. Breakfast on Sunday depends largely on what we will be doing & when we are leaving. If we don't want to spend a lot of time on breakfast we will have cold cereal, juice, coffee, milk, fruit & muffins. If we have more time we will do a more involved breakfast like Eggs in a Bag, Breakfast Burritos, or pancakes & sausages.

Some council's require that the main leader in a troop be female, but other than that dad's are welcome to volunteer in any capcity they wish. The problem is that for some reason dad's do not often WANT to volunteer for Girl Scouts. I guess the concept of GIRL Scouts is just to, I don't know, "girly" for some dads. Unfortunately, this means that very few male GSUSA volunteers are seen by the public (& the leaders, girls & their families). This has the effect of making dads who would like to volunteer, feel that they can't, & of making girls families somewhat wary of the dads that do. Your daughter's Scouting experience is every bit as important as your son's. Sign up today! You will be glad you did!

Boys are encouraged to work in their handbooks over the summer. The families are given a list of achievements that are planned to be done with the den. All others are family responsibility. Boys are expected to bring books to den meetings. Before each Pack meeting the boys books are collected and brought home so that all items signed by parents or done in den meetings can be initialed/dated by den leader and then transfered to den leader records. Periodicly, notes are sent home with outstanding family done achievements listed. This is how I ran my son's den thru Cub's & how I run my Tigers now. With the exception that the Tiger achievements are already broken up into den & family in their handbook.

First off get yourself an Assistant Den Leader. With 8 boys that active you need another Leader. Then sit all the boys down and help them come up with a list of Den Rules & Consequences. Write them on a poster board, have them up at every meeting, & FOLLOW THRU with the consequences. Good Luck!